Who is to blame

On 13/07/2017 15:43, Nick wrote:
On 13/07/2017 13:51, MrCheerful wrote:


It was clear to me that a competent driver would not have driven under
the bridge since there is always the possibility that someone might
jump off it.

I do love usenet logic. True, False and Maybe. All values of "Maybe" are
equivalent.

Thus we should consider the maybe event of Gibraltar winning the 2018
world cup as significantly as that of Brazil winning.

You don't understand satire, do you?

On 13/07/2017 16:36, MrCheerful wrote:
On 13/07/2017 15:43, Nick wrote:
On 13/07/2017 13:51, MrCheerful wrote:


It was clear to me that a competent driver would not have driven
under the bridge since there is always the possibility that someone
might jump off it.

I do love usenet logic. True, False and Maybe. All values of "Maybe"
are equivalent.

Thus we should consider the maybe event of Gibraltar winning the 2018
world cup as significantly as that of Brazil winning.

You don't understand satire, do you?

Apologies.

On usenet I do often find it hard to distinguish between satire and a
lack of understanding.

Nick wrote:
On 13/07/2017 16:36, MrCheerful wrote:
On 13/07/2017 15:43, Nick wrote:
On 13/07/2017 13:51, MrCheerful wrote:


It was clear to me that a competent driver would not have driven
under the bridge since there is always the possibility that someone
might jump off it.

I do love usenet logic. True, False and Maybe. All values of "Maybe"
are equivalent.

Thus we should consider the maybe event of Gibraltar winning the
2018 world cup as significantly as that of Brazil winning.

You don't understand satire, do you?

Apologies.

On usenet I do often find it hard to distinguish between satire and a
lack of understanding.

Cyclists tend to have this problem. It's known as having a one track mind.

On 13/07/17 15:43, Nick wrote:
On 13/07/2017 14:57, TMS320 wrote:

That is true. But a mistake by one road user that leads to a collision
is not evidence of lack of duty of care in the other.

I never suggested that was the case. Indeed, when I first joined this
thread I looked at it purely from the perspective of the lorry driver.

"The cyclist was in front of the Lorry. The Lorry driver could see
a lot of cyclists were on his inside at the lights. He tried to
out accelerate the cyclists as the road narrowed. I would ban him
as dangerous."

The lorry would have been full out from the start and the driver
couldn't have found anything extra. Look at how far ahead the rider in
black was. The "acceleration" you perceive is just an effect as the
cyclist carrying the camera backs off.

Also look at the position of the rider in black relative to the kerb.
The rider in red was still well out at the same point and could have
gained more clearance. His trajectory over paint marks and a slight lean
suggests he even made a course adjustment to the right. He was slow to
get started and too slow to get properly ahead. A combination of mistake
and poor judgement.

On 13/07/2017 19:20, TMS320 wrote:
On 13/07/17 15:43, Nick wrote:
On 13/07/2017 14:57, TMS320 wrote:

That is true. But a mistake by one road user that leads to a
collision is not evidence of lack of duty of care in the other.

I never suggested that was the case. Indeed, when I first joined this
thread I looked at it purely from the perspective of the lorry driver.

"The cyclist was in front of the Lorry. The Lorry driver could see
a lot of cyclists were on his inside at the lights. He tried to
out accelerate the cyclists as the road narrowed. I would ban him
as dangerous."

The lorry would have been full out from the start and the driver
couldn't have found anything extra. Look at how far ahead the rider in
black was. The "acceleration" you perceive is just an effect as the
cyclist carrying the camera backs off.


My perception was that he started in first gear, changed gear mid way
across the junction and started to accelerate in second gear just prior
to arriving at the other side of the junction where the road was narrowing.


Also look at the position of the rider in black relative to the kerb.
The rider in red was still well out at the same point and could have
gained more clearance. His trajectory over paint marks and a slight lean
suggests he even made a course adjustment to the right. He was slow to
get started and too slow to get properly ahead. A combination of mistake
and poor judgement.

Gutter cyclists are constrained to follow the curb. Motorists often
follow the line markings in the road. This can be a problem at a pinch
point. I know this as a cyclist and position my self carefully to avoid
conflict. I would expect a more highly trained lorry driver to know it
too and to take at least as much care to avoid conflict..

On 14/07/17 08:52, Nick wrote:
On 13/07/2017 19:20, TMS320 wrote:
On 13/07/17 15:43, Nick wrote:
On 13/07/2017 14:57, TMS320 wrote:

That is true. But a mistake by one road user that leads to a
collision is not evidence of lack of duty of care in the other.

I never suggested that was the case. Indeed, when I first joined this
thread I looked at it purely from the perspective of the lorry driver.

"The cyclist was in front of the Lorry. The Lorry driver could see
a lot of cyclists were on his inside at the lights. He tried to
out accelerate the cyclists as the road narrowed. I would ban him
as dangerous."

The lorry would have been full out from the start and the driver
couldn't have found anything extra. Look at how far ahead the rider in
black was. The "acceleration" you perceive is just an effect as the
cyclist carrying the camera backs off.

My perception was that he started in first gear, changed gear mid way
across the junction and started to accelerate in second gear just prior
to arriving at the other side of the junction where the road was narrowing.

You have a rather strange idea about the acceleration capabilities of
lorries. It's quite clear it could not not keep up with the riders the
driver could see.

Also look at the position of the rider in black relative to the kerb.
The rider in red was still well out at the same point and could have
gained more clearance. His trajectory over paint marks and a slight
lean suggests he even made a course adjustment to the right. He was
slow to get started and too slow to get properly ahead. A combination
of mistake and poor judgement.

Gutter cyclists are constrained to follow the curb. Motorists often
follow the line markings in the road. This can be a problem at a pinch
point. I know this as a cyclist and position my self carefully to avoid
conflict.

The rider in red was neither here nor there. This was a merging of
lanes, not about claiming a pinch point. The rider in black was not in
the gutter.

I would expect a more highly trained lorry driver to know it
too and to take at least as much care to avoid conflict..

I am not a lorry driver. I write as bicycle user.