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The 10 commandments



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 24th 13, 04:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default The 10 commandments

On May 24, 7:51 am, Duane wrote:
On 5/24/2013 10:35 AM, Dan O wrote:



On May 24, 3:51 am, Duane H wrote:
On 5/23/2013 10:21 PM, James wrote:


What commandments/rules would you offer to a novice who's just bought a
bike, to help them survive biking, particularly in the (sub)urban roads
landscape?



snip


Suggestions welcome.


Signal your intentions to drivers and other riders.


We all send signals all the time (can't not communicate). Question
is, how perceptive is the receiver? How far and how clear must I be
in communicating my intention - especially if they will have no
practical impact requiring any cooperation.


Well James was asking for suggestions to impart to someone buying a
bike. We have a set of suggestions that we give to new members of our
cycling club, some of which he's already included. I thought I'd add a
few more.


All good advice - all good; and I realize that I'm apt to become...
um, "exasperating" myself. (Please let me know and give me a chance
to be tolerant and appreciative of differing views.)

I see riders pulling in front of cars and other bikes without
signalling.


How immediately "in front of"? Does it cause a situation requiring
action to accommodate? Or maybe just create an unease in the observer
who now thinks that - because I leaped off the sidewalk and across
five (empty) lanes that I might swerve into his impending path such
that I will depend on him to keep me from becoming a creamed hood
ornament? Does that correlate?

I see them stopping in front me in my car or my bike
without signalling.


Well... um... what if a baby hedgehog steps out in front of them? You
expect them to signal before braking?

People fuss when I tell them their computer needs to be wiped clean
and rebuilt from scratch. Well, what if their hard drive had failed?

Same for turns, slowing whatever. Or do you have
some other form of communication in mind? g


You can't not communicate. Depending on how much cooperation or
accommodation may be needed, I may extend a greater effort to
expressly communicate my intentions - including negotiation (which may
be as simple as eye contact with conscious "connection" that creates a
mutual ~understanding).

Make eye contact when taking your right of way.


Takes two to make eye contact. Of course I always try - not just when
takign right of way, but when "negotiating" any social interaction
(ala Hans Monderman).


I mean for example that when you come to a stop the same time the other
guy you make sure that they see you before taking off, even if you have
the right of way. I know this restricts your freedom somewhat but I've
seen a lot of people get into trouble because the driver wasn't looking
for them. Better to let the idiot go in that case.


"Just sit there until the asshole is gone." (?)

Sorry, I *want* eye contact, but I won't be paralyzed waiting for it.
If I can't get it, and the collective other indications don't make me
comfortable proceeding e.g. in front of them, I may go around behind,
way out around with a variable heightened readiness, etc.

Don't pass another bike on the right.


Not even if I leave the orad to do it?


We're talking road use. If you mean that you will jump on the sidewalk
to pass me, I don't care as long as you don't dump back in front of me
without signalling. Or the cop doesn't hit me when he's chasing you
down. lol


Well, I was thinking of that day I followed the huge bike tour out of
town on my old Stumpjumper (with ~fat slicks). There were flocks of
carbon fiber skinny tire racing rigs, and sometimes I would just take
to the unpaved shoulder to blow by them (calling out, "On your right"
first, of course).

Expect the other guy to do the wrong thing.


Won't that screw me up if he does the right thing? How about I just
expect anything... and nothing.


VC (again, notice the caps) doctrine is to "control the lane", I mean
expect the driver to not be controlled. You're rewording amounts to the
same thing, I think.


Yeah, I realized what you meant aftrer posting.

Lol, I know you don't like rules man but I don't think James is
intending you as a potential user of his commandments here.


It's cool - all good - all good advice.
Ads
  #22  
Old May 24th 13, 04:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,098
Default The 10 commandments

On May 24, 8:48 am, Dan O wrote:
On May 24, 7:51 am, Duane wrote:

On 5/24/2013 10:35 AM, Dan O wrote:



snip


Lol, I know you don't like rules man but I don't think James is
intending you as a potential user of his commandments here.



What I don't like is being held to "expectations".

snip
  #23  
Old May 24th 13, 04:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,098
Default The 10 commandments

On May 24, 8:53 am, Dan O wrote:
On May 24, 8:48 am, Dan O wrote:

On May 24, 7:51 am, Duane wrote:


On 5/24/2013 10:35 AM, Dan O wrote:


snip



Lol, I know you don't like rules man but I don't think James is
intending you as a potential user of his commandments here.


What I don't like is being held to "expectations".

snip


Understand, I am aware of expectations and the importance of meeting
and exceeding them for success in life. But *sometime* I gotta be me
and get my kicks (know what I mean?), and for me that opportunity most
usually happens to be going to and from work. I try not to infringe
others peaceable completion of their lifeless transportation chore,
but don't count me into that scene.

  #24  
Old May 24th 13, 05:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,900
Default The 10 commandments

On 5/24/2013 11:48 AM, Dan O wrote:
On May 24, 7:51 am, wrote:
On 5/24/2013 10:35 AM, Dan O wrote:



On May 24, 3:51 am, Duane H wrote:
On 5/23/2013 10:21 PM, James wrote:


What commandments/rules would you offer to a novice who's just bought a
bike, to help them survive biking, particularly in the (sub)urban roads
landscape?



snip


Suggestions welcome.


Signal your intentions to drivers and other riders.


We all send signals all the time (can't not communicate). Question
is, how perceptive is the receiver? How far and how clear must I be
in communicating my intention - especially if they will have no
practical impact requiring any cooperation.


Well James was asking for suggestions to impart to someone buying a
bike. We have a set of suggestions that we give to new members of our
cycling club, some of which he's already included. I thought I'd add a
few more.


All good advice - all good; and I realize that I'm apt to become...
um, "exasperating" myself. (Please let me know and give me a chance
to be tolerant and appreciative of differing views.)

I see riders pulling in front of cars and other bikes without
signalling.


How immediately "in front of"? Does it cause a situation requiring
action to accommodate? Or maybe just create an unease in the observer
who now thinks that - because I leaped off the sidewalk and across
five (empty) lanes that I might swerve into his impending path such
that I will depend on him to keep me from becoming a creamed hood
ornament? Does that correlate?


It depends. If you're in my pack and I'm on your wheel, then quite
close. Otherwise depends on how fast we're both going. It comes down
to whether I have to react or in case of a car, whether they do.
You can't do anything about people seeing you in the distance and
getting annoyed.

I see them stopping in front me in my car or my bike
without signalling.


Well... um... what if a baby hedgehog steps out in front of them? You
expect them to signal before braking?


lol. I guess take out the hedgehog.

People fuss when I tell them their computer needs to be wiped clean
and rebuilt from scratch. Well, what if their hard drive had failed?

Same for turns, slowing whatever. Or do you have
some other form of communication in mind?g


You can't not communicate. Depending on how much cooperation or
accommodation may be needed, I may extend a greater effort to
expressly communicate my intentions - including negotiation (which may
be as simple as eye contact with conscious "connection" that creates a
mutual ~understanding).


Um, I guess...

Make eye contact when taking your right of way.


Takes two to make eye contact. Of course I always try - not just when
takign right of way, but when "negotiating" any social interaction
(ala Hans Monderman).


I mean for example that when you come to a stop the same time the other
guy you make sure that they see you before taking off, even if you have
the right of way. I know this restricts your freedom somewhat but I've
seen a lot of people get into trouble because the driver wasn't looking
for them. Better to let the idiot go in that case.


"Just sit there until the asshole is gone." (?)

Sorry, I *want* eye contact, but I won't be paralyzed waiting for it.
If I can't get it, and the collective other indications don't make me
comfortable proceeding e.g. in front of them, I may go around behind,
way out around with a variable heightened readiness, etc.


Sure. The idea is to not pull out in front of someone in a hunk of iron
if you don't know that they see you.


Don't pass another bike on the right.


Not even if I leave the orad to do it?


We're talking road use. If you mean that you will jump on the sidewalk
to pass me, I don't care as long as you don't dump back in front of me
without signalling. Or the cop doesn't hit me when he's chasing you
down. lol


Well, I was thinking of that day I followed the huge bike tour out of
town on my old Stumpjumper (with ~fat slicks). There were flocks of
carbon fiber skinny tire racing rigs, and sometimes I would just take
to the unpaved shoulder to blow by them (calling out, "On your right"
first, of course).


You'd get **** around here. I mean like a frame pump in the back, not a
cop or anything.


Expect the other guy to do the wrong thing.


Won't that screw me up if he does the right thing? How about I just
expect anything... and nothing.


VC (again, notice the caps) doctrine is to "control the lane", I mean
expect the driver to not be controlled. You're rewording amounts to the
same thing, I think.


Yeah, I realized what you meant aftrer posting.

Lol, I know you don't like rules man but I don't think James is
intending you as a potential user of his commandments here.


It's cool - all good - all good advice.


  #25  
Old May 24th 13, 05:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,900
Default The 10 commandments

On 5/24/2013 11:59 AM, Dan O wrote:
On May 24, 8:53 am, Dan wrote:
On May 24, 8:48 am, Dan wrote:

On May 24, 7:51 am, wrote:


On 5/24/2013 10:35 AM, Dan O wrote:


snip



Lol, I know you don't like rules man but I don't think James is
intending you as a potential user of his commandments here.


What I don't like is being held to "expectations".

snip


Understand, I am aware of expectations and the importance of meeting
and exceeding them for success in life. But *sometime* I gotta be me
and get my kicks (know what I mean?), and for me that opportunity most
usually happens to be going to and from work. I try not to infringe
others peaceable completion of their lifeless transportation chore,
but don't count me into that scene.



Hmm. My commute is not a lifeless transportation chore. Don't assume
that people less outre than you are not enjoying themselves.
  #26  
Old May 24th 13, 05:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,098
Default The 10 commandments

On May 24, 9:06 am, Duane wrote:
On 5/24/2013 11:48 AM, Dan O wrote:



On May 24, 7:51 am, wrote:
On 5/24/2013 10:35 AM, Dan O wrote:


On May 24, 3:51 am, Duane H wrote:


snip


Don't pass another bike on the right.


Not even if I leave the orad to do it?


We're talking road use. If you mean that you will jump on the sidewalk
to pass me, I don't care as long as you don't dump back in front of me
without signalling. Or the cop doesn't hit me when he's chasing you
down. lol


Well, I was thinking of that day I followed the huge bike tour out of
town on my old Stumpjumper (with ~fat slicks). There were flocks of
carbon fiber skinny tire racing rigs, and sometimes I would just take
to the unpaved shoulder to blow by them (calling out, "On your right"
first, of course).


You'd get **** around here. I mean like a frame pump in the back, not a
cop or anything.


Bring it. (These guys didn't have the juice to stay in front of a
hippy on a friggin' mountain bike.)

snip
  #27  
Old May 24th 13, 05:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,098
Default The 10 commandments

On May 24, 9:10 am, Duane wrote:
On 5/24/2013 11:59 AM, Dan O wrote:



On May 24, 8:53 am, Dan wrote:
On May 24, 8:48 am, Dan wrote:


On May 24, 7:51 am, wrote:


On 5/24/2013 10:35 AM, Dan O wrote:


snip


Lol, I know you don't like rules man but I don't think James is
intending you as a potential user of his commandments here.


What I don't like is being held to "expectations".


snip


Understand, I am aware of expectations and the importance of meeting
and exceeding them for success in life. But *sometime* I gotta be me
and get my kicks (know what I mean?), and for me that opportunity most
usually happens to be going to and from work. I try not to infringe
others peaceable completion of their lifeless transportation chore,
but don't count me into that scene.


Hmm. My commute is not a lifeless transportation chore. Don't assume
that people less outre than you are not enjoying themselves.


Then why the expectation to constrain my actions - to drag me down in
situations where I am simply doing my thing and asking nothing from
them in terms of accommodation - just not to have a cow because they
disaprove of my playful nonconformity. (I was *mostly* talking about
cagers, but it's even weirder when it comes from somebody else on a
bike.)

  #28  
Old May 24th 13, 05:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,900
Default The 10 commandments

On 5/24/2013 12:18 PM, Dan O wrote:
On May 24, 9:06 am, wrote:
On 5/24/2013 11:48 AM, Dan O wrote:



On May 24, 7:51 am, wrote:
On 5/24/2013 10:35 AM, Dan O wrote:


On May 24, 3:51 am, Duane H wrote:


snip


Don't pass another bike on the right.


Not even if I leave the orad to do it?


We're talking road use. If you mean that you will jump on the sidewalk
to pass me, I don't care as long as you don't dump back in front of me
without signalling. Or the cop doesn't hit me when he's chasing you
down. lol


Well, I was thinking of that day I followed the huge bike tour out of
town on my old Stumpjumper (with ~fat slicks). There were flocks of
carbon fiber skinny tire racing rigs, and sometimes I would just take
to the unpaved shoulder to blow by them (calling out, "On your right"
first, of course).


You'd get **** around here. I mean like a frame pump in the back, not a
cop or anything.


Bring it. (These guys didn't have the juice to stay in front of a
hippy on a friggin' mountain bike.)


Wouldn't come up then unless it was a pretty zippy hippy. lol.

I'm thinking of the guy on the Venge with the aero kit blowing by me on
the right when I'm doing 35 in a pack. Thought he was running a TT or
something. Probably was training for it on a road with other bikes and
figured he owned it or something.

  #29  
Old May 24th 13, 05:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,900
Default The 10 commandments

On 5/24/2013 12:21 PM, Dan O wrote:
On May 24, 9:10 am, wrote:
On 5/24/2013 11:59 AM, Dan O wrote:



On May 24, 8:53 am, Dan wrote:
On May 24, 8:48 am, Dan wrote:


On May 24, 7:51 am, wrote:


On 5/24/2013 10:35 AM, Dan O wrote:


snip


Lol, I know you don't like rules man but I don't think James is
intending you as a potential user of his commandments here.


What I don't like is being held to "expectations".


snip


Understand, I am aware of expectations and the importance of meeting
and exceeding them for success in life. But *sometime* I gotta be me
and get my kicks (know what I mean?), and for me that opportunity most
usually happens to be going to and from work. I try not to infringe
others peaceable completion of their lifeless transportation chore,
but don't count me into that scene.


Hmm. My commute is not a lifeless transportation chore. Don't assume
that people less outre than you are not enjoying themselves.


Then why the expectation to constrain my actions - to drag me down in
situations where I am simply doing my thing and asking nothing from
them in terms of accommodation - just not to have a cow because they
disaprove of my playful nonconformity. (I was *mostly* talking about
cagers, but it's even weirder when it comes from somebody else on a
bike.)


You're too sensitive dude. Not having a cow. Well not today. I guess
it depends on what you mean by accommodation.

Like I said, I doubt James had you in mind as a target audience when he
posted this question.
  #30  
Old May 24th 13, 07:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default The 10 commandments

James writes:

On 24/05/13 15:34, Dan O wrote:
On May 23, 7:21 pm, James wrote:
What commandments/rules would you offer to a novice who's just bought a
bike, to help them survive biking, particularly in the (sub)urban roads
landscape?


snip


etc.

I'm considering what might be a useful sheet of info for anyone who buys
a bike (or helmet in this country).

Suggestions welcome.


I would emphasize situational awareness. I think more important than
being predictable (whatever that is in any given circumstances) is
being able to predict, and knowing the limitations of same.

As for someone buying a helmet, I would advise them not to count on it
to save them, then loop back to #1 above.

Also, thou shalt take very good care of thine bike, and thine bike
will take comensurate good care of thou.


I like that.


Surely the grammar's wrong:

Also, thou shalt take very good care of thy bike, and thy bike
will take comensurate good care of thee.

--
 




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