DANGER - CARBON FIBER FRAMES

WARNING! IF YOU OWN A CARBON FIBER BICYCLE THAT IS MORE THAN TWO YEARS OLD - GET RID OF IT NOW!!! IT CAN CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH! THIS IS STRAIGHT FROM COLNAGO OF ITALY - a premier maker of world-class racing bikes for over 60 years.

Read on for more details....

Apparently, ALL carbon fiber bike frames, regardless of manufacturer and warranty, are good for only TWO YEARS, after that they can break and cause serious injury or even cost you your life. I know, I have experienced it and even Colnago admits that I was very lucky to have survived.


The background...

In July 2016 my wife Louise and I were on vacation in California. I rode my 14-year old Colnago C-40 (full carbon fiber racing bike) there on July 1, 2, 3, & 4. On July 5th I rode from Castro Valley to Moraga and back with friends. This ride is entirely in the Oakland Hills. On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill. After the crash, he found what he believes to be a crack in his carbon fiber front fork. He contributes the crash to hitting a large bump in the road on the downhill. He also believes (although I do not agree) that I also hit this bump, which contributed to the catastrophic destruction of my bike frame 5 days later on July 10th.

On July 10th, I was starting out with Louise and two friends on a 45-mile ride from San Francisco to Novato, CA and back. Only one mile into the ride I made a left turn (traveling at about 5 mph) and my frame suddenly snapped underneath me WITHOUT ANY WARNING! Both the top tube and down tube simultaneously broke off the head tube. I went down hard in the road. I suffered a badly damaged right hand with a dislocated and broken finger, which required surgery within 2 weeks. I now have a metal plate in my finger to hold it together. Had this happened just 30 minutes later, I would have been on a 40+ mph downhill into Sausalito on a 2-lane road with oncoming traffic. I COULD HAVE BEEN KILLED!

I contacted Colnago-America in Chicago, Illinois (the sole wholesaler of Colnago bicycles in the USA) and spoke with Mr. Billy Kanzer, National Sales Manger for Colnago. I also sent him two emails with the story of the frame failure and photos. He said they would need to examine the frame for faults and he would get back to me. To date, I have not heard back from him.

Apparently, Tom also wrote to Colnago-America about his damaged fork and his crash on Redwood Road. Both his letter and my emails were obviously forwarded to Colnago in Italy.

On July 21, 2016 I received the below email from Mr. Gilberto Gentilli, Esq (Colnago's legal council for product liability and related matters). It is a shocking message! In the email he states that my catastrophic frame failure was due to (1) the frame's "useful life had expired", and (2) "severe punishment by frequent use on damaged roads" (my bike spent 12 of it's 14 years in California).

Mr Gentilli also goes on to explain that even the pros DO NOT ride a carbon fiber frame more that a MAXIMUM OF TWO SEASONS. After that, they are (quote) "either destroyed or sold...to private individuals with the understanding that they are purchasing them at their sole risk and responsibility". (That must explain why my bike frame only came with a 2-year warrantee.) He goes on to say (quote) "carbon is not indestructible and...when it breaks it does so catastrophically with hardly any warning. It is a price we all gladly pay for the amazing characteristics of carbon..."

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The proof...

Below is the verbatim text of the email from Mr. Gentilli. I have underlined the important areas of the message. Read it for yourself...
================================================== ==================
Delivered-To:
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 23:54:59 +0200
Subject: C-40
From: Gilberto
To: ,

CC: Alessandro Colnago ,
Billy Kanzler
Thread-Topic: C-40

Gentlemen,

By way of introduction, I am Colnago’s legal counsel for product liability and related matters. In such capacity, I have been forwarded your recent correspondence with Billy Kanzler of Colnago America, Inc.. On behalf of the entire Colnago team, and particularly Mr. Ernesto Colnago himself, let me first of all express our sympathy towards you both for your July 5th and 10th incidents. I agree with you, all things considered, one can safely say that you were both quite lucky.
The main purpose of this letter is to respond to the questions you have raised, respectively, in your July 11, 2016 email (Mr. Lynch) and July 11, 2016 letter (Mr. Kunich) for which we thank you.
In your email, Mr. Lynch, you have asked: "when is a carbon frame too old to ride?�
In your letter, Mr. Kunich, you have asked us to comment on your hypothesis that: 1. Carbon frames have or should have unlimited “useful lives or life cycles�; and 2. Your two C-40’s broke as a result of “aging and the number of shocks on broken roads�.
Once again, we truly appreciate having the opportunity of interacting directly with sophisticated customers such as yourselves. It is a rare privilege.. I will do my best to satisfy your curiosity to the best of my professional ability and experience. While in Europe, for example, product liability for a manufacturer ends 10 years after purchase, in the US, but for products with clear “expiration dates� (such as milk, for example) or shelf life (such as pharmaceuticals) there is no such thing as a precise "useful life� of a product. Let’s use our C-40 as an example (or any other carbon frame for hat matter). Its useful life depends on many factors such as, but not limited to, how much and under what conditions it is used; whether and to what extent it is submitted to regular maintenance checks and so on. As I see it, the best if not the only way a serious manufacturer such as Colnago - who’s been making frames for over 60 years – can protect the safety of his customers is by designing and manufacturing frames using state of the art technology and materials (yes, Mr. Kunich, I too believe Colnago’s lug system is still the best technology on the market for carbon frames manufacture. Thank you for acknowledging it) but also drafting adequate warnings and instructions whose purpose is to inform the customers on the inherent risks involved in cycling.
Having drafted Colnago’s manuals for over 20 years (since 1995 to be precise), I take particular pride in drawing your attention to the specific wording of these manuals regarding the frames’ useful lives and the need for frequent maintenance checks. An unbiased reading of such warnings must lead to the conclusion that, indeed, Mr. Kunich’s interpretation of the reasons for the failures are to be found in the frames’ ages and their having been subjected to severe punishment by frequent use on damaged roads. In other words, their useful lives had expired. In your specific situation(s), I believe that the speed bump you hit at over 35 miles/hour on July 5, 2016, was indeed the probable cause of cracks, perhaps invisible to the naked eye, but which nonetheless led to the final catastrophic event of July 10.
You are correct, Mr. Kunich, when you observe that our frames are built for racing conditions far more severe that the bumps you hit in your recent rides. Indeed, as you probably know, the C-40 and C-50 (which share the identical technology) still hold the record for most victories in the Paris-Roubaix. However frames used by professionals are used for one, or maximum two seasons after which they are either destroyed or sold (by the teams themselves) to private individuals with the understanding that they are purchasing them at their sole risk and responsibility. This is because, like any other material, carbon is not indestructible and, unlike steel, titanium or aluminum for example, when it breaks it does so catastrophically with hardly any warning. It is a price we all gladly pay for the amazing characteristics of carbon which have made it by far the most popular material in racing bicycle frames manufacture.

Gentlemen, I trust the above answers your questions but should you need any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me directly.

Regards,

Gilberto Gentilli, Esq.
Attorney at Law


Law Offices Gentilli
Via Cesare Balbo, 36
59100 - Prato (PO) -
Italy
cell.: +39 335 667 9978
Tel.: +39 (0) 574 60 61 41
Skype: g.gentilli


www.lawofficesgentilli.com
================================================== ====================================


It does not end there...

While in the emergency room (getting 13 stitches in my hand) after my crash, I met a technician who is an avid mountain bike rider. He owns a carbon fiber mountain bike. He told me that he gets rid of his carbon frame and replaces it every 5 years. Why? Because it can break and you can be severely injured or killed!

On July 21st I began physical therapy for my right hand at OrthoArizona Canyon Orthopaedic Surgeons on W. Thunderbird Road in Peoria, AZ. There, I met a physical therapist who is also an avid bike rider. He said he owns 3 bikes. One is carbon fiber. He told me that he not only limits the amount of miles he spends on the carbon fiber bike, he also gets rid of it and replaces it EVERY TWO YEARS! Why? Because it can break and you can be severely injured or killed! He showed us picture after picture after picture of broken carbon bikes and forks, all which he said happened catastrophically and without any warning and none of the riders struck any objects in the road. ALL THE MAJOR MANUFACTURERS WERE INVOLVED - regardless of their frame warrantees! None of the manufacturers were exempt. The photos included Pinarello, Colnago, Trek, Specialized, and many more.

My question is: If this is so prevalent, why is it that we have not heard of it before? It has not been on the news, in the papers, in the bike magazines, or on the Internet. And again, all major bike manufacturers are involved - regardless of their frame warrantees. What good is a "lifetime" warranty if you are severely injured, disabled, - OR KILLED - because your frame broke without warning and tossed you under an oncoming car?

All I can say is if you own a carbon fiber frame or fork that is more than two years old, you had better think twice about keeping it. I now have a badly scarred finger and a metal plate in my hand to prove what I am saying. Louise also owns a full carbon Colnago C-40 bike that is only one year newer than mine. She will now be getting rid of it as, after witnessing my horrific crash and aftermath and personally seeing the above information, she is scared to ride it. I don't blame her. I do not know if we will ever own a carbon fiber bike again.

IF YOU VALUE YOUR CYCLING FRIENDS, PLEASE PASS THIS MESSAGE ON.

Food for thought....Be safe out there!

Mike Lynch
Peoria, AZ


From Tom Kunich - Mike has photos showing just how bad this can be:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...NjkyMD Q1MDY-

Inspecting my Colnago Star Fork I discovered that there is a SEAM along the outside vertical blades. This is an incredible discovery. I really should have looked at these earlier but since I also have a Colnago Force Fork that I had inspected before I assumed that the Star had the same level of workmanship. My very dangerous crash was caused by the fork slitting along this seam and the bike not steering properly forcing me off of the road at 35 mph. I am very lucky to be alive.

Remember this when you buy carbon fiber bicycles.

On 7/22/2016 9:38 AM, wrote:


WARNING! IF YOU OWN A CARBON FIBER BICYCLE THAT IS MORE THAN TWO YEARS OLD - GET RID OF IT NOW!!! IT CAN CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH!

Pretty common knowledge that carbon fiber ("carbon fiber" is a nice way
of saying "plastic") frames, forks, seatposts, etc. have a limited
useful life.

Experts agree that if you're going to use a carbon fiber frame, or other
carbon fiber components, for more than a couple of seasons, that you
should at least periodically have them x-rayed for hidden damage. Your
frame was 14 YEARS OLD! How many times did you have it x-rayed for
hidden damage? I don't know of course, but I'd guess it's zero. And
"damage" might not be the right word. Even without being damaged by an
impact, the material is going to deteriorate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCTQRfGUzFA&noredirect=1

Colnago may have not been very diplomatic, but you can't expect these
small manufacturers to be providing replacement frames when one of their
14 year old carbon fiber frames wears out. 2 years covers manufacturing
defects, not wear and tear. You knew the warranty when you bought it.

Even manufacturers with a "lifetime warranty" on the frame have ways of
weaseling out of it.


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On 7/22/2016 2:29 PM, SMS wrote:

Experts agree that if you're going to use a carbon fiber frame, or other
carbon fiber components, for more than a couple of seasons, that you
should at least periodically have them x-rayed for hidden damage.

Which experts agree on that?

I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't own any carbon fiber bikes or
parts, and don't plan on getting any.

But SMS has a long record of citing imaginary experts.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 09:38:28 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

My question is: If this is so prevalent, why is it that we have not
heard of it before? It has not been on the news, in the papers, in
the bike magazines, or on the Internet.

You maybe haven't heard of it although I have no idea how. This has
been written about thousands of times- hundreds of them in this very
newsgroup (which you, Tom, have participated in for a couple of decades
now). Try searching in your favorite search engine for "carbon fiber
bicycle failure" and you'll find reports, photos, etc. Search for
"carbon fiber failure mode" if you want to know why CFRP products fail
as they do.

In its current form, IMHO, carbon fiber is not an appropriate material
for bicycle load bearing elements (frames, forks, handlebars, stems,
seatposts, etc.) and (at 6'3" and 220 lbs) because of its failure mode
and as such I don't use it. Most of the cycling world disagrees with me
and that's up to them. Most users of CFRP bikes ride them for years
without any problems. Many probably have not looked into failure modes.
But the Consumer Product Safety Comission certainly does; indeed, there
have been a number of recalls of CFRP bike products because of an
identified specific risk of failure causing injury.

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 2:02:19 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 09:38:28 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

My question is: If this is so prevalent, why is it that we have not
heard of it before? It has not been on the news, in the papers, in
the bike magazines, or on the Internet.

You maybe haven't heard of it although I have no idea how. This has
been written about thousands of times- hundreds of them in this very
newsgroup (which you, Tom, have participated in for a couple of decades
now). Try searching in your favorite search engine for "carbon fiber
bicycle failure" and you'll find reports, photos, etc. Search for
"carbon fiber failure mode" if you want to know why CFRP products fail
as they do.

There are entirely too few Trek and Specialized CF frame failures. I'm sitting here in my office, twiddling my thumbs, waiting for the next lawsuit. It's like being the Maytag repairman. The last CF fork failure I had was more than a decade ago -- and it resulted from a handmade, multi-piece fork being assembled without bonding agent. That's the problem with hand-made products. Humans can make mistakes. No CF frame failures in 20+ years of representing Trek and Specialized in Oregon.

Oh I forgot. I had a broken fork maybe five years ago, but that doesn't count because the guy got a dog leash wrapped up in his front wheel. I'm telling you, we should outlaw dogs -- and squirrels.

I really want CF frames to fail because I could use the defense work. I've got to cover my son's tuition bill next semester. Maybe I should call Colnago and see if I can defend against TK's claim -- pro hac into California. The truth will out! It was a squirrel -- either here or in Italy!

-- Jay Beattie.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 15:55:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/22/2016 2:29 PM, SMS wrote:

Experts agree that if you're going to use a carbon fiber frame, or other
carbon fiber components, for more than a couple of seasons, that you
should at least periodically have them x-rayed for hidden damage.

Which experts agree on that?

I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't own any carbon fiber bikes or
parts, and don't plan on getting any.

But SMS has a long record of citing imaginary experts.

I might add that the first commercial composite boat built in the U.S.
seems to be a Snipe dinghy built in 1942. I myself owned a 40 ft.
sailing yacht built of composites in 1951 which I sold in 2000 and is
still sailing.I read an article in Practical Boat Owner, a British
sailing magazine regarding one of their employees who bought one of
the first "fiberglass" sailing yachts built in England. As part of the
pre-purchase survey they cut several cores from the hull and had them
tested for strength. They tested something like 95 - 98% of the
original strength of the hull.

The Coast Guard started building fiberglass boats 1950, the earliest
ones were FRP with aluminum frames. In 1962, when the boats were 10
years old the Coast Guard made hull strength tests and again in 1972.
See "Boat Longevity.pdf" available on the Web.
The results of the test are shown below.

Tensile Strength
10 years - 5990psi (1 Sample)
20 years - 6140 (10 samples)

Compressive Strength
10 years - 12,200 psi (2 samples)
20 years = 12,210 (10 samples)

Flexural Strength
10 years - 9410 psi (1 sample)
20 years - 10,850 (10 samples)

Sheer Strength
10 years - 6560 psi (3 samples)
20 years - 6146 (10 samples)

Note: tests are reported as average strengths of all samples tested.

I also note a U.S. Government study and standards for testing dated
October 1991 entitles "Life Prediction Methodologies for Composite
Materials".

I also find that a study titled "Determining the Fatigue Life of
Composite Aircraft Structures Using Life and Load-Enhancement
Factors" and dated June 2011, by the FAA, that is available.

I find it strange that the afore mentioned bicycle maker appears to be
ignorant of these studies. Or at least failed to mention them.

So yet again the indubitable Smurf has proven, for all to see, his
unique mendacity. (One can only assume that he works in "sales")
--
cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 16:06:47 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 2:02:19 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 09:38:28 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

My question is: If this is so prevalent, why is it that we have not
heard of it before? It has not been on the news, in the papers, in
the bike magazines, or on the Internet.

You maybe haven't heard of it although I have no idea how. This has
been written about thousands of times- hundreds of them in this very
newsgroup (which you, Tom, have participated in for a couple of decades
now). Try searching in your favorite search engine for "carbon fiber
bicycle failure" and you'll find reports, photos, etc. Search for
"carbon fiber failure mode" if you want to know why CFRP products fail
as they do.

There are entirely too few Trek and Specialized CF frame failures. I'm sitting here in my office, twiddling my thumbs, waiting for the next lawsuit. It's like being the Maytag repairman. The last CF fork failure I had was more than a decade ago -- and it resulted from a handmade, multi-piece fork being assembled without bonding agent. That's the problem with hand-made products. Humans can make mistakes. No CF frame failures in 20+ years of representing Trek and Specialized in Oregon.

Oh I forgot. I had a broken fork maybe five years ago, but that doesn't count because the guy got a dog leash wrapped up in his front wheel. I'm telling you, we should outlaw dogs -- and squirrels.

I really want CF frames to fail because I could use the defense work. I've got to cover my son's tuition bill next semester. Maybe I should call Colnago and see if I can defend against TK's claim -- pro hac into California. The truth will out! It was a squirrel -- either here or in Italy!

-- Jay Beattie.

Perhaps if you advertise on late night TV as Earl Schreiber used to do
:-)

I know a shop in Singapore that specializes in refurbishing bicycles,
and as a sideline they repair carbon fiber frames. I asked them about
how frequently they had a repair and they told me "about one a week"
and added that most of them seemed to be Chinese "no-names".
(note: Singapore has population of about 5.5 million and an estimated
1% of commuters are cyclists)

--
cheers,

John B.

On 7/22/2016 2:02 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 09:38:28 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

My question is: If this is so prevalent, why is it that we have not
heard of it before? It has not been on the news, in the papers, in
the bike magazines, or on the Internet.

You maybe haven't heard of it although I have no idea how. This has
been written about thousands of times- hundreds of them in this very
newsgroup (which you, Tom, have participated in for a couple of decades
now). Try searching in your favorite search engine for "carbon fiber
bicycle failure" and you'll find reports, photos, etc. Search for
"carbon fiber failure mode" if you want to know why CFRP products fail
as they do.

In its current form, IMHO, carbon fiber is not an appropriate material
for bicycle load bearing elements (frames, forks, handlebars, stems,
seatposts, etc.) and (at 6'3" and 220 lbs) because of its failure mode
and as such I don't use it. Most of the cycling world disagrees with me
and that's up to them. Most users of CFRP bikes ride them for years
without any problems. Many probably have not looked into failure modes.
But the Consumer Product Safety Comission certainly does; indeed, there
have been a number of recalls of CFRP bike products because of an
identified specific risk of failure causing injury.

You hear a lot about fork, seatpost, and handlebar failures, but not so
much about frame failures.

Since even lifetime warranties cover only manufacturing defects, a lot
of CF frames get replaced long before they would deteriorate and fail.
Just the handlebars swinging around and hitting the top tube will damage
a CF frame and lead to its likely replacement. Pro racers, who don't pay
for their bikes anyway, replace them often.

I suspect that Trek and Specialized greatly over-engineer their
mass-market CF frames to avoid early failures, and perhaps Colnago does
do now too. Just like Cannondale over-engineered their early aluminum
frames with such large dimension tubing to compensate for aluminum's
inherent properties.

In article ,
jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 2:02:19 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 09:38:28 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

My question is: If this is so prevalent, why is it that we have
not heard of it before? It has not been on the news, in the
papers, in the bike magazines, or on the Internet.

You maybe haven't heard of it although I have no idea how. This
has been written about thousands of times- hundreds of them
in this very newsgroup (which you, Tom, have participated in
for a couple of decades now). Try searching in your favorite
search engine for "carbon fiber bicycle failure" and you'll find
reports, photos, etc. Search for "carbon fiber failure mode" if
you want to know why CFRP products fail as they do.

There are entirely too few Trek and Specialized CF frame failures.
I'm sitting here in my office, twiddling my thumbs, waiting for the
next lawsuit. It's like being the Maytag repairman.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I had to look this up, as I'm from an alien culture.

However shouldn't this be the Maytag salesman[1] :-)

[1] See the commentator comment:

Unfortunately things change, and, after some major quality
hiccups, now it's the Maytag salesman who is bemoaning his
loneliness.

in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maytag#Ol.27_Lonely
--
Dennis Davis

On 7/24/2016 12:01 AM, Dennis Davis wrote:
In article ,
jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 2:02:19 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 09:38:28 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

My question is: If this is so prevalent, why is it that we have
not heard of it before? It has not been on the news, in the
papers, in the bike magazines, or on the Internet.

You maybe haven't heard of it although I have no idea how. This
has been written about thousands of times- hundreds of them
in this very newsgroup (which you, Tom, have participated in
for a couple of decades now). Try searching in your favorite
search engine for "carbon fiber bicycle failure" and you'll find
reports, photos, etc. Search for "carbon fiber failure mode" if
you want to know why CFRP products fail as they do.

There are entirely too few Trek and Specialized CF frame failures.
I'm sitting here in my office, twiddling my thumbs, waiting for the
next lawsuit. It's like being the Maytag repairman.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I had to look this up, as I'm from an alien culture.

It all changed when Maytag entered the front-loader market and when they
were purchased by Whirlpool. The Maytag repairman is no longer lonely.
There are now more common parts between different branded appliances
from Whirlpool (Maytag, KitchenAid, Jenn-Air, Amana, Estate, and
Hotpoint, among others).

Personally, for laundry appliances I now buy commercial grade Speed
Queen appliances. Not sold in stores, you have to get them from a
distributor that sells to commercial customers, but they'll sell to
anyone. No labor warranty, just a three year parts warranty. But they
are easy to fix if they ever break, and they rarely break when used in a
home, since they're designed for continuous use in laundromats, military
bases, hospitals, etc.. I had a set in townhouse I rent out as well and
my tenants asked me to buy them LG appliances. I just laughed. I told
them that if they wanted to buy their own washer/dryer they could and I
would sell the commercial machines, which I did. The next tenant gets to
buy their own machines.


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