indexing slipping (force SRAM)

I've been having problems with my rear derailleur system where the indexing seems to be slipping on its own.

It's a SRAM force with a 10 cog cassette.

That is, shifting becomes funky and I hear that sound when I shift. I often have to over-push the paddles to get onto a larger cog. Eventually I can't get onto the largest cog at all. (This in fact caused some consternation on one steep pitch!) Other gears might skip or the cog drops down to the next smaller one.

I've dealt with this by turning the indexing barrel counter-clockwise which temporarily fixes the problem.

It's gotten worse and worse. The cable and housing were replaced last year.. When this problem started a couple of months ago out of the blue in my various attempts to deal with it I've both tightened and loosened the derailleur cable.

I've never seen a problem like this before in all my years (and they are many!).

Any suggestions/help/whatever most appreciated! Thx.

On 5/19/2013 6:44 PM, yirgster wrote:
I've been having problems with my rear derailleur system where the indexing seems to be slipping on its own.

It's a SRAM force with a 10 cog cassette.

That is, shifting becomes funky and I hear that sound when I shift. I often have to over-push the paddles to get onto a larger cog. Eventually I can't get onto the largest cog at all. (This in fact caused some consternation on one steep pitch!) Other gears might skip or the cog drops down to the next smaller one.

I've dealt with this by turning the indexing barrel counter-clockwise which temporarily fixes the problem.

It's gotten worse and worse. The cable and housing were replaced last year. When this problem started a couple of months ago out of the blue in my various attempts to deal with it I've both tightened and loosened the derailleur cable.

I've never seen a problem like this before in all my years (and they are many!).

Any suggestions/help/whatever most appreciated! Thx.


check all plastic endcaps , your outer cable is probably pushing through
one of them

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

Thx. But do you mean the several ferrules of the housing? Otherwise the cable is clamped at the derailleur and held by the cable end blib in the lever..


On Sunday, May 19, 2013 1:33:05 PM UTC-7, m-gineering wrote:
On 5/19/2013 6:44 PM, yirgster wrote:

I've been having problems with my rear derailleur system where the indexing seems to be slipping on its own.



It's a SRAM force with a 10 cog cassette.



That is, shifting becomes funky and I hear that sound when I shift. I often have to over-push the paddles to get onto a larger cog. Eventually I can't get onto the largest cog at all. (This in fact caused some consternation on one steep pitch!) Other gears might skip or the cog drops down to the next smaller one.



I've dealt with this by turning the indexing barrel counter-clockwise which temporarily fixes the problem.



It's gotten worse and worse. The cable and housing were replaced last year. When this problem started a couple of months ago out of the blue in my various attempts to deal with it I've both tightened and loosened the derailleur cable.



I've never seen a problem like this before in all my years (and they are many!).



Any suggestions/help/whatever most appreciated! Thx.





check all plastic endcaps , your outer cable is probably pushing through

one of them



--

/Marten



info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

On Sunday, May 19, 2013 10:41:00 PM UTC-4, yirgster wrote:
Thx. But do you mean the several ferrules of the housing? Otherwise the cable is clamped at the derailleur and held by the cable end blib in the lever.





On Sunday, May 19, 2013 1:33:05 PM UTC-7, m-gineering wrote:

On 5/19/2013 6:44 PM, yirgster wrote:



I've been having problems with my rear derailleur system where the indexing seems to be slipping on its own.







It's a SRAM force with a 10 cog cassette.







That is, shifting becomes funky and I hear that sound when I shift. I often have to over-push the paddles to get onto a larger cog. Eventually I can't get onto the largest cog at all. (This in fact caused some consternation on one steep pitch!) Other gears might skip or the cog drops down to the next smaller one.







I've dealt with this by turning the indexing barrel counter-clockwise which temporarily fixes the problem.







It's gotten worse and worse. The cable and housing were replaced last year. When this problem started a couple of months ago out of the blue in my various attempts to deal with it I've both tightened and loosened the derailleur cable.







I've never seen a problem like this before in all my years (and they are many!).







Any suggestions/help/whatever most appreciated! Thx.











check all plastic endcaps , your outer cable is probably pushing through



one of them







--



/Marten







info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

If you have plastic end caps check ALL of them even the ones at the bar shifter and the derailleur. If they haven't failed yet they will at some time. I'd replace them asap. Look for and binding anywhere in the cable run and or kinks in the housing.

Index housing has the strands running the lenth of the housing not wound in a spiral like brake housing. This can put a lot of pressure from a strand onto the ferrule which eventually gets penetrated by the housing strand. Plastic ferrules are NOT recommended for index shifting and I don't know why they are supplied with housing. I always use metal ferrules.

Good luck. I hope it's just a housing ferrule issue and not a shifter parts failure.

Cheers

On 5/19/2013 7:41 PM, yirgster wrote:
Thx. But do you mean the several ferrules of the housing? Otherwise the cable is clamped at the derailleur and held by the cable end blib in the lever.

This is not enough. The very idea of Bowden cable is that it operates
relative to the cable housing, not to the external superstructure (like
bicycle frame). For the bicycle cable to remain under proper tension it
has to be clamped at both ends and also it has to be properly supported
by the cable housing along curved segments. If the ferrules at the cable
hosing ends are broken, the housing will "give" (i.e. shorten) under
loads and ruin the cable tension.

This is typically a big problem with cheap OEM "tin can" ferrules on
brake cables. Braking loads rip them apart very quickly, which results
in mushy brakes.

Shifter ferrules last longer, due to lower loads, but for the very same
reason they often have even lower quality (like plastic ones). So, it is
a very good idea to use good quality metal ferrules for both brake and
shifter cable housings.

Check the derailleur dropout alignment. If it is not vertical, then its
in/out movement will not be consistent with the cog spacing on the
cassette.

There's a shop tool to measure this and make adjustments. However, you
can usually get by with putting an allen key in the derailleur to use as
leverage to bend the dropout.

It's usually a good idea to have a spare sacrificial dropout handy, in
case you break off the dropout in the process of adjusting it.

"Sir Ridesalot" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, May 19, 2013 10:41:00 PM UTC-4, yirgster wrote:
Thx. But do you mean the several ferrules of the housing? Otherwise the
cable is clamped at the derailleur and held by the cable end blib in the
lever.





On Sunday, May 19, 2013 1:33:05 PM UTC-7, m-gineering wrote:

On 5/19/2013 6:44 PM, yirgster wrote:



I've been having problems with my rear derailleur system where the
indexing seems to be slipping on its own.







It's a SRAM force with a 10 cog cassette.







That is, shifting becomes funky and I hear that sound when I shift. I
often have to over-push the paddles to get onto a larger cog.
Eventually I can't get onto the largest cog at all. (This in fact
caused some consternation on one steep pitch!) Other gears might skip
or the cog drops down to the next smaller one.







I've dealt with this by turning the indexing barrel counter-clockwise
which temporarily fixes the problem.







It's gotten worse and worse. The cable and housing were replaced
last year. When this problem started a couple of months ago out of
the blue in my various attempts to deal with it I've both tightened
and loosened the derailleur cable.







I've never seen a problem like this before in all my years (and they
are many!).







Any suggestions/help/whatever most appreciated! Thx.











check all plastic endcaps , your outer cable is probably pushing
through



one of them







--



/Marten







info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

If you have plastic end caps check ALL of them even the ones at the bar
shifter and the derailleur. If they haven't failed yet they will at some
time. I'd replace them asap. Look for and binding anywhere in the cable
run and or kinks in the housing.


Sorting out the cables on mine is a job I should do sooner rather than
later.

As I was passing Halfords anyway I nipped in to buy some.

They only had plastic ones and said its been that way for some time!

On 20/05/13 02:44, yirgster wrote:
I've been having problems with my rear derailleur system where the
indexing seems to be slipping on its own.

It's a SRAM force with a 10 cog cassette.

That is, shifting becomes funky and I hear that sound when I shift. I
often have to over-push the paddles to get onto a larger cog.
Eventually I can't get onto the largest cog at all. (This in fact
caused some consternation on one steep pitch!) Other gears might skip
or the cog drops down to the next smaller one.

I've dealt with this by turning the indexing barrel counter-clockwise
which temporarily fixes the problem.

It's gotten worse and worse. The cable and housing were replaced
last year. When this problem started a couple of months ago out of
the blue in my various attempts to deal with it I've both tightened
and loosened the derailleur cable.

I've never seen a problem like this before in all my years (and they
are many!).

Any suggestions/help/whatever most appreciated! Thx.



Is the cable frayed inside the shifter?

The only time I had a cable break it caused weird shifting. It slowly
broke, strand by strand until there was only a coupled of strands
attached. The frayed end made the cable not move in the housing freely,
and I think the cable slowly got a bit longer as it unwound.

Anyway, mine was breaking at the clamp bolt on the rear derailleur, but
I've heard that often cables break inside the lever mechanism. In fact
a mate has broken a few on Shimano 10s systems. I don't know if SRAM is
prone to similar problems or not.

--
JS

"James" wrote in message
...
On 20/05/13 02:44, yirgster wrote:
I've been having problems with my rear derailleur system where the
indexing seems to be slipping on its own.

It's a SRAM force with a 10 cog cassette.

That is, shifting becomes funky and I hear that sound when I shift. I
often have to over-push the paddles to get onto a larger cog.
Eventually I can't get onto the largest cog at all. (This in fact
caused some consternation on one steep pitch!) Other gears might skip
or the cog drops down to the next smaller one.

I've dealt with this by turning the indexing barrel counter-clockwise
which temporarily fixes the problem.

It's gotten worse and worse. The cable and housing were replaced
last year. When this problem started a couple of months ago out of
the blue in my various attempts to deal with it I've both tightened
and loosened the derailleur cable.

I've never seen a problem like this before in all my years (and they
are many!).

Any suggestions/help/whatever most appreciated! Thx.



Is the cable frayed inside the shifter?

The only time I had a cable break it caused weird shifting. It slowly
broke, strand by strand until there was only a coupled of strands
attached. The frayed end made the cable not move in the housing freely,
and I think the cable slowly got a bit longer as it unwound.


You can get individual strands break at the pinch bold - they not only
unravel anf make the inner get longer, the loose strand swells out
diameter-wise increasing cable friction.

As long as you keep the cable adjusted, shifting down is OK but shifting up
can take a few turns of the pedal before the chain moves to the intended
sproket.

As it gets worse, you have to change up 2 gears and click back one to change
up one gear.

If the inner frays at the lever/grip the separated strand can act like a
free-wheel pawl if it catches on the housing, that can effectively lock out
some of the higher gears.

On May 19, 5:44*pm, yirgster wrote:
I've been having problems with my rear derailleur system where the indexing seems to be slipping on its own.

It's a SRAM force with a 10 cog cassette.

That is, shifting becomes funky and I hear that sound when I shift. I often have to over-push the paddles to get onto a larger cog. Eventually I can't get onto the largest cog at all. (This in fact caused some consternation on one steep pitch!) Other gears might skip or the cog drops down to the next smaller one.

I've dealt with this by turning the indexing barrel counter-clockwise which temporarily fixes the problem.

It's gotten worse and worse. *The cable and housing were replaced last year. When this problem started a couple of months ago out of the blue in my various attempts to deal with it I've *both tightened and loosened the derailleur cable.

I've never seen a problem like this before in all my years (and they are many!).

Any suggestions/help/whatever most appreciated! Thx.

Use long lay casing, cut it square, use good ferrules and lubricate
the inner wire with lumplead or molybdenum disulphide. If you have
it, a PTFE aerosol will do (about the only thing it's useful for) and
can be used to blast clear a housing.