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Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 30th 04, 09:18 AM
Bill Baka
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Default Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 03:06:54 GMT, AustinMN wrote:

R15757 blurted out without thinking:
Luigi de Guzman wrote in part:

I cannot overstate the cross-traffic hazard; a car wishing to turn
right on to the roadway isn't looking for a bicycle coming at him from
the wrong side on a sidepath, moving at 15-25 mph. He looks left to
check for oncoming traffic, sees none, and drives out--

Into you.

Only if you're stupid enough to actually ride in front of
a car with a driver who is looking the other direction
and who is obviously preparing to pull out.


So, you never ride in front of a stopped car about to turn right?
Because
this is exactly what every driver is doing. They are looking for
relevant
traffic, which, in a right-turn, is coming from the left. The only
reason
to look right is to check for pedestrians, and that only requires looking
five feet down the road.

Austin

When that happens I either slow way down and signal the driver to go
ahead or drive behind him if it is clear. As I mentioned I will get
off the bike if the situation warrants it. I am not a speed freak who
has to do 25mph ALL the time. By myself and with the occasional
tailwind I have exceeded the 25mph limit sometimes but do not make it
a habit. I learned that even with one of my motorcycles you are still
invisible to most auto drivers and bikes are no different.
Bill Baka


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  #22  
Old July 30th 04, 09:24 AM
Bill Baka
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Default Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 23:56:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

R15757 wrote:

Luigi de Guzman wrote in part: I cannot overstate the cross-traffic
hazard; a car wishing to turn
right on to the roadway isn't looking for a bicycle coming at him from
the wrong side on a sidepath, moving at 15-25 mph. He looks left to
check for oncoming traffic, sees none, and drives out--

Into you.

Only if you're stupid enough to actually ride in front of a car with a
driver who is looking the other direction and who is obviously
preparing to pull out.


... or who is UN-obviously preparing to pull out.

Seems to me the choices a

a) make your own back-assward rules, and stop for every vehicle that
might under any circumstances come at you from any direction. (Sounds
_very_ slow and inconvenient)

b) make your own back-assward rules and rely on your keenly honed,
super-human reflexes to save you from trouble (Yeah, right!)

c) ride according to the rules of the road, so people can actually give
you right of way, anticipate your moves, see you where you're expected
to be, etc.

I pick the third one. If nothing else, it's proven safer, and it's a
lot less hassle.


Yeah, C) would be the logical choice but I have been hit from behind
by a teenager in a lowered truck. I was already on the farthest right
side of the road, crossing some rr tracks and he had no oncoming traffic
and could have moved into the other lane but didn't bother.
His outside rear view mirror smacked my elbow and gave me a sizable
welt, but his mirror was knocked loose and dangling. I was riding to
the letter of the law and it didn't prevent me from getting hit.
The insult was when I tried to file a police report and they totally
blew me off. I guess if I had called 911 for an ambulance they might
have made something out of it.
Bill Baka


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  #24  
Old July 30th 04, 09:31 AM
Bill Baka
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Default Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 04:48:52 GMT, Timothy J. Lee
wrote:

In article ,
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote:
Alex Rodriguez wrote in message
...
WRONG! It is not safer to ride against traffic. Hopefully this
cyclist
will figure out the error of his ways before he gets hurt, or causes
seomeone
else to get hurt.


Yes it is safer. Cause then they can see any car headed towards them.
When they're on the right side, the cars are coming from their rear.


It is well known from many studies that it is much more dangerous to
ride a bicycle against traffic than it is to ride a bicycle with traffic.
A wrong way bicyclist is coming from an unexpected direction at every
intersection and adds his/her speed to the other party's speed in the
head-on crash that s/he risks. For a bicyclist, being rear-ended is
much less common than crashing in an intersection.


I don't ride on the wrong side where there are street intersections,
only in the country where everyone is doing 55-65mph. At those
speeds it is irrelevant whether the speed is additive or not,
especially if you go under the car. Even when I am driving one of
my cars or motorcycles there are plenty of really bad drivers out
there, accidents waiting to happen.
Bill Baka




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  #25  
Old July 30th 04, 12:37 PM
Luigi de Guzman
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Default Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes

On 30 Jul 2004 06:37:08 GMT, (R15757) wrote:

Here's an idea: instead of riding in front of the grills of
cars, the drivers of which have their necks craned in
the opposite direction, ride behind them. Eureka!

And, yes, if there is no room to ride behind, you will
just have to stop and wait rather than take your
chances in front of that bumper. Yes, this is less than
optimally convenient. It would be better to be in the
street. But what if you're trying to get somewhere
down a one-way street? To ride only in the street
means you would have to go all the way around the
block.


Sure. I'd do the same in my car.

I don't like weaving between cars travelling in a direction
perpendicular to mine. It's that simple. You can call me a moron if
you like, but I have had no bad cross-traffic encounters since I have
been riding in the roadways.


Riding sidewalks and sidepaths comes with its own set
of special problems--doesn't mean it can't be done
though.


Problems that most of the time, I don't want.


Rules are nice. The uncritical faith in traffic law that I
see often on this newsgroup is dangerous, however.


In the event that something should go wrong, I'd like to prove that I
was following the law. It makes establishing guilt that much easier.

I don't understand this stubborn insistence against riding like
regular traffic. I did it in London--a major city, with heavy
automobile traffic everywhere--and I never had any problems.

-Luigi
  #26  
Old July 30th 04, 12:43 PM
Luigi de Guzman
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Default Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes

On 30 Jul 2004 06:02:04 GMT, (R15757) wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:

c) ride according to the rules of the road, so people can actually give
you right of way, anticipate your moves, see you where you're expected
to be, etc.

Agreed that (c) is best, but...

Riding according to the rules of the road means that
people will give me the right of way and see me?

What planet are you on?



This one.

It's worked well for me. People have given me the right of way: in
four-way stops, uncontrolled intersections. Left-turning cars and
trucks (!), whose turns would cross my path, have ceded me the right
of way. People have passed me at respectable distances. Yes,
Virginia, there is a Uniform Vehicle Code.


Incidentally; this does not mean that I'm not watching cross-traffic
roll up to uncontrolled intersections as I'm riding through
them--riding in the road doesn't mean you can ride with your eyes
shut.

What it does enable you--and everyone else, two wheels or four--to do
is predict how everyone else in the roadway is likely to move, and
anticipate those movements. Riding right-way on the road eliminates a
whole raft of possible moves for each party, and makes anticipation
easier.


-Luigi

"So first of all let me assert my firm belief that
the only thing we have to fear. . .is fear itself. . .
nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes
needed efforts to convert retreat into advance."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1st Inaugural Address



curiously,
Robert


  #27  
Old July 30th 04, 02:30 PM
AustinMN
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Default Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes

Bill Baka wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 03:06:54 GMT, AustinMN wrote:

R15757 blurted out without thinking:
Luigi de Guzman wrote in part:

I cannot overstate the cross-traffic hazard; a car wishing to turn
right on to the roadway isn't looking for a bicycle coming at him from
the wrong side on a sidepath, moving at 15-25 mph. He looks left to
check for oncoming traffic, sees none, and drives out--

Into you.

Only if you're stupid enough to actually ride in front of
a car with a driver who is looking the other direction
and who is obviously preparing to pull out.


So, you never ride in front of a stopped car about to turn right?
Because
this is exactly what every driver is doing. They are looking for
relevant
traffic, which, in a right-turn, is coming from the left. The only
reason
to look right is to check for pedestrians, and that only requires

looking
five feet down the road.

Austin

When that happens I either slow way down and signal the driver to go
ahead or drive behind him if it is clear. As I mentioned I will get
off the bike if the situation warrants it. I am not a speed freak who
has to do 25mph ALL the time. By myself and with the occasional
tailwind I have exceeded the 25mph limit sometimes but do not make it
a habit. I learned that even with one of my motorcycles you are still
invisible to most auto drivers and bikes are no different.
Bill Baka


You are missing an important detail. If you stop 10 feet (3 meters) short
of the intersection, a significant percentage of right-turning drivers will
still hit you. You do not have to be in front of them, you just need to be
where they are neither expecting you nor looking for you. A classic
situation where a wrong-way driver is in danger no matter what he does to
compensate.

Austin

  #28  
Old July 30th 04, 02:34 PM
AustinMN
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Default Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes

R15757 wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

c) ride according to the rules of the road, so people can actually give
you right of way, anticipate your moves, see you where you're expected
to be, etc.

Agreed that (c) is best, but...

Riding according to the rules of the road means that
people will give me the right of way and see me?

What planet are you on?


Riding contrary to the flow of traffic GUARANTEES that people will not see
you nor will they give you right of way (because they, um, won't see you).

Get this, please: The single biggest reason for traffic law is to make the
behavior of other traffic predictable. As soon as you decide to ignore the
law, you become unpredictable, and therefore by definition, dangerous. I
know you won't listen, but you are a hazard to everyone, not just yourself.

Austin

  #29  
Old July 30th 04, 02:40 PM
AustinMN
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Default Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes

Bill Baka wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 23:56:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski
Yeah, C) would be the logical choice but I have been hit from behind
by a teenager in a lowered truck. I was already on the farthest right
side of the road, crossing some rr tracks and he had no oncoming traffic
and could have moved into the other lane but didn't bother.
His outside rear view mirror smacked my elbow and gave me a sizable
welt, but his mirror was knocked loose and dangling. I was riding to
the letter of the law and it didn't prevent me from getting hit.
The insult was when I tried to file a police report and they totally
blew me off. I guess if I had called 911 for an ambulance they might
have made something out of it.
Bill Baka


So every time a law-abiding person is involved in a traffic accident, it
proves that the law is useless and we should all ignore it?

Austin

  #30  
Old July 30th 04, 02:57 PM
AustinMN
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Default Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes

Bill Baka wrote:
The road where I have to go wrong way has only 3 driveways in 3 miles,
so I know where to slow down and pay attention. I cruise at about 16mph
but slow down to about 5 when passing driveways. There are no crossroads
to worry about, being very rural. Another part of the problem is that if
I do go on the right side in the afternoon the sun is setting directly
in front of me so someone might not see me due to the glare. I like to
be seen and hence avoided.


Let's do a little math. Assuming traffic on this road is posted at 40 MPH,
which, for most of the US, means traffic is going 50-55 MPH. Traffic is
approaching you (because you are traveling 16 MPH) at a closing speed of 71
MPH. If there's no place for you to go, but you and the oncoming traffic
have to come to a full stop (from 71 MPH) to avoid a collision. But
traveling in the correct direction, the closing speed is only 39 MPH. In
the event that there is no place to go, approaching traffic only has to slow
by 39 MPH to avoid a collision, and they will have about twice as long to do
it. Even in this situation, where there are no side streets, you are in
more danger travelling the wrong way.

I am extrememly cautious when that is a possibility, and sometimes
just get off the bike and act like a pedestrian in a crosswalk.
It doesn't hurt my pride that I have to walk the bike a few feet
once in a while.


Although there are intersections where I do this. There are local traffic
lights with multiple turn lanes where the speed limit on the main street is
65 MPH. No, I am not going to take the lane, I am going to pull to the
right, push the button, and walk across. You can do it from the correct
side of the road. BTW, I don't feel in any significant danger (nor have I
ever had an incident) even though, with a speed limit of 65MPH, there are
vehicles approaching me from behind at 80 MPH.

Several squealing-brake confrontations converted me from a
bikepath-dweller to a road user. I have had no such trouble at
intersections since I started following the law.


This is California where motor vehicles are king and bicycles
are viewed as a nuisance by most of the motorists. I wish they
would put in bike paths but with the budget this year that just
isn't going to happen.


Bike paths have been shown (in most cases) to be more dangerous than the
road. Bike lanes help when located and used appropriately, but bike paths
in the US have a horrible safety record.

I avoid traffic like the plague, but I have to endure about 30
miles each way to get to my gravel and dirt playground where
there is not only no traffic but no people, and no Cell phone signal.
I live in Northern California 40 miles north of Sacramento and
have to ride around Beale Air Force Base to get to the fun stuff.
Putting the bike in one of my cars would just be cheating.


Try following John Allen's advice, just once. His book has been adopted by
several states as their "bicycle operator's manual". Oh, and it just happens
to be the law.

http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/index.htm

Austin

 




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