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#1091
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 06:14:15 GMT, (Bill Z.)
wrote in message : Are you really so daft, immature, and dishonest as to not know what plagerism is and why respectable people don't do it? ^^^^^^^^^ I suspect he can even spell it. I can. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound |
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#1093
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:27:59 GMT, (Bill Z.)
wrote in message : Depends which Bill. The one with whom the ping-pong has been carrying on for months - Zaumen. You've got caught that way before, I seem to recall. He didn't get caught, and the "ping-pong" is kind of a lie since I've been ignoring a good fraction of your posts. It was more a continual rant on your part. My word - Zaumen distorting the facts. Who could possibly have predicted that? Of course you evade a lot of what is said - especially where it includes evidence or (worse still) calls for you to cite evidence. But ping-pong it is; I am as determined to challenge your bull**** as you are to repeat it, regardless of how often your "facts" turn out to be fantasy. But you are an moderately good comedy helmet troll, and so provide a valuable service to your own ego. Er, I mean society. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound |
#1094
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:29:42 GMT, (Bill Z.)
wrote in message : As I said, due to *budget problems* a desirable program got scaled back. I bet the helmet promotion didn't. Mainly because it's paid for by SafeKids, funded by Bell. Nonsense - it got scaled back by having city employees handle it and taking out some or all of the on-road classes. It still covers accident avoidance. You really are determined to miss the point, aren't you? So, who is running the WHO Cycle Training Imitative? Who is pressing for mandatory cycle training laws? How many schools forbid children to cycle to school unless they have passed Effective Cycling? How many general cycle safety posters do you see posted in schools and youth clubs? I am a school governor, and all cycling matters at the school pass in front of me. In the last year we've had six sets of helmet promotion literature and not one promoting general cycle safety. A woman is coming to the Spring Fair to train children on how to wear helmets; there will be no maintenance or skills training provided. And yet every evaluation I have seen of the merits of various cycle safety measures puts helmets last. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound |
#1095
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Just zis Guy wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:25:44 -0800, Benjamin Lewis wrote in message : I'm at a loss why anyone should care that if you cycle more, you're at a greater yearly risk of sustaining a cycling related injury. Not only is this completely obvious, it's not interesting or useful for anything. Obvious? You think? Risk per what? per mile? Yearly risk is what I said. I'd be amazed if that was not substantially lower for a high-mileage cyclist. Ditto per hour. Per year? It would depend on how many miles of low risk-per-mile cycling the high mileage cyclist does compared to the low-mileage cyclist and their higher risk-per-mile cycling. Last time I checked there was no binary split between high and low mileage cyclists, so it would depend very much on where exactly you draw the line between low and high mileage. I'm still reasonable certain that if you plotted yearly risk against yearly mileage for the "average cyclist", the graph would be monotonically increasing, although with a slope of less than one. I agree that the hourly or per mile risk would go down. -- Benjamin Lewis Tip the world over on its side and everything loose will land in Los Angeles. -- Frank Lloyd Wright |
#1096
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"Just zis Guy, you know?" writes:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:15:20 GMT, (Bill Z.) wrote in message : Err, Benjamin, the discussion is about helmets and biases you get in statistics regarding the comparison of different groups of cyclists. On which subject I recommend the 1989 Seattle study, a very good example of these biases in action. You recommend that one? Good for you. -- My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB |
#1097
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"Just zis Guy, you know?" writes:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:26:52 GMT, (Bill Z.) wrote in message : while one high mileage cyclist has a greater chance (other things being equal, which they are not) of being hit than one low mileage cyclist, there are more low mileage cyclists. And they ride worse... Irrelevant. So you say. I am still waiting for any kind of evidence to back up your arm-waving, though. The text you snipped immediately after "Irrelevant" was, "Forester points out in _Effective Cycling_ that skill buys you a factor of 5 safety margin, whereas high mileage cyclists ride a lot more than 5 times further per year than low mileage cyclists." I'll skip the rest of your garbage today. You've just proven yourself to be incapable of a serious dicussion. By snipping that and pretending I didn't say it, you've proven yourself to be as dishonest as usual. -- My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB |
#1098
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Benjamin Lewis wrote: I'm still reasonable certain that if you plotted yearly risk against yearly mileage for the "average cyclist", the graph would be monotonically increasing, although with a slope of less than one. I agree that the hourly or per mile risk would go down. And speaking of _relative_ risk, I happened across another paper comparing risk of various activities. This one is "Injury Rates from Walking, Gardening, Weightlifting, Outdoor Bicycling, and Aerobics" by Powell et. al., in Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, 1998, vol 30, pp 1246-9. This paper reported the results of a very simple poll. They called some 5000 people, asking questions regarding their participation in the activities listed in the title. They asked which of those activities they had participated in during the past 30 days, and whether they had been injured doing the activity in the past 30 days. Results? First, 20% of those polled at random had ridden a bike in the past 30 days. And, believe it or not, a lower percentage of cyclists had injured themselves than any other group. Here's a little more detail: % participating % of participants injured Aerobics or aerobic dance 14.5 1.4 Gardening or yard work 70.6 1.6 Outdoor bicycle riding 20.2 0.9 Walking for exercise 73.0 1.4 Weightlifting 20.9 2.4 Read that again. By this measure, bicycling is safer than gardening! Bicycling is NOT very dangerous. It does us no good to pretend it is. |
#1099
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Benjamin Lewis writes:
Just zis Guy wrote: I'm still reasonable certain that if you plotted yearly risk against yearly mileage for the "average cyclist", the graph would be monotonically increasing, although with a slope of less than one. I agree that the hourly or per mile risk would go down. If you ploted that for the *same cyclist*, assuming reasonably low accident rates, the slope would be 1. Risk goes down with increased skill. You can find some highly skilled, low mileage cyclists (typically people who have ridden for years, but due to work/personal constraints or some medical condition can't ride as much any more.) Generally, though, skills improve the more you ride, but you can increase your mileage far easier than you can increase your skill level. -- My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB |
#1100
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On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:21:03 GMT, (Bill Z.)
wrote in message : On which subject I recommend the 1989 Seattle study, a very good example of these biases in action. You recommend that one? Good for you. As a study of confounding and biases in a research paper? I can think of no finer example. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound |
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