Physics for marketing professionals

AE6KS a Jobstian ? cable attached to male threaded stud with attached nipple. Screw in nipple/tighten jamb nut.

yawl read thru this ? http://goo.gl/Dy1jO5 ?

uh...I haven't. ugh. however, seems that tho the wheel structure would exist, the structure exists as a TENSILE STRUCTURE not as a METAL STRUT structure. Or...PILLAR STRUCTURE ?

is nit fixed....the structure tensiles/tensions. flexible laterally

the Kevlar road repair spoke is a road repair spoke..singular spoke...not a complete wheel of Kevlar spokes

Off course ido not know why JB would insist that his spokes last forever. Maybe ? maybe he's pulling our leg ? JB has TdF spokes ? x-rayed. magnafluxed ? I say he's lying. YOU'RE LYING JOBST

On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 11:18:25 PM UTC-4, wrote:
AE6KS a Jobstian ? cable attached to male threaded stud with attached nipple. Screw in nipple/tighten jamb nut.

yawl read thru this ? http://goo.gl/Dy1jO5 ?

uh...I haven't. ugh. however, seems that tho the wheel structure would exist, the structure exists as a TENSILE STRUCTURE not as a METAL STRUT structure. Or...PILLAR STRUCTURE ?

is nit fixed....the structure tensiles/tensions. flexible laterally

the Kevlar road repair spoke is a road repair spoke..singular spoke...not a complete wheel of Kevlar spokes

Off course ido not know why JB would insist that his spokes last forever. Maybe ? maybe he's pulling our leg ? JB has TdF spokes ? x-rayed. magnafluxed ? I say he's lying. YOU'RE LYING JOBST


FRANK BERTO WUDNUT LIE ABT HIS SPOKES

On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 17:13:50 -0700 (PDT), Mike A Schwab
wrote:

On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 6:25:38 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 07:29:28 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/27/2015 6:32 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:43:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/22/...spoke+desig n


Why not just use steel cable for wheel spokes? After all Suspension
bridges use steel cable :-)


No particular reason aside from cost, weight and convenience.

Since Kevlar-Aramid spokes work just fine, a steel cable is
a logical extension.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/fiberfix.html

I've ridden a rear wheel with two of those for a few years
now (can't change spokes otherwise in that wheel).

There's prior art, a Dutch steel cable replacement spoke
named Simson from Mijdrect Holland NL. I have not used one.

Aren't there some sort of cable spokes sold for "on the road" repairs
of a broken drive side spoke? I have seen them described on the Web
although never saw one for sale in the local shops.
--
Cheers,

John B.

http://www.amazon.com/FiberFix-Emerg.../dp/B001GSMQZC

Exactly, and I've never seen then for sale in a bicycle shop :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 4:45:43 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/27/2015 6:33 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, March 27, 2015 at 2:17:21 PM UTC-7, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 3/27/2015 4:00 PM, James wrote:

: I'd love to read Jobst's review of these spokes.
:
:My first thought, too.

Look at them stress risers.

Yup, and then we would get to talk about the old days of crappy Alpine and Union spokes; how stress relieving cures all evils and how in ten trillion miles he hasn't broken a DT 15/16 Competition spoke -- and that no heavier spoke is needed (presumably ever). He would rail on "botique" wheels (which now dominate the market and are no longer botique -- any more than CF frames are botique.) Hmmm, what else? Probably something about the nipple design. He certainly wouldn't like the aluminum option.

Jay, Jobst was an extremely sharp engineer. I learned a lot from him,
as did a lot of other engineers.

That's not to say that I agreed with all his views. But the nature and
quality of his knowledge was such that I'd consider very carefully
whatever he'd say about these spokes.

I have -- because he said similar things about Mavic aluminum spokes, spoke gauges larger than 15/16 (to me, in fact) and aluminum nipples. He talked about stress relieving A LOT -- and the fact that after the introduction of DT spokes, he had very few spoke failures (if any). I strongly suspect he would see these spokes as unnecessary and a marketing gimmick. I'm not denigrating his engineering skills; I'm just echoing his common themes.

-- Jay Beattie.

Jay ...Jobst talk of running down pedestrians, other cyclists, buses and taxi's on his bicycle ?

On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 17:34:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 06:32:36 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:43:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/22/...spoke+desig n

Why not just use steel cable for wheel spokes? After all Suspension
bridges use steel cable :-)

Because the cable will rotate at the nipple when tensioned, which will
either increase or decrease the tension depending on which direction
the wire rope is spun. You could glue it in place where the wire rope
meets the nippel, but then it will rotate the nipple at the rim.
Designing the nipple to interface with the wire rope will also be a
challenge. The lack of laminar flow over the rather rough wire rope
surface, as compared to a smooth spoke, will add to the wind
resistance.

Yews, of course. But that is the reason that they manufacture
non-rotating cable.
http://pythonrope.com/wireropes/wr_techinfo_7.shtml

Very commonly used for the "whip line", or "fast line" as it is
sometimes called, on cranes.

But the secret would be to use kevlar which as it is many times
stronger then metal spokes, can be made much smaller in diameter and
turbulence aside frontal area is directly related to drag.

Ok, my turn. How about a 360 spoke wheel, where the spokes are made
from nylon or Kevlar fishing line? The 90% lower tension per spoke
would allow for the use of very thin string or line. Building such a
wheel might seem difficult, but with a lacing and tensioning fixture
similar those used for tennis rackets, I think it should be possible.
Balancing the string tension could be done with a guitar string tuner.

Using kevlar and suitable grommets one could lace a wheel with a
single continuous length, with, perhaps, one tiny "rigging screw" to
tension it.

One nice feature is that with 360 strings, breaking a few will
probably not even be noticed. Should a string be wrapped around
something (like the forks or seat stays), it's thin enough to break
before it causes a crash.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B.

2 in sequence or in a row as we ag folk say

John B, would be engineer, alerts us to non twisting cable ! then goes on to unrecognized non circlular rims...

Using kevlar and suitable grommets one could lace a wheel with a
single continuous length, with, perhaps, one tiny "rigging screw" to
tension it.

LOWER THE BOATS !

On 3/28/2015 6:25 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 07:29:28 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/27/2015 6:32 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:43:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/22/...spoke+desig n


Why not just use steel cable for wheel spokes? After all Suspension
bridges use steel cable :-)


No particular reason aside from cost, weight and convenience.

Since Kevlar-Aramid spokes work just fine, a steel cable is
a logical extension.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/fiberfix.html

I've ridden a rear wheel with two of those for a few years
now (can't change spokes otherwise in that wheel).

There's prior art, a Dutch steel cable replacement spoke
named Simson from Mijdrect Holland NL. I have not used one.

Aren't there some sort of cable spokes sold for "on the road" repairs
of a broken drive side spoke? I have seen them described on the Web
although never saw one for sale in the local shops.


Yes, there were, but I could not find a link. The USA kevlar
version (link above) seems to be the standard now. Popular
and works well.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/28/2015 7:34 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 06:32:36 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:43:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/22/...spoke+desig n

Why not just use steel cable for wheel spokes? After all Suspension
bridges use steel cable :-)

Because the cable will rotate at the nipple when tensioned, which will
either increase or decrease the tension depending on which direction
the wire rope is spun. You could glue it in place where the wire rope
meets the nippel, but then it will rotate the nipple at the rim.
Designing the nipple to interface with the wire rope will also be a
challenge. The lack of laminar flow over the rather rough wire rope
surface, as compared to a smooth spoke, will add to the wind
resistance.

Ok, my turn. How about a 360 spoke wheel, where the spokes are made
from nylon or Kevlar fishing line? The 90% lower tension per spoke
would allow for the use of very thin string or line. Building such a
wheel might seem difficult, but with a lacing and tensioning fixture
similar those used for tennis rackets, I think it should be possible.
Balancing the string tension could be done with a guitar string tuner.

One nice feature is that with 360 strings, breaking a few will
probably not even be noticed. Should a string be wrapped around
something (like the forks or seat stays), it's thin enough to break
before it causes a crash.




Prior art again- Sugino Tension Disc 240 Kevlar spokes and
indeed it both worked well and weighed less than 32 spokes.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=130406

There was also an MTB version marketed under the Tioga name.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/28/2015 11:43 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 17:13:50 -0700 (PDT), Mike A Schwab
wrote:

On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 6:25:38 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 07:29:28 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/27/2015 6:32 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:43:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/22/...spoke+desig n


Why not just use steel cable for wheel spokes? After all Suspension
bridges use steel cable :-)


No particular reason aside from cost, weight and convenience.

Since Kevlar-Aramid spokes work just fine, a steel cable is
a logical extension.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/fiberfix.html

I've ridden a rear wheel with two of those for a few years
now (can't change spokes otherwise in that wheel).

There's prior art, a Dutch steel cable replacement spoke
named Simson from Mijdrect Holland NL. I have not used one.

Aren't there some sort of cable spokes sold for "on the road" repairs
of a broken drive side spoke? I have seen them described on the Web
although never saw one for sale in the local shops.
--
Cheers,

John B.

http://www.amazon.com/FiberFix-Emerg.../dp/B001GSMQZC

Exactly, and I've never seen then for sale in a bicycle shop :-)


Stop in any time!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971