Help Needed With Veloce Ergo

Thanks in advance for your time and response.

A buddy just gave me a set of 9-speed Veloce Ergo Levers (nice, huh?). I have
read on the Branford Bike site that Campy changed their 9-speed stuff in 1999
or 2000 (not sure which) and that pre-switch levers/RDs are not compatible with
post-switch levers/RDs. I assume this is correct info. Can others confirm this?

If so, I think these are pre-switch levers. I think this because they ave the
pointy brake hood rubber (RE-500). I have looked through the spare parts
catalogs shown on the Campy web site and it looks like the last year Veloce had
these hoods was 1998. Can this be confirmed by anyone?

I understand from Branford that the chains and cassettes are compatible either
way. Can this be confirmed by anyone?

Finally, if I want to use these, I have to locate an approriate RD (or upgrade
the internal mechanisms, I suppose - which I am disinclined to do). How can I
easily tell a pre-switch RD from a post-switch RD? Is there a model number (or
is that too easy)? Is there are compelling reason to use the post-switch items
(and change the internals) over using pre-switch?

Thanks.

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 17:06:14 -0700, David White
wrote:

Thanks in advance for your time and response.

A buddy just gave me a set of 9-speed Veloce Ergo Levers (nice, huh?). I have
read on the Branford Bike site that Campy changed their 9-speed stuff in 1999
or 2000 (not sure which) and that pre-switch levers/RDs are not compatible with
post-switch levers/RDs. I assume this is correct info. Can others confirm this?

You can use a pre/post whatever rear derailleur and shift a Campy 9sp
cassette.

I do it all wrong and get great results. I use a Record 8 rear
derailleur with 2003,5 x 10 sp Ergo levers to shift Shimano 9 or 10 or
Campy 10.

You'll get more variability due to the quality and lengths of your
housing and cables than you will with the pre/post stuff.

David White wrote:
Thanks in advance for your time and response.

A buddy just gave me a set of 9-speed Veloce Ergo Levers (nice, huh?). I have
read on the Branford Bike site that Campy changed their 9-speed stuff in 1999
or 2000 (not sure which) and that pre-switch levers/RDs are not compatible with
post-switch levers/RDs. I assume this is correct info. Can others confirm this?


IT IS NOT CORRECT!!! I get so tired of this. maybe Breanford ought to
step away from their computer screens long enough to try this stuff. I
Just converted a 1999 lever set with a 1999 rear derailleur to 10s with
a 2005 shift disc and .......tada, it works perfectly!!!

If so, I think these are pre-switch levers. I think this because they ave the
pointy brake hood rubber (RE-500). I have looked through the spare parts
catalogs shown on the Campy web site and it looks like the last year Veloce had
these hoods was 1998. Can this be confirmed by anyone?

They are 1998 Veloce, 1999 saw them go to the round shape.


I understand from Branford that the chains and cassettes are compatible either
way. Can this be confirmed by anyone?

You can use any Campagnolo rear derailleur for this setup. You cannot
convert to 10s, that started in 1999, when ERGO brain was starting.


Finally, if I want to use these, I have to locate an approriate RD (or upgrade
the internal mechanisms,


NO, NO-Get a Campagnolo rear deraileur, even a 2005 10s one, put on a
Campag 9s cogset and chain, go ride.


I suppose - which I am disinclined to do). How can I
easily tell a pre-switch RD from a post-switch RD? Is there a model number (or
is that too easy)? Is there are compelling reason to use the post-switch items
(and change the internals) over using pre-switch?


Please do not change the innards, do not need to.
Thanks.

Thanks to all who have replied. It sounds much easier/more user-friendly than
I'd thought. Cheers.

David White wrote:

Thanks in advance for your time and response.

A buddy just gave me a set of 9-speed Veloce Ergo Levers (nice, huh?). I
have read on the Branford Bike site that Campy changed their 9-speed
stuff in 1999 or 2000 (not sure which) and that pre-switch levers/RDs
are not compatible with post-switch levers/RDs. I assume this is correct
info. Can others confirm this?

If so, I think these are pre-switch levers. I think this because they
ave the pointy brake hood rubber (RE-500). I have looked through the
spare parts catalogs shown on the Campy web site and it looks like the
last year Veloce had these hoods was 1998. Can this be confirmed by anyone?

I understand from Branford that the chains and cassettes are compatible
either way. Can this be confirmed by anyone?

Finally, if I want to use these, I have to locate an approriate RD (or
upgrade the internal mechanisms, I suppose - which I am disinclined to
do). How can I easily tell a pre-switch RD from a post-switch RD? Is
there a model number (or is that too easy)? Is there are compelling
reason to use the post-switch items (and change the internals) over
using pre-switch?

Thanks.

David White wrote:
A buddy just gave me a set of 9-speed Veloce Ergo Levers (nice,
huh?). I have read on the Branford Bike site that Campy changed their
9-speed stuff in 1999 or 2000 (not sure which) and that pre-switch
levers/RDs are not compatible with post-switch levers/RDs. I assume
this is correct info. Can others confirm this?

The year of change was 2001. You will be told that it doesn't matter but
there was an actual change in cable pull, so if you do want best indexing
possible, use pre 2001 rear derailleur with pre 2001 Ergo.

If so, I think these are pre-switch levers. I think this because they
ave the pointy brake hood rubber (RE-500).

Correct. And 2001+ 9-speed Ergos are marked "9 SPEED" on the bodies.

2001+ rear derailleurs can be identified by the lack of a conventional
"b-tension" screw (in the usual place).

~PB

Pete Biggs wrote:
David White wrote:
A buddy just gave me a set of 9-speed Veloce Ergo Levers (nice,
huh?). I have read on the Branford Bike site that Campy changed their
9-speed stuff in 1999 or 2000 (not sure which) and that pre-switch
levers/RDs are not compatible with post-switch levers/RDs. I assume
this is correct info. Can others confirm this?

The year of change was 2001. You will be told that it doesn't matter but
there was an actual change in cable pull, so if you do want best indexing
possible, use pre 2001 rear derailleur with pre 2001 Ergo.


It does not matter in my experience of installing dozens of 'mixed
year' ERGO and rear derailleurs. If anything, the gent should try using
the 'older' Veloce with a new rear derailleur before just assuming that
it won't work. As a retail shop, we can't survive on 'pretty good' It
has to be perfect for the consumer, which is what I describe it as.

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
Pete Biggs wrote:
David White wrote:
A buddy just gave me a set of 9-speed Veloce Ergo Levers (nice,
huh?). I have read on the Branford Bike site that Campy changed
their 9-speed stuff in 1999 or 2000 (not sure which) and that
pre-switch levers/RDs are not compatible with post-switch
levers/RDs. I assume this is correct info. Can others confirm this?

The year of change was 2001. You will be told that it doesn't
matter but there was an actual change in cable pull, so if you do
want best indexing possible, use pre 2001 rear derailleur with pre
2001 Ergo.

It does not matter in my experience of installing dozens of 'mixed
year' ERGO and rear derailleurs.

You've said that already. And I will carry on posting the facts when
people ask for them. Then they can decide what to do for themselves. It
is a fact that the cable pull and derailleurs changed in 2001. At the
very least, we should get the year correct in case someone does think it
might matter. A lot of people think it's 2000.

Old 9-speed Ergo pulls 3.2mm of cable per gear, new pulls 3.0mm.

If anything, the gent should try
using the 'older' Veloce with a new rear derailleur before just
assuming that
it won't work. As a retail shop, we can't survive on 'pretty good' It
has to be perfect for the consumer, which is what I describe it as.

Wasn't perfect when I tried old geometry with new shifter. There's no
such thing as perfect indexing anyway.

~PB

Pete Biggs wrote:

Wasn't perfect when I tried old geometry with new shifter. There's no
such thing as perfect indexing anyway.

My '98ish 9sp. shift levers (brifters) work very well with a Chorus
('02) 10 speed rear deraileur, on Campy Veloce 9sp (loose) cogs (one
wheelset w/Veloce hub, another w/Record hub). I don't have any
experience with mixing 10sp (new) shift levers with other components,
but esp. when everything is fresh/new, clean, oiled, this Johnny Cash
Cadillac setup (CRec crank with original chainwheels, some other year
front deraileur)(and other non-drivetrain model year parts mixing)
works a notch better than my 8sp (all Record, new parts bought at the
same time) ever did. Meaning, a little quicker shift and a more
positive feel. BTW, that's with Campy-branded chains, and Record 8sp
cogs, and as it happens, both bikes are early 80's manufacture with
short horizontal dropouts. And that's not to call the 8sp shifting bad,
by any means, either, but the 9sp has a noticeable edge on the 8sp. I
understand there was a change in Campy cables, also; maybe my 9sp has
the newer/thicker style and that is the difference.

Not to argue against (doubt) your results, but-- perhaps another cause,
other than actual incompatibility? I'm struck by Peter C's reported
repeatability in getting excellent results, and with lots of different
owner/operators, too: IOW, lots of field testers "looking for" flaws.
Or are you also a mechanic/shop owner who has tried this mixing thing
more often than a "civilian" bike owner might? --TP

Pete Biggs wrote:


You've said that already. And I will carry on posting the facts when
people ask for them. Then they can decide what to do for themselves. It
is a fact that the cable pull and derailleurs changed in 2001. At the
very least, we should get the year correct in case someone does think it
might matter. A lot of people think it's 2000.


Wasn't perfect when I tried old geometry with new shifter. There's no
such thing as perfect indexing anyway.

~PB

No need to get huffy. The 'facts' as printed by Campagnolo are not
accurate from my experience. Remember they also said you couldn't
convert a 1999 9s lever to 10s, when 10s first came out. They also say
you cannot use a short cage rear deraileur with a 13-29 cogset, they
also say you cannot use a 11-23 with a long cage rear der, or use a
compact crank with a 'standard' front der...etc.

I don't know why your equipment didn't work. As you say, no such thing
as perfect indexing anyway, something else I disagree with. Pushing
lever, in any situation, loaded, coasting, chain goes to next
cog...stays there w/o noise, what else is there?

AS Andy Muzi says, bicycle systems and derailleurs just aren't that
precise and great shifting can be had with lots of combinations that
are not concerned with .2mm cable pull differences.

wrote:
Not to argue against (doubt) your results, but-- perhaps another
cause, other than actual incompatibility?

I think I eliminated other causes. In any case, there is an actual
difference in cable pull and ratio. It's not purely a figment of
Campagnolo's marketing.

I'm struck by Peter C's
reported repeatability in getting excellent results,

Frankly, I'd have to personally ride and listen to those bikes to be sure
the indexing is what I would call excellent. Some subjectivity is
involved. It doesn't help that all Ergos have some play from new: partly
deliberate (the overshifting feature) when shifting to larger sprockets,
and partly some slop in the works when shifting to smaller sprockets.
This makes *perfect* and noise-free setup tricky even with properly
matched stuff.

Please note that I usually merely say that new levers should be used with
new derailleurs (and vice versa) "for best indexing" -- and that has to be
true. I don't say it's not going to work.

and with lots of
different owner/operators, too.

We don't hear from all those directly.

~PB