How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

Bill Sornson wrote:
Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?

Wok with motor oil. Turn on high.



destroys their strength.

Andre Jute wrote:
On May 12, 8:18�pm, Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?

You can have the spokes polished and black-chromed . However.
chromeplating covers cracks and may even cause them, which is why
stressed parts should not be chrome-plated.

The same applies to ion-plating, which is good for a matte result.

Or you can dip the spokes in hot oil and then bake it on in an oven. I
don't know if a microwave will do the the job.

andre, as an engineering expert, you should know that heating and work
hardening don't mix. spokes derive their strength from the latter. oh,
and you got the oil/heating thing the wrong way around too.

On Wed, 13 May 2009 06:13:26 -0400, Nate Nagel wrote:

Tosspot wrote:
Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?

Can't you just heat them up and dunk them in motor oil. I seem to
recall that from boyhood buggerings about.

I'd think that would possibly change the heat treating properties of the
steel, if any. (what you're describing is basically oil quenching...)

I'd be tempted to try a home blueing kit intended for firearms - you
won't get a perfectly black finish but close to it, and it won't look
like paint either

Tried it. You can get some permanent darkening, to a light smoke color, but the
blackening rubs off with little more difficulty than soot.

On 5/13/2009 6:01 AM jim beam wrote:

wrote:
he
Stainless Steel Blackener 370 is an acidic liquid concentrate used
full strength or diluted with up to 3 parts water to blacken stainless
steel at room temperature. Recommended for color coding parts and
blackening engravings on stainless steels. Produces a pleasing dark
gray/black finish. No sealer required.


link he

http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/black.htm#stainless

========

This is a posibility.

There is a mention that there is a process of applying aluminum to
stainless steel and then anodizing it the color you want:

December 10, 2008


You can also treat stainless steel with IVD - ion vapour deposition -
to give an aluminium coating. You can then anodise it in the same way
as aluminium.

Andrew Pridmore
- Gillingham, Kent, UK

link he

http://www.finishing.com/245/20.shtml



Good luck, cause some of this stuff you would have to buy it, and the
cost is high compared to the need for black spokes.

hope this helps

greg

"Mike Rocket J Squirrel" wrote in
message ...
On 5/12/2009 1:42 PM wrote:

black anodized steel is a common thing, all you have to do is find
out how it is done and do it on a small scale for spokes.
hope this helps
greg
I'm pretty sure that anodizing isn't used on steel.

"Anodic films are most commonly applied to protect aluminium alloys,
although processes also exist for titanium, zinc, magnesium, and
niobium. This process is not a useful treatment for iron or carbon
steel because these metals exfoliate when oxidized; i.e. the iron
oxide (also known as rust) flakes off, constantly exposing the
underlying metal to corrosion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodize

I wonder how stainless parts are made black, commercially... some
Googling turned up:

"...there is a commercial proprietary product available for
blackening stainless steel based on copper-selenium chemistry. It is
used at room temperature. More information can be obtained by doing
an internet search under the term �blackening process.�

http://www.pfonline.com/articles/cli...cl_plate3.html


--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon



you guys, with respect, are smoking crack. the per-item cost to do all
this stuff is just ridiculously high compared to purchase of the
requisite parts form an expert manufacturer that will not weaken or
fatigue or corrode their own product. just buy the freakin' things and
quit this ridiculous festival of ignorance.

The OP just asked how if it could be done. Maybe he's a home hobbyist who
likes to tinker. I ain't judging him, man.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon

On 5/12/2009 10:26 PM Carl Sundquist wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:
On May 12, 8:18 pm, Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?

You can have the spokes polished and black-chromed . However.
chromeplating covers cracks and may even cause them, which is why
stressed parts should not be chrome-plated.

The same applies to ion-plating, which is good for a matte result.

Or you can dip the spokes in hot oil and then bake it on in an oven. I
don't know if a microwave will do the the job.

Is there any sort of oxide treatment that might be suitable?

Black oxide is the usual finish for blackening steel, but I don't know
whether it works on stainless. For normal steel, black oxide does not
prevent moisture from getting on the steel, so either wax or oil is
applied as a rust preventative.

As Peter Chisholm say, probably miles easier to buy black spokes.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon

jim beam wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken
spokes and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?

Wok with motor oil. Turn on high.



destroys their strength.




sigh.

On Wed, 13 May 2009 07:21:25 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

wrote:

Here's an early explanation of the enamel-nickel combination:

"If your wheels are not yet built up, do not attempt the removal of
hardened cups from hubs. The rims should be store enamelled before
wheels are built, and the spokes carefully brush enamelled after
completion; this insures good wearing cups. Many of our large firms
run the risk of softening cases by enamelling complete for sake of
appearance. If you must have perfection in appearance and finish, have
your spokes nickel-plated right through if direct; and if tangent,
plate 3 in. from headed end, and brush enamel up to where spokes cross
each other."

--"English Mechanic," 1894

"Store enamelled" possibly "stove enamelled"

Dear Andrew,

You're right--Google Books text just runs the blurry image through an
optical character reader. Unfortunately, "store" made sense as
"store-bought" as opposed to the advice to brush some stuff on
yourself.

Google reads it as "store" in that line, but it looks more like
"stove" to me and it's clearly "stove" later in the same paragraph,
past the quote:

"If wheels are already built, and yon think it advisable to stove
enamel complete, send with cups in, and on return from stoving note if
temper has been drawn."

The OCR often goofs things up. The replies to questions in "English
Mechanic" used the same sort of pseudonyms popular nowadways in RBT,
with replies signed "Fifty-Eight Inch" (a rather large size
highwheeler, the equivalent of someone posting today as "55x11").

The author of the reply in question was "Derwent", but the OCR mangled
it to "DeeweÜt"--he was one of the more prolific bicycle posters and
something of a columnist for the "English Mechanic" magazines.

Similarly, "S. Bottone" turns into "S. Bottonk" and then "S. Bottose"
on that page, "An Amatkdr" was probably "An Amateur", and "Molkch"
became "Moloch", which detracted from his Biblical pretensions.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?


http://www.assda.asn.au/index.php?op...74&Itemi d=98

Surface Blackening

Stainless steel surfaces can be readily blackened, the most common
process is by immersion in a molten salt bath of sodium dichromate. This
practice is widely used by the automotive industry to blacken stainless
steel parts, such as windscreen wipers, and it is used by manufacturers
of stainless steel solar collection panels and trivets for domestic gas
stoves. The process applies a very thin smooth black oxide film to the
surface of all stainless steel types. The film is normally dull black in
colour, but it can be brightened by the application of oils or waxes.
The film shows no tendency to age or lose colour in service; it is
ductile, will not chip or peel, and it is resistant to heat-up to the
normal scaling temperature of the stainless steel. A blackened stainless
steel can be deformed moderately without harm and the film exhibits good
resistance to abrasion.

A black surface can also be produced by black chromium plating.

Colouring

A proprietary process used for colouring stainless steels entails
immersing it in a hot chromic/sulphuric acid solution, followed by a
cathodic hardening treatment in another acidic solution. The reaction of
the base material with the hot acid produces a transparent film which in
itself is basically colourless, but which shows colours through light
interference. Colours produced in normal time sequence are bronze, blue,
gold, red, purple and green, and within this range a wide variety of
shades can be obtained. Black finish is also available. Appearance is
also dependent on the nature of the starting surface; matt and satin
surfaces produce matt colours, polished surfaces exhibit a high degree
of metallic lustre.

Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote:
On 5/12/2009 10:26 PM Carl Sundquist wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:
On May 12, 8:18 pm, Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?

You can have the spokes polished and black-chromed . However.
chromeplating covers cracks and may even cause them, which is why
stressed parts should not be chrome-plated.

The same applies to ion-plating, which is good for a matte result.

Or you can dip the spokes in hot oil and then bake it on in an oven. I
don't know if a microwave will do the the job.

Is there any sort of oxide treatment that might be suitable?

Black oxide is the usual finish for blackening steel, but I don't know
whether it works on stainless. For normal steel, black oxide does not
prevent moisture from getting on the steel, so either wax or oil is
applied as a rust preventative.

As Peter Chisholm say, probably miles easier to buy black spokes.


Why would rust be any more of a factor on an oxided stainless spoke than
an uncoated stainless one?

On May 13, 5:22*am, "P. Chisholm" wrote:
On May 12, 1:18*pm, Johan Bornman wrote:

Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?

Are you in the US? A bike shop?
If so I can give you the name of my spoke supplier, DT spokes, all
lengths, black or silver, various gauges.

It appears Wheelsmith spokes, or at least their db14s - 2.0/1.7/2.0 ,
come in both silver and black too:

http://www.wheelsmith.com/spokes_db14.html

Good Luck!