A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Rides
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

lost in Veneto, Italy



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 20th 05, 11:29 PM
Ken Roberts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default lost in Veneto, Italy

Sharon and I spent a few days going out each riding each day and getting
lost on the many wonderful roads of the Veneto region in northeastern Italy.
It's hard for me to think of a more fun place to be lost on a bicycle. Not
that we were afraid we wouldn't get back to our hotel by the end of the day.
But many times we would arrive at some intersection of pretty roads and not
be sure which one it was on our map. Fortunately there were usually lots of
easy-to-read signs pointing to other named places. So we'd choose one of
those names that was near where we were trying to get to, and that always
worked out for us. Seems like in Veneto it's not critical to know exactly
where you are.

We had spent a week riding in Tuscany (or "Toscana") once before, but we
were excited by what we found in Veneto (and some of the adjoining areas of
Sudtirol / Alto Adige), so Veneto is where we want to go back again for more
riding. Here's why:

* We found it easy to find a wide range of fun riding terrain in Veneto:
from all flat to spectacular mountains, with lots of interesting foothills
in between. Most of the good riding we tried in Tuscany was about hills
(while "ancient hill towns" may be great for tourism, they're not
necessarily much fun for bicycling -- e.g. riding from Radda in Chianti to
Siena, with a ridiculously steep climb into the city of Siena, and then
forced to climb one more hill to back to beds in Radda).

Veneto allowed us to choose our degree of hilliness. Like one day I went 60
km flat all day among the canals and farms of the Brenta river delta between
Padova and Mestre, from gelato-shop to gelato-shop. Another day Sharon and I
rode one of the most spectacular mountain loops of world, the "Sella Ronda"
climbing and descending four high passes near Arabba and Canazei. Another
day we got "lost" in smaller Colli Berici hills southwest of Vicenza, and I
spent another day delightedly exploring the "pre-Alp" foothills between
Vittorio Veneto and Valdobbiadene.

* Veneto has lots of pretty vineyards and farms and hillside villages -- to
us seemed at least as pretty as the best we saw in Tuscany.

* Veneto had much fewer American tourists than we found in Tuscany
(especially Chianti). I'm an American, and I like lots of Americans -- but
seeing lots of them is not why I fly across an ocean. (Other bicyclists who
want the comfort of hearing and speaking English might prefer Chianti -- but
it escapes why an organized bicycle-tour group which is paying for
English-speaking guide-leaders would need that). Of course Veneto had plenty
of tourists around in early September, like any great region of Europe --
but most of them were German-speaking, which Sharon and I don't hear much in
America.

* We saw lots more local Italian people out riding their unfancy "utility"
bicycles, not wearing any special bicycle clothing -- just going to meet
friends at the bar, or shopping in town, or to get out in the sunshine with
their children (who were either seated on the back of their mother's bike,
or riding a bike of their own). Men in business suits and ties, women
wearing dresses and spike heels. (I suspect this ties with the giant mass of
flat land in Veneto.)

That's from our experience: I will gladly accept suggestions for better
bicycling opportunities available in the Tuscany region. (e.g. one great
ride which Veneto cannot replicate is the western half of the island of
Elba, which however does fit the "hilly in Tuscany" pattern).

On this trip, we were following our usual "incorrect" style of bicycle
touring -- with the support of our rental car. It was our observation that
that's what most visiting European bicyclists were doing too -- and most of
the Italians who want to ride the great mountain rides of the Dolomites, do
it with their normal day-trip equipment (which can be pretty minimal). The
number of riders we saw in the famous areas touring in the "correct" way,
with full panniers unsupported by a motor vehicle, was surely less than 2%.
On most of the famous mountain passes in the Dolomites, I saw roughly as
many bikes going up and over them attached to cars as there were being
powered by human muscles. So when we go to Europe, we're riding in the
modern fun European way.

Warning for our fellow "incorrect" bicycle tourists:
Italy (and perhaps other Euro countries) seems to have a law that if
bicycles are being carried on a rack on the rear of a car, then there must
be a big square marker-sign with diagonal red+white stripes over the bike
(at least on the autostrada). We had brought our own car rack with us on the
airplane, but did not have a marker-sign (because we didn't know about it),
and then one rainy night we were confronted by the polizia at an autostrada
rest stop and forced to pay a fine in cash, and required to immediately
purchase a marker-sign (which just happened to be available for sale at that
rest stop). So now we have one for future trips. The tricky step is to
remember to bring heavy string to use to tie the marker-sign to our bicycle.

Ken


Ads
  #2  
Old September 21st 05, 12:06 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default lost in Veneto, Italy

Ken Roberts writes:

Warning for our fellow "incorrect" bicycle tourists: Italy (and
perhaps other Euro countries) seems to have a law that if bicycles
are being carried on a rack on the rear of a car, then there must be
a big square marker-sign with diagonal red+white stripes over the
bike (at least on the autostrada). We had brought our own car rack
with us on the airplane, but did not have a marker-sign (because we
didn't know about it), and then one rainy night we were confronted
by the polizia at an autostrada rest stop and forced to pay a fine
in cash, and required to immediately purchase a marker-sign (which
just happened to be available for sale at that rest stop). So now we
have one for future trips. The tricky step is to remember to bring
heavy string to use to tie the marker-sign to our bicycle.


The same law applies in California and many other states. It says if
there are obstacles behind the rear bumper of the car, a red flag must
be attached to the extremity. In Europe they formalized the vague
"red flag" into a standard warning device. The difference is that our
police doesn't pick nits on this subject. Some do however.

Jobst Brandt
  #3  
Old September 21st 05, 12:44 AM
Rick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default lost in Veneto, Italy


Ken Roberts wrote:
Sharon and I spent a few days going out each riding each day and getting
lost on the many wonderful roads of the Veneto region in northeastern Italy.
It's hard for me to think of a more fun place to be lost on a bicycle. Not
that we were afraid we wouldn't get back to our hotel by the end of the day.
But many times we would arrive at some intersection of pretty roads and not
be sure which one it was on our map. Fortunately there were usually lots of
easy-to-read signs pointing to other named places. So we'd choose one of
those names that was near where we were trying to get to, and that always
worked out for us. Seems like in Veneto it's not critical to know exactly
where you are.

We had spent a week riding in Tuscany (or "Toscana") once before, but we
were excited by what we found in Veneto (and some of the adjoining areas of
Sudtirol / Alto Adige), so Veneto is where we want to go back again for more
riding. Here's why:

* We found it easy to find a wide range of fun riding terrain in Veneto:
from all flat to spectacular mountains, with lots of interesting foothills
in between. Most of the good riding we tried in Tuscany was about hills
(while "ancient hill towns" may be great for tourism, they're not
necessarily much fun for bicycling -- e.g. riding from Radda in Chianti to
Siena, with a ridiculously steep climb into the city of Siena, and then
forced to climb one more hill to back to beds in Radda).


Hills R'Us. Love the hills. Try Umbria - fewer Brits/Americans,
bigger hills.

Veneto allowed us to choose our degree of hilliness. Like one day I went 60
km flat all day among the canals and farms of the Brenta river delta between
Padova and Mestre, from gelato-shop to gelato-shop. Another day Sharon and I
rode one of the most spectacular mountain loops of world, the "Sella Ronda"
climbing and descending four high passes near Arabba and Canazei. Another
day we got "lost" in smaller Colli Berici hills southwest of Vicenza, and I
spent another day delightedly exploring the "pre-Alp" foothills between
Vittorio Veneto and Valdobbiadene.

* Veneto has lots of pretty vineyards and farms and hillside villages -- to
us seemed at least as pretty as the best we saw in Tuscany.

* Veneto had much fewer American tourists than we found in Tuscany
(especially Chianti). I'm an American, and I like lots of Americans -- but
seeing lots of them is not why I fly across an ocean. (Other bicyclists who
want the comfort of hearing and speaking English might prefer Chianti -- but
it escapes why an organized bicycle-tour group which is paying for
English-speaking guide-leaders would need that). Of course Veneto had plenty
of tourists around in early September, like any great region of Europe --
but most of them were German-speaking, which Sharon and I don't hear much in
America.


More Brits than Americans IME. A friend calls Tuscany 'TuscanyShire'
due to the predominance of citizens from the UK.

* We saw lots more local Italian people out riding their unfancy "utility"
bicycles, not wearing any special bicycle clothing -- just going to meet
friends at the bar, or shopping in town, or to get out in the sunshine with
their children (who were either seated on the back of their mother's bike,
or riding a bike of their own). Men in business suits and ties, women
wearing dresses and spike heels. (I suspect this ties with the giant mass of
flat land in Veneto.)

That's from our experience: I will gladly accept suggestions for better
bicycling opportunities available in the Tuscany region. (e.g. one great
ride which Veneto cannot replicate is the western half of the island of
Elba, which however does fit the "hilly in Tuscany" pattern).

On this trip, we were following our usual "incorrect" style of bicycle
touring -- with the support of our rental car. It was our observation that
that's what most visiting European bicyclists were doing too -- and most of
the Italians who want to ride the great mountain rides of the Dolomites, do
it with their normal day-trip equipment (which can be pretty minimal). The
number of riders we saw in the famous areas touring in the "correct" way,
with full panniers unsupported by a motor vehicle, was surely less than 2%.
On most of the famous mountain passes in the Dolomites, I saw roughly as
many bikes going up and over them attached to cars as there were being
powered by human muscles. So when we go to Europe, we're riding in the
modern fun European way.


IMO a better way if you want to travel light is to carry light bags and
use the train for distance transport. E.g., to get into the Dolomites
you can take a train to Longarone or Calalzo, ride to Cortina or
Arabba, then do loops to take in the various passes. If I had to
choose one place to go and ride, it would be in the Dolomites. We did
this with panniers a couple of years back; next trip we will probably
go lighter and just use saddlebags.

- rick

  #4  
Old September 21st 05, 03:20 AM
Ken Roberts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default lost in Veneto, Italy

Rick wrote
More Brits than Americans [ in Tuscany ].


Sharon and I usually enjoy encountering Brits -- again because it's
different for us. But one evening in Chianti after coming in late from a
long ride we could find only one food-providing establishment open in the
town of Radda, so we went in and then discovered that 80% of the customers
at other tables were Americans -- and including one man at the table next to
us who was in the same industry and was loudly telling a story which
demonstrated his professional mastery, then followed by another story which
showed the sophistication of his knowledge of the wine business.

This came after a previous afternoon of walking around the city of Florence
where it seemed like half the conversations included the voices of American
students talking about the turns of their romantic relationships. Which
seemed amusing at the time. But when followed by our American restaurant
experience it was all just too much, so the next day we got out of there and
headed for Umbria.

If I had to choose one place to go and ride, it would be in the Dolomites.


Many of the famous spectacular "bicycling" passes in Dolomites are in Veneto
(e.g. Giau, Falzarego, Valparola, Tre Croci) or on the border between Veneto
and Sudtirol / Trentino - Alto Adige (e.g. Fedaia, Pordoi)

if you want to travel light is to carry light bags and
use the train for distance transport.


Makes sense. Actually I prefer to travel heavy. I like to bring along my
inline-skates, and a good set of bicycle tools and replacement parts, and
lots of maps. So I like having a car, because:
* it makes it easy to carry lots of stuff.
* makes it easy to carry our tandem bicycle (though since it's a Bike
Friday, it might be possible to partly disassemble it to become permissible
to bring on a train).
* makes it easy to "cheat" in various ways on setting up rides -- e.g. start
the Sella Ronda loop at the junction of the Passo Sella and Passo Pordoi
roads, instead of down in Canazei. Sometimes Sharon and I riding on our
tandem need all the help we can get.
* I often save money and time by sleeping in my rental car (for which I
bring a light sleeping bag)
* I just enjoy car-driving on the European roads. It's another thing that
makes Europe interestingly different from America.

Ken


  #5  
Old September 21st 05, 11:33 PM
Rick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default lost in Veneto, Italy


Ken Roberts wrote:
Rick wrote


* makes it easy to "cheat" in various ways on setting up rides -- e.g. start
the Sella Ronda loop at the junction of the Passo Sella and Passo Pordoi
roads, instead of down in Canazei. Sometimes Sharon and I riding on our
tandem need all the help we can get.


If I were going to do a one-day loop of the ring I would probably
overnight in Arabba; then I would have the choice of heading north out
of town over Campolongo for a counter-clockwise loop, or west over
Pordoi for a clockwise loop.

- rick

  #6  
Old September 22nd 05, 02:10 PM
Ken Roberts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default lost in Veneto, Italy

Rick wrote
If I were going to do a one-day loop of the ring
I would probably overnight in Arabba


Yes, starting from Arabba is another way to avoid the extra climbing. But
Sharon and I already had a hotel room to the west in the beautiful wide
Adige valley between Bozen and Trento, in a place that Sharon liked. Since I
have the remarkable fortune to be in long-term romantic relationship with
someone who is willing to join me in some of the great bicycling areas of
the world -- and who does not argue against me riding some extra days there
on my own -- I found myself able to endure the hardship of riding the great
Sella Ronda from an imperfect start-point.

Having a car with a rear rack gave us the flexibility to:

* not need to move to a different hotel room. We just drove up from the west
thru Canazei that same morning.

* easily enjoy on other days: riding with our tandem on some gentler roads
and bike trails in the Adige valley.

* be in a village and hotel in Italy where German is the main language.
Sharon was a German major in college.

* drive to a trailhead to do a hike Sharon wanted to try on another day.

* be in position to "cheat" again the next day in the Adige valley: by
somehow squeezing our tandem bicycle into the cog railway train from St
Anton (near Kaltern) up to the Mendelpass, which saved us ! 800 vertical
meters of steep climbing. Then long riding (mostly gentle, and much down)
with view across a valley filled with apple orchards and villages. Found it
pretty to ride alongside apple trees, even though I'm don't eat apples much.
Gelato stop in Cles, then more descending, into a gorge back into the Adige
valley (including a hard-to-find car-free road from the Rocchetta
intersection into Mezzecorona), then a beautiful ride north thru the
vineyards on the west side of the Adige valley, underneath dramatic cliffs.
(Let's have the Tuscany-riding partisans tell us about a route that good).
Only drawback was we still had to do a hefty climb from the Kalternsee up to
the bottom of the cog railway in St Anton (perhaps an opportunity for more
sophisticated cheating next time).

I think the flexibility and "cheating" by clever use of a car is what
allowed me to "make the sale" to be there riding in Italy at all -- and
greatly increased the probability that I'll get back there again.

Ken


  #7  
Old September 23rd 05, 03:18 AM
Chris Neary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default lost in Veneto, Italy

This May, my wife and I spent part of a week in Marostica during the Giro
riding the surrounding roads and then riding the stage route onto the Passo
Duran.

Agreed - it is a really neat area.

The following week we spent hiking around Castelrotto (closer to the
Austrian border) - also highly recommended.


================================================== ====
Chris Neary


"It feels so good to blow up!" - Tracey Adams
================================================== ====
  #8  
Old September 23rd 05, 05:27 PM
Ken Roberts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default lost in Veneto, Italy

Yes Sharon and I thought we'd like to explore that area north of the city of
Vicenza if we (hopefully) get to go back to Veneto again. Looks like
Marostica offers the option to ride either hillier toward the north in the
foothills, or gentler around the river Brenta. As a car-driver, I like the
looks of having a national road (SS 248 ?) connecting Marostica to the
autostrada exit by Vicenza (but if I thought that connecting road might be
slow, I might prefer to be based in a town closer to an autostrada exit).

One thing I've wondered about that area is, What are the little roads up on
the Asiago plateau like? Are they decently-paved or dirt-gravel? Could we
make a nice loop on our road-bike while staying up on the plateau, or would
any reasonable loop tour thru some of the Asiaga "seven towns" be required
to include a substantial climb from the valley?

Chris Neary wrote
my wife and I spent part of a week in Marostica during the Giro
riding the surrounding roads and then riding the stage route onto
the Passo Duran.


On my map, Passo Duran is nowhere near Marostica. How did you get between
the two places?

The following week we spent hiking around Castelrotto
(closer to the Austrian border)


Sharon and I did the climb from Castelrottol (or Kastelruth in German) up
into Seiser Alm / Alpe di Siusi -- which was about the hardest climb we've
ever done on our tandem, I think much of it pretty sustained at around 8%,
then continued east past views of ski lifts to great views of Langkofel /
Sasso Lungo. But then the descent to Santa Catarina had a rather long
dirt-gravel section, and then very steep even when when we got back on
pavement below Monte Pana. Good for photos, but I would not call it a very
good road-bicycling tour (maybe that's why lots of Italian riders are on
knobby tires?). I think if I rode it again, I'd just make it an out-and-back
tour from Kastelruth to the big viewpoint which is above and to the west of
Saltern / Saltaria.

We did see lots and lots of hikers up there, who got up to Seiser Alm by way
of bus or ski lift, so perhaps hiking is a better way to experience that
area.

Ken



  #9  
Old September 23rd 05, 10:56 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default lost in Veneto, Italy

One thing I've wondered about that area is, What are the little roads up on
the Asiago plateau like? Are they decently-paved or dirt-gravel?


Some roads are paved, others aren't. You might try
http://mappe.virgilio.it/. From my spot-checks, it seems to be more
up-to-date and accurate than any of the printed maps I've seen of the
Veneto, especially of roads in the "pianura".

  #10  
Old September 24th 05, 01:31 AM
Ken Roberts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default lost in Veneto, Italy

Yes that website does have a lot more detail than any of my printed maps.

wrote
You might try
http://mappe.virgilio.it

Mainly I've been using the bound volume of the Atlante Stradale d'Italia
1:200000 by the Touring Club Italiano. On this trip I also tried purchasing
some other brands of maps, but they didn't seem to show any more roads.

Ken



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lost my bike bag [email protected] General 22 June 3rd 05 07:50 PM
FW: We lost a battle, not the war, argues former BikeE boss Zach Recumbent Biking 0 March 19th 05 06:16 PM
Cyclist Marco Pantani's funeral draws thousands of mourners in Italy Garrison Hilliard General 2 February 21st 04 02:21 AM
Final start list for WC Elite Men's Road Race Sonarrat Racing 4 October 7th 03 01:48 AM
T-Mobile International Roster Sonarrat Racing 9 September 12th 03 05:10 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.