Blockade of King's Cross

On 09/01/2012 17:33, Dave - Cyclists VOR wrote:
On 09/01/2012 09:21, Simon Mason wrote:
On Jan 9, 9:07 am, wrote:
I'd much rather people drove a 5 mile round trip to the supermarket
once a week to get their provisions than drove a one mile round trip
daily to the farmers' market. But that is not what happens. The trip
to the farmers' market is in addition to the supermarket trip.

Surely a diesel van doing twenty deliveries by GPS is far more green
than twenty separate car trips?

Indeed. How often do you have food delivered though and what about
fresh food that doesn't last more than a day or two?

Doug.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Once a week on Tuesdays between 1100-1200 and if you spend over £100,
delivery is free.
I try and order long life stuff.
Long life milk, long life bread, frozen vegetables, fish and meat,
tins, jars and dried packets. The only really perishable foods are
salads, peppers and fruit. The last thing I had to chuck out was a red
pepper.

Could you post a photo of the pepper please?

What sort of pepper?

Writing pepper?

On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 16:18:16 +0000, JNugent
wrote:

On 09/01/2012 09:21, Simon Mason wrote:
On Jan 9, 9:07 am, wrote:
I'd much rather people drove a 5 mile round trip to the supermarket
once a week to get their provisions than drove a one mile round trip
daily to the farmers' market. But that is not what happens. The trip
to the farmers' market is in addition to the supermarket trip.

Surely a diesel van doing twenty deliveries by GPS is far more green
than twenty separate car trips?

Indeed. How often do you have food delivered though and what about
fresh food that doesn't last more than a day or two?

Doug.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Once a week on Tuesdays between 1100-1200 and if you spend over £100,
delivery is free.
I try and order long life stuff.
Long life milk,

retch

Have you no sense of quality and flavour?

I bought three two pint bags of fresh milk on Sunday; it is dated
until 17 January so will still be fresh when I buy some more next
weekend. And at just 33p per pint it is excellent value.

On 09/01/2012 18:02, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 16:18:16 +0000,
wrote:

On 09/01/2012 09:21, Simon Mason wrote:
On Jan 9, 9:07 am, wrote:
I'd much rather people drove a 5 mile round trip to the supermarket
once a week to get their provisions than drove a one mile round trip
daily to the farmers' market. But that is not what happens. The trip
to the farmers' market is in addition to the supermarket trip.

Surely a diesel van doing twenty deliveries by GPS is far more green
than twenty separate car trips?

Indeed. How often do you have food delivered though and what about
fresh food that doesn't last more than a day or two?

Doug.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Once a week on Tuesdays between 1100-1200 and if you spend over £100,
delivery is free.
I try and order long life stuff.
Long life milk,

retch

Have you no sense of quality and flavour?

I bought three two pint bags of fresh milk on Sunday; it is dated
until 17 January so will still be fresh when I buy some more next
weekend. And at just 33p per pint it is excellent value.

That's more like it.

Only an oaf would buy (and drink) "long life milk".

The stuff is disgusting. Once tasted... well... once is enough.

On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 16:51:14 +0000, JNugent
wrote:

On 09/01/2012 16:26, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 12:59:44 +0000,
wrote:

On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 01:07:42 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip


Indeed. How often do you have food delivered though and what about
fresh food that doesn't last more than a day or two?

Doug.



he doesn't eat fresh food : TV meals for one - in his garage with 10 pints of
beer.

Yum - chicken jalfrezi (I can't cope with vindaloo) ready meal washed
down with a couple of bottles of Budvar Budweiser is what I have when
Clare's out for the evening.

Is it what you would go looking for if both of you were on holiday in Eastern
Europe?

No. I usually go for the local food - except in China where you never
know what the local food might be! Panfried pork cheek with cow spunk
was one of the more attactive items on one menu. The image of how they
get the cow spunk into the pig's cheek will remain with me forever.
http://www.britishschoolofcycling.com/photos/menu.jpg

On 09/01/2012 18:38, Bertie Wooster wrote:

wrote:
On 09/01/2012 16:26, Bertie Wooster wrote:

Yum - chicken jalfrezi (I can't cope with vindaloo) ready meal washed
down with a couple of bottles of Budvar Budweiser is what I have when
Clare's out for the evening.

Is it what you would go looking for if both of you were on holiday in Eastern
Europe?

No. I usually go for the local food - except in China where you never
know what the local food might be! Panfried pork cheek with cow spunk
was one of the more attactive items on one menu. The image of how they
get the cow spunk into the pig's cheek will remain with me forever.
http://www.britishschoolofcycling.com/photos/menu.jpg

:-)

http://tinyurl.com/72trd2k

On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:28:43 +0000, JNugent
wrote:

On 09/01/2012 18:02, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 16:18:16 +0000,
wrote:

On 09/01/2012 09:21, Simon Mason wrote:
On Jan 9, 9:07 am, wrote:
I'd much rather people drove a 5 mile round trip to the supermarket
once a week to get their provisions than drove a one mile round trip
daily to the farmers' market. But that is not what happens. The trip
to the farmers' market is in addition to the supermarket trip.

Surely a diesel van doing twenty deliveries by GPS is far more green
than twenty separate car trips?

Indeed. How often do you have food delivered though and what about
fresh food that doesn't last more than a day or two?

Doug.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Once a week on Tuesdays between 1100-1200 and if you spend over £100,
delivery is free.
I try and order long life stuff.
Long life milk,

retch

Have you no sense of quality and flavour?

I bought three two pint bags of fresh milk on Sunday; it is dated
until 17 January so will still be fresh when I buy some more next
weekend. And at just 33p per pint it is excellent value.

That's more like it.

Only an oaf would buy (and drink) "long life milk".

The stuff is disgusting. Once tasted... well... once is enough.

I often keep a pint of long life in the cupboard as I consider having
no milk for my coffee worse than having long life milk for my coffee;
and I can't start the day without my cafetiere of coffee. I used to
use an expresso machine and real beans, but a cafetiere with Carte
Noir is, in my opinion, far superiour.

On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:42:12 +0000, JNugent
wrote:

On 09/01/2012 18:38, Bertie Wooster wrote:

wrote:
On 09/01/2012 16:26, Bertie Wooster wrote:

Yum - chicken jalfrezi (I can't cope with vindaloo) ready meal washed
down with a couple of bottles of Budvar Budweiser is what I have when
Clare's out for the evening.

Is it what you would go looking for if both of you were on holiday in Eastern
Europe?

No. I usually go for the local food - except in China where you never
know what the local food might be! Panfried pork cheek with cow spunk
was one of the more attactive items on one menu. The image of how they
get the cow spunk into the pig's cheek will remain with me forever.
http://www.britishschoolofcycling.com/photos/menu.jpg

:-)

http://tinyurl.com/72trd2k

My brother's wife opened a restaurant in Shanghai a few years ago. My
brother translated the menu and made a few (hilarious) deliberate
mis-translations in the hope of attracting ex-pats to have a few
laughs. Unfortunately the business failed and they didn't renew the
lease when it expired.

On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 17:59:09 +0000, Phil W Lee
wrote:

Bertie Wooster considered Mon, 09 Jan 2012
07:08:47 +0000 the perfect time to write:

On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 19:52:58 -0800 (PST), Simon Mason
wrote:

On Jan 7, 7:12*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 18:41:58 +0000

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Who would be a bigger idiot:
- person who spends 1 hour walking to the supermarket and 1 hour
walking back; or,
- person who spends 2 hours on a treadmill in a gym, and pays for the
privilege?

The former given that most people come back with rather full shopping bags
when they've been to the supermarket.

B2003

If you still go to a supermarket then you are a fool.
Get it delivered instead.

Supermarkets have a very efficient distribution network. Shopping once
a week at a supermarket, even by car, is a very green way to shop.

?????
I can't think of anyone other than supermarkets who will truck produce
across the country and back again, then sell it as "local produce".
The only way in which a supermarket's distribution network can be
described as efficient is in it's size.
Cnetralising carrot packing in one place (on the opposite side of the
country from where most carrots are grown) is efficient to the
supermarket, because the labour is cheaper there.
But green? That's a joke.

OK... Consider a 1Kg bag of carrots, grown and sold in Cambridgeshire.

From the farm, 10 tonnes are taken 15 miles by open lorry to the local
wholesaler, they are then taken 45 miles in a 20 tonne lorry to Tescos
distribution centre in Harlow. From there they are put on another 20
tonne lorry and shipped another 45 miles to the Tescos superstore in
Bar Hill.

The carrots have travelled 105 miles: 15 miles as 1Kg of a 10 tonne
load, and 90 miles as 1Kg of a 20 tonne load.

1Kg of 10 tonnes is 0.01%; 1kg of 20 tonnes is 0.005%.

0.01% of 15 miles is 8 feet; 0.005% of 90 miles is 24 feet.

So it could be said that the 1Kg bag of carrots have travelled 32 feet
by lorry.

Now consider a farmers' market in Cambridge. A farmer takes 1 tonne of
fruit and vegetables 15 miles direct from his farm to the farmers'
market in his van. His load includes a 1Kg bag of carrots; 0.1% of his
load. 15 miles x 0.1% = 80 feet by van.

Now, I don't know what has a lower carbon footprint - 32 feet by lorry
or 80 feet by van, but when you consider the small quantities people
buy at farmers' markets and the trolley loads at supermarkets, both
loaded into cars and driven away, shopping by car at a supermarket
turns out to have a far lower carbon footprint than a farmers' market.
And the example I gave is extreme. Not much produce sold in
superstores and the farmers' market is produced as locally as the
carrots in my example.

Farmers' markets, on the other hand, have a hopelessly inefficient
distribution network.

I think you are over generalising.
I know of some which only have local farmers selling local goods,
which have never been out of the county.

Like the carrots in my example?

Likewise farm shops - some just sell the produce of that farm, others
have goods from all over the place.

Indeed. And how do people get to these farm shops?

Small quantities of produce are driven,
sometimes hundreds of miles, to the market, then sold in small
quantities to people who then drive them home.

I'd much rather people drove a 5 mile round trip to the supermarket
once a week to get their provisions than drove a one mile round trip
daily to the farmers' market. But that is not what happens. The trip
to the farmers' market is in addition to the supermarket trip.

But better still - walk or cycle to the supermarket. I do, and my
trailer can easily hold a weeks provisions for two people.

I use different shops for different types of goods.

An excellent way to shop if you want the best quality. Just don't fool
yourself that it is a green way to shop.

Where possible, fresh produce is bought direct from the grower, but
then I live in a part of the country where such things are grown, so
there are several local sources.

On 09/01/2012 18:55, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:28:43 +0000,
wrote:

On 09/01/2012 18:02, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 16:18:16 +0000,
wrote:

On 09/01/2012 09:21, Simon Mason wrote:
On Jan 9, 9:07 am, wrote:
I'd much rather people drove a 5 mile round trip to the supermarket
once a week to get their provisions than drove a one mile round trip
daily to the farmers' market. But that is not what happens. The trip
to the farmers' market is in addition to the supermarket trip.

Surely a diesel van doing twenty deliveries by GPS is far more green
than twenty separate car trips?

Indeed. How often do you have food delivered though and what about
fresh food that doesn't last more than a day or two?

Doug.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Once a week on Tuesdays between 1100-1200 and if you spend over £100,
delivery is free.
I try and order long life stuff.
Long life milk,

retch

Have you no sense of quality and flavour?

I bought three two pint bags of fresh milk on Sunday; it is dated
until 17 January so will still be fresh when I buy some more next
weekend. And at just 33p per pint it is excellent value.

That's more like it.

Only an oaf would buy (and drink) "long life milk".

The stuff is disgusting. Once tasted... well... once is enough.

I often keep a pint of long life in the cupboard as I consider having
no milk for my coffee worse than having long life milk for my coffee;
and I can't start the day without my cafetiere of coffee. I used to
use an expresso machine and real beans, but a cafetiere with Carte
Noir is, in my opinion, far superiour.

I certainly share your taste for Carte Noir. I'd rather take it black than
with LLM.

On Jan 9, 4:18*pm, JNugent wrote:
On 09/01/2012 09:21, Simon Mason wrote:









On Jan 9, 9:07 am, *wrote:
I'd much rather people drove a 5 mile round trip to the supermarket
once a week to get their provisions than drove a one mile round trip
daily to the farmers' market. But that is not what happens. The trip
to the farmers' market is in addition to the supermarket trip.

Surely a diesel van doing twenty deliveries by GPS is far more green
than twenty separate car trips?

Indeed. How often do you have food delivered though and what about
fresh food that doesn't last more than a day or two?

Doug.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Once a week on Tuesdays between 1100-1200 and if you spend over £100,
delivery is free.
I try and order long life stuff.
Long life milk,

retch

Have you no sense of quality and flavour?

My grandfather, living on his own, had sterilised milk. I had it when
visiting, I rather liked it in small doses:-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lancashire/1346132291/

Mind you, I learnt to like cold homemade rice pudding with evaporated
milk poured over it, emulating my dad.

---------------------------------

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17125...mages/fig4.jpg

"William leant back in a superior, benevolent manner and watched the
smile freeze upon her face and her look of ecstasy change to one of
fury. With a horrible suspicion at his heart he seized the spoon she
had dropped and took a mouthful himself.
He had brought the rice-mould by mistake!"