A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

my fixie doesn't need improvement



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old February 18th 18, 08:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 8:05:14 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-17 18:28, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 20:19:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/17/2018 2:58 PM, Joerg wrote:

So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift
from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys

I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with
indexed ones on the handlebar or brifters.

With friction, you may be able to slam a shift faster across the entire
cassette under the right circumstances. But that tiny time advantage
will be lost after just a few normal shifts.

It doesn't matter to me for my riding. I still use friction shifters on
several bikes. But I certainly don't do it because of faster shifts.


I even read a description of shifting both front and rear derailers at
the same time. Reach across the frame, thumb on one shifter, finger on
the other.



That's what I wrote elsewhere in this thread and it is what I do a lot.
With one hand while the other remains on the handlebar. A friend had a
bike with its the friction levers on the stem so you could operate them
with your thumbs while leaving both hands on the top bar.


Twist your hand and shift the rear derailer from the
smallest cog to the largest and with the same movement the front from
the largest to the smallest.

Think how many time you shift from the highest gear to the lowest in
one fell swoop on your usual Sunday ride :-?



Not on my Sunday rides but it does on my weekday ride. I regularly stall
the MTB because I can't slam it from high to very low fast enough,
unless I know the terrain, am willing to pre-shift before the creek bed
and travel accordingly slower. So I try to "beat it" by shifting at the
last seconds when I think I'll have just enough time to get through all
the gears, with the double-ratcheting that Deore M591 RapidFire allows.
It ain't as "rapid fire" as friction. Sometimes it works, sometimes it
doesn't. Never had that problem with friction when in the days when I
used my road bike of dirt paths (had to).

That's when I wish I had a Rohloff. OTOH 1500 bucks dampens that desire
and on a full suspension MTB it would get complicated anyhow. Plus it
won't get me the same gear range.


The good part is that you can probably find some friction shifters for your MTB in a junk bin at that olde-tyme bike shop in Folsom. You can become known on the trail as the friction shifter guy. With the cotton t-shirt and shorts thing, along with the five pound battery, panniers, heart-lung machine, rope, three gallons of water, nail and rock for chain repair, you'll be like the new Road Warrior, challenging the whimps with index shifting.

-- Jay Beattie.

Ads
  #42  
Old February 18th 18, 11:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,945
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 23:55:46 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

That is an accurate description how it went in the old days. For me 30
years ago. I know no serious cyclists these days that do not allow
themselves STI shifters or the like because they can break and keep
riding Fred Flintstone bikes. Only people that are into vintage do.


I use DT shifters on all my bikes except for my tanem, which came with
STI. I bought a bike with STI in 1992 when I started racing and it was
a decided advantage over DT shifters in competitive situations. I was
never that comfortable with STI's using the break lever for shifts; I
preferred the Campy Ergo system and switched to that for the rest of my
racing career.

Since stopping racing, though, I've converted everything back to DT
shifters. I use a handlebar bag on two of my bikes and the extra cables
interfere with that. Since I'm not racing, the minor inconvenience of
reaching down to shift is a moot point for me. Plus- maybe this is a
function of my generation- I prefer the looks of DT shifters due to the
reduced cables sticking out the front. Once we have wireless shifters
that are reliable, then I'd probably think about brifters again (this
doesn't necessarily mean bluetooth or something like that; I think it
would be easily possible to connect an electrical circuit through the
frame to control the derailleurs. Possibly using something like the
Rene Herse circuit for powering headlights from a rear triangle-mounted
generator, which used a brush inside the headtube as the connector
from the frame to the fork).
  #43  
Old February 19th 18, 02:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 10:43:30 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/18/2018 2:55 AM, wrote:
I know no serious cyclists these days that do not allow themselves STI shifters or the like because they can break and keep riding Fred Flintstone bikes. Only people that are into vintage do.


Perhaps it depends on your definition of a "serious cyclist."

I have no STI-style shifters. I have some bikes with index shifting, but
the two bikes I ride most often still have friction shifters.

It's not because I'm into vintage bikes (although some of my bikes are
very old indeed). It's primarily because what I have keeps on working
just fine for my purposes. And in general, I value versatility,
reliability and repairability.

I recall an answer that Frank Berto gave in his bike tech Q&A column
back in the early 1990s. A person asked how to convert his Cannondale
touring bike (like the one I own) to index shifting. Frank Berto said,
essentially, "Why? Don't bother. Your bike shifts great. It's not worth
the trouble."

And illogical or not, I do worry about this
most-complicated-mechanism-on-a-bike breaking. I've had to replace
broken shift cables far, far from home, but I don't know if I could pull
it off with STI. I've also had to help fix the STI shifters of two
friends, one being on a brand new bike bought just a couple days before.
The friend was leaving that day on a long bike tour and the shop was
closed. Those incidents didn't inspire confidence.

Granted, those things happened long ago. I have countless friends with
STI (etc.) and no problems. I suppose if I were to buy another bike now,
I'd get STI-style shifting. But it seems like a dozen or so bikes is
enough for one household.


I suspect that the answer is, "depends on what you are doing". Jay's
agonizing description of huffing and puffing up a hill and then
shifting is, I'm sure, perfectly accurate, but riding, as I do, on all
almost perfectly flat terrain the question of shifting becomes almost
redundant as I might shift once or twice in a 2 - 3 hour ride.

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #44  
Old February 19th 18, 03:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 5:05:03 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 10:43:30 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/18/2018 2:55 AM, wrote:
I know no serious cyclists these days that do not allow themselves STI shifters or the like because they can break and keep riding Fred Flintstone bikes. Only people that are into vintage do.


Perhaps it depends on your definition of a "serious cyclist."

I have no STI-style shifters. I have some bikes with index shifting, but
the two bikes I ride most often still have friction shifters.

It's not because I'm into vintage bikes (although some of my bikes are
very old indeed). It's primarily because what I have keeps on working
just fine for my purposes. And in general, I value versatility,
reliability and repairability.

I recall an answer that Frank Berto gave in his bike tech Q&A column
back in the early 1990s. A person asked how to convert his Cannondale
touring bike (like the one I own) to index shifting. Frank Berto said,
essentially, "Why? Don't bother. Your bike shifts great. It's not worth
the trouble."

And illogical or not, I do worry about this
most-complicated-mechanism-on-a-bike breaking. I've had to replace
broken shift cables far, far from home, but I don't know if I could pull
it off with STI. I've also had to help fix the STI shifters of two
friends, one being on a brand new bike bought just a couple days before.
The friend was leaving that day on a long bike tour and the shop was
closed. Those incidents didn't inspire confidence.

Granted, those things happened long ago. I have countless friends with
STI (etc.) and no problems. I suppose if I were to buy another bike now,
I'd get STI-style shifting. But it seems like a dozen or so bikes is
enough for one household.


I suspect that the answer is, "depends on what you are doing". Jay's
agonizing description of huffing and puffing up a hill and then
shifting is, I'm sure, perfectly accurate, but riding, as I do, on all
almost perfectly flat terrain the question of shifting becomes almost
redundant as I might shift once or twice in a 2 - 3 hour ride.

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.


BTW, over the years and with incipient decrepitude, I have learned to spin more than grind up hills out of the saddle -- which makes STI even more beneficial. It allows me to sit comfortably, hands on the levers shifting like crazy. Even when I'm paper-boying up some hill, I don't have to make much of an effort to get the next gear, if I have one. On the flats, STI/Ergo is not that important unless you're sprinting against someone, but it is convenient. Levers do die, and they're not cheap. There are reasons to own DT shifters, although friction instead of indexed is pretty old-school.

I was over at River City the other day, buying odd-ball parts to rebuild the Roubaix after its holiday with the meth-heads, and that store has endless olde-tyme racing bikes hanging around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTXgfN4p1cw&t=317s (a few at 3:00). I don't look at them and get all misty-eyed. They make my knees sore just looking at them. All I can think of is the stuff I'd have to do -- respace the dropouts, get some boss adapters, change the drivetrain, etc., etc.

Somethings I don't like about the modern era -- like internal cables, hydraulic hoses and some other stuff. I could see getting a modern steel commuter like a Soma Fogcutter and enjoying all the external cables.

BTW, I have never been so frustrated as I was was this morning running new hydraulic hose through the Roubaix frame. Just fishing the hose took forever. You have to be a f****** bicycle plumber. It's like fishing low voltage wire or PEX tubing through a finished wall, except harder. At least I didn't have to drill any holes, although I wanted to.

-- Jay Beattie.



  #45  
Old February 19th 18, 04:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 18:19:48 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 5:05:03 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 10:43:30 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/18/2018 2:55 AM, wrote:
I know no serious cyclists these days that do not allow themselves STI shifters or the like because they can break and keep riding Fred Flintstone bikes. Only people that are into vintage do.

Perhaps it depends on your definition of a "serious cyclist."

I have no STI-style shifters. I have some bikes with index shifting, but
the two bikes I ride most often still have friction shifters.

It's not because I'm into vintage bikes (although some of my bikes are
very old indeed). It's primarily because what I have keeps on working
just fine for my purposes. And in general, I value versatility,
reliability and repairability.

I recall an answer that Frank Berto gave in his bike tech Q&A column
back in the early 1990s. A person asked how to convert his Cannondale
touring bike (like the one I own) to index shifting. Frank Berto said,
essentially, "Why? Don't bother. Your bike shifts great. It's not worth
the trouble."

And illogical or not, I do worry about this
most-complicated-mechanism-on-a-bike breaking. I've had to replace
broken shift cables far, far from home, but I don't know if I could pull
it off with STI. I've also had to help fix the STI shifters of two
friends, one being on a brand new bike bought just a couple days before.
The friend was leaving that day on a long bike tour and the shop was
closed. Those incidents didn't inspire confidence.

Granted, those things happened long ago. I have countless friends with
STI (etc.) and no problems. I suppose if I were to buy another bike now,
I'd get STI-style shifting. But it seems like a dozen or so bikes is
enough for one household.


I suspect that the answer is, "depends on what you are doing". Jay's
agonizing description of huffing and puffing up a hill and then
shifting is, I'm sure, perfectly accurate, but riding, as I do, on all
almost perfectly flat terrain the question of shifting becomes almost
redundant as I might shift once or twice in a 2 - 3 hour ride.

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.


BTW, over the years and with incipient decrepitude, I have learned to spin more than grind up hills out of the saddle -- which makes STI even more beneficial. It allows me to sit comfortably, hands on the levers shifting like crazy. Even when I'm paper-boying up some hill, I don't have to make much of an effort to get the next gear, if I have one. On the flats, STI/Ergo is not that important unless you're sprinting against someone, but it is convenient. Levers do die, and they're not cheap. There are reasons to own DT shifters, although friction instead of indexed is pretty old-school.

I was over at River City the other day, buying odd-ball parts to rebuild the Roubaix after its holiday with the meth-heads, and that store has endless olde-tyme racing bikes hanging around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTXgfN4p1cw&t=317s (a few at 3:00). I don't look at them and get all misty-eyed. They make my knees sore just looking at them. All I can think of is the stuff I'd have to do -- respace the dropouts, get some boss adapters, change the drivetrain, etc., etc.

Somethings I don't like about the modern era -- like internal cables, hydraulic hoses and some other stuff. I could see getting a modern steel commuter like a Soma Fogcutter and enjoying all the external cables.

BTW, I have never been so frustrated as I was was this morning running new hydraulic hose through the Roubaix frame. Just fishing the hose took forever. You have to be a f****** bicycle plumber. It's like fishing low voltage wire or PEX tubing through a finished wall, except harder. At least I didn't have to drill any holes, although I wanted to.

-- Jay Beattie.


Before you pull the old tubing out tie a string to it :-(


--
Cheers,

John B.

  #46  
Old February 19th 18, 04:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 2/18/2018 10:12 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 18:19:48 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 5:05:03 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 10:43:30 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/18/2018 2:55 AM, wrote:
I know no serious cyclists these days that do not allow themselves STI shifters or the like because they can break and keep riding Fred Flintstone bikes. Only people that are into vintage do.

Perhaps it depends on your definition of a "serious cyclist."

I have no STI-style shifters. I have some bikes with index shifting, but
the two bikes I ride most often still have friction shifters.

It's not because I'm into vintage bikes (although some of my bikes are
very old indeed). It's primarily because what I have keeps on working
just fine for my purposes. And in general, I value versatility,
reliability and repairability.

I recall an answer that Frank Berto gave in his bike tech Q&A column
back in the early 1990s. A person asked how to convert his Cannondale
touring bike (like the one I own) to index shifting. Frank Berto said,
essentially, "Why? Don't bother. Your bike shifts great. It's not worth
the trouble."

And illogical or not, I do worry about this
most-complicated-mechanism-on-a-bike breaking. I've had to replace
broken shift cables far, far from home, but I don't know if I could pull
it off with STI. I've also had to help fix the STI shifters of two
friends, one being on a brand new bike bought just a couple days before.
The friend was leaving that day on a long bike tour and the shop was
closed. Those incidents didn't inspire confidence.

Granted, those things happened long ago. I have countless friends with
STI (etc.) and no problems. I suppose if I were to buy another bike now,
I'd get STI-style shifting. But it seems like a dozen or so bikes is
enough for one household.

I suspect that the answer is, "depends on what you are doing". Jay's
agonizing description of huffing and puffing up a hill and then
shifting is, I'm sure, perfectly accurate, but riding, as I do, on all
almost perfectly flat terrain the question of shifting becomes almost
redundant as I might shift once or twice in a 2 - 3 hour ride.

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.


BTW, over the years and with incipient decrepitude, I have learned to spin more than grind up hills out of the saddle -- which makes STI even more beneficial. It allows me to sit comfortably, hands on the levers shifting like crazy. Even when I'm paper-boying up some hill, I don't have to make much of an effort to get the next gear, if I have one. On the flats, STI/Ergo is not that important unless you're sprinting against someone, but it is convenient. Levers do die, and they're not cheap. There are reasons to own DT shifters, although friction instead of indexed is pretty old-school.

I was over at River City the other day, buying odd-ball parts to rebuild the Roubaix after its holiday with the meth-heads, and that store has endless olde-tyme racing bikes hanging around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTXgfN4p1cw&t=317s (a few at 3:00). I don't look at them and get all misty-eyed. They make my knees sore just looking at them. All I can think of is the stuff I'd have to do -- respace the dropouts, get some boss adapters, change the drivetrain, etc., etc.

Somethings I don't like about the modern era -- like internal cables, hydraulic hoses and some other stuff. I could see getting a modern steel commuter like a Soma Fogcutter and enjoying all the external cables.

BTW, I have never been so frustrated as I was was this morning running new hydraulic hose through the Roubaix frame. Just fishing the hose took forever. You have to be a f****** bicycle plumber. It's like fishing low voltage wire or PEX tubing through a finished wall, except harder. At least I didn't have to drill any holes, although I wanted to.

-- Jay Beattie.


Before you pull the old tubing out tie a string to it :-(


Exactly what I was thinking.

ISTR someone saying that if you failed to do that, you could possibly
use a vacuum cleaner to suck a thread through the intended path of the
hose, then use it to pull the hose through. Not that I've tried that. I
can't imagine buying a bike that required that.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #47  
Old February 19th 18, 04:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 2/18/2018 8:04 PM, John B. wrote:

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.


Even in hilly terrain, STI is not mandatory for non-competitive success.
I've crossed the Appalachians with friction shifting.

People succeeded in riding in hilly terrain even before there were
derailleurs, let alone STI.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #48  
Old February 19th 18, 06:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 7:45:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/18/2018 8:04 PM, John B. wrote:

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.


Even in hilly terrain, STI is not mandatory for non-competitive success.
I've crossed the Appalachians with friction shifting.

People succeeded in riding in hilly terrain even before there were
derailleurs, let alone STI.


Nothing is mandatory. I've crossed all the major mountain ranges with friction shifters, too. I just prefer STI. And I would say that it would be handicap to race without them.

BTW, I would have used the old brake hose to pull the new, but the meth-heads pulled the old tube. Why? Who knows. The thief or an associate cut the tube at the bars, took the rear caliper and yanked the tube out of the frame. The grommets are lost, and by pulling out the hose, the thief left the foam outer hose (a foam sleeve that keeps the hose from rattling) inside the frame. I had to fish that out with my Harbor Freight dental tool.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #49  
Old February 19th 18, 08:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 21:14:44 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 7:45:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/18/2018 8:04 PM, John B. wrote:

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.


Even in hilly terrain, STI is not mandatory for non-competitive success.
I've crossed the Appalachians with friction shifting.

People succeeded in riding in hilly terrain even before there were
derailleurs, let alone STI.


Nothing is mandatory. I've crossed all the major mountain ranges with friction shifters, too. I just prefer STI. And I would say that it would be handicap to race without them.

BTW, I would have used the old brake hose to pull the new, but the meth-heads pulled the old tube. Why? Who knows. The thief or an associate cut the tube at the bars, took the rear caliper and yanked the tube out of the frame. The grommets are lost, and by pulling out the hose, the thief left the foam outer hose (a foam sleeve that keeps the hose from rattling) inside the frame. I had to fish that out with my Harbor Freight dental tool.

-- Jay Beattie.


Boy, these modern bikes sound complex. I don't have any pipes or tubes
but my cable (1) just tie to the top tube :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #50  
Old February 19th 18, 08:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 22:45:55 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/18/2018 8:04 PM, John B. wrote:

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.


Even in hilly terrain, STI is not mandatory for non-competitive success.
I've crossed the Appalachians with friction shifting.

People succeeded in riding in hilly terrain even before there were
derailleurs, let alone STI.


But my experience was that we pushed up a lot of the hills :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SELF IMPROVEMENT RETURNS ! datakoll Techniques 1 November 19th 09 02:06 AM
improvement of countries Andre Racing 25 September 20th 08 02:50 AM
Driver Improvement Schemes rola UK 4 February 15th 07 09:15 PM
Improvement :-D wafflycat UK 16 March 30th 05 11:04 AM
Fixie frame found, Fuji Questions, and WTB fixie cranks, wheels,bb, seat,& rear rack Tim Lines Techniques 0 August 17th 03 09:52 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.