hydraulic oil

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 1:37:43 PM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:
What are you using this oil for?
Usually hydraulic oil is too thin for any
real purposes outside of an enclosed gear
train such as in hydraulic transmissions.
Bicycles usually call for heavy grease though
no one uses it.

For ball bearing areas when then bike is inact
and grease cannot be applied.

I'm not clear what you mean with what must be a misspelling but hydraulic fluid can ONLY lubricate in a bath. Applying it to a surface will not lubricate anything. Or at least not until the first swipe of two surfaces displaces it.

I'm not clear what you mean with what must be
a misspelling but hydraulic fluid can ONLY
lubricate in a bath. Applying it to a surface
will not lubricate anything. Or at least not
until the first swipe of two surfaces
displaces it.

OK, no it is hydraulic oil for sure, it says so
on the can.

What oil should one use? The WD-40 and CRC 5-56
seem to do more harm than good. Likewise
CRC Bike Oil which seems to be similar to
those. Grease tho optimal isn't getting inside
without picking things apart which is a huge
effort and last resort.

For example, many single speed hubs have
a small lid where to drip in oil. Only, what
oil is that?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 00:57:57 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

I'm not clear what you mean with what must be
a misspelling but hydraulic fluid can ONLY
lubricate in a bath. Applying it to a surface
will not lubricate anything. Or at least not
until the first swipe of two surfaces
displaces it.

OK, no it is hydraulic oil for sure, it says so
on the can.

What oil should one use? The WD-40 and CRC 5-56
seem to do more harm than good. Likewise
CRC Bike Oil which seems to be similar to
those. Grease tho optimal isn't getting inside
without picking things apart which is a huge
effort and last resort.

For example, many single speed hubs have
a small lid where to drip in oil. Only, what
oil is that?

Without getting all scientific the correct lubricant, assuming that
lubrication is what you are thinking of, depend on two things. (1) The
load on the bearing and (2) the spacing in the baring for the
lubricant. You can, for instance, build a perfectly good bearing that
is "lubricated" with compressed air and shipyard "ways" require a
totally different lubrication because of the tremendous weight of the
ship sliding down the ways. It gets even more complicated when you get
into special lubricants such as oil for hypoid gear systems so the
easy answer is "use what the manufacturer recommends".

Shimano, for example, sells a special WB oil that they recommend for
their 3 speed rear hubs and someone writing on the Sheldon Jones site
recommended "75W gear oil" for Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hubs.

The WD-40 that you mention above was originally compounded "to be used
by Convair to protect the outer skin which comprised the paper-thin
balloon tanks of the Atlas missile from rust and corrosion." No
mention of lubrication at all.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 6/3/2017 9:25 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 00:57:57 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

I'm not clear what you mean with what must be
a misspelling but hydraulic fluid can ONLY
lubricate in a bath. Applying it to a surface
will not lubricate anything. Or at least not
until the first swipe of two surfaces
displaces it.

OK, no it is hydraulic oil for sure, it says so
on the can.

What oil should one use? The WD-40 and CRC 5-56
seem to do more harm than good. Likewise
CRC Bike Oil which seems to be similar to
those. Grease tho optimal isn't getting inside
without picking things apart which is a huge
effort and last resort.

For example, many single speed hubs have
a small lid where to drip in oil. Only, what
oil is that?

Without getting all scientific the correct lubricant, assuming that
lubrication is what you are thinking of, depend on two things. (1) The
load on the bearing and (2) the spacing in the baring for the
lubricant. You can, for instance, build a perfectly good bearing that
is "lubricated" with compressed air and shipyard "ways" require a
totally different lubrication because of the tremendous weight of the
ship sliding down the ways. It gets even more complicated when you get
into special lubricants such as oil for hypoid gear systems so the
easy answer is "use what the manufacturer recommends".

Shimano, for example, sells a special WB oil that they recommend for
their 3 speed rear hubs and someone writing on the Sheldon Jones site
recommended "75W gear oil" for Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hubs.

Ah! A new topic for a bicycle/religious war: What oil to use in
Sturmey-Archer 3 speeds!

I hadn't heard about using 75W oil. I've been using automatic
transmission fluid, just a few drops every once in a while. The hub
seems fine...

But maybe I should have phrased that differently. Something like "I use
automatic transmission fluid, and anyone who doesn't is a know-nothing
who shouldn't be allowed to ride a Sturmey-Archer!"

P.S. The ATF is red. I'm sure that helps.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski wrote:

Ah! A new topic for a bicycle/religious war:
What oil to use in Sturmey-Archer 3 speeds!

Is there some property to oils so they can be
compared for this purpose?

On the hydraulic oil can, it says ISO 32 which
is a measure of viscosity. Here is a table:

http://www.viscopedia.com/viscosity-...lassification/

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 22:08:21 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/3/2017 9:25 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 00:57:57 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

I'm not clear what you mean with what must be
a misspelling but hydraulic fluid can ONLY
lubricate in a bath. Applying it to a surface
will not lubricate anything. Or at least not
until the first swipe of two surfaces
displaces it.

OK, no it is hydraulic oil for sure, it says so
on the can.

What oil should one use? The WD-40 and CRC 5-56
seem to do more harm than good. Likewise
CRC Bike Oil which seems to be similar to
those. Grease tho optimal isn't getting inside
without picking things apart which is a huge
effort and last resort.

For example, many single speed hubs have
a small lid where to drip in oil. Only, what
oil is that?

Without getting all scientific the correct lubricant, assuming that
lubrication is what you are thinking of, depend on two things. (1) The
load on the bearing and (2) the spacing in the baring for the
lubricant. You can, for instance, build a perfectly good bearing that
is "lubricated" with compressed air and shipyard "ways" require a
totally different lubrication because of the tremendous weight of the
ship sliding down the ways. It gets even more complicated when you get
into special lubricants such as oil for hypoid gear systems so the
easy answer is "use what the manufacturer recommends".

Shimano, for example, sells a special WB oil that they recommend for
their 3 speed rear hubs and someone writing on the Sheldon Jones site
recommended "75W gear oil" for Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hubs.

Ah! A new topic for a bicycle/religious war: What oil to use in
Sturmey-Archer 3 speeds!

I hadn't heard about using 75W oil. I've been using automatic
transmission fluid, just a few drops every once in a while. The hub
seems fine...

It is even more complex as I read that "Old Sturmey-Archer
coaster-brake 3-speeds have an oil fitting, but other hubs with a
coaster brake require a special high-temperature grease for the brake
shoes."

and even worse: "Some hubs use a different grease for the rest of the
mechanism, so the pawls don't stick.

And finally, I read in the Sturmey-Archer service manual that no
routine lubrication is required and that the hub should be greased
when overhauled.

This is probably even more complex then the helmet question that seems
essentially a simple "yes" or "no" decision.

But maybe I should have phrased that differently. Something like "I use
automatic transmission fluid, and anyone who doesn't is a know-nothing
who shouldn't be allowed to ride a Sturmey-Archer!"

P.S. The ATF is red. I'm sure that helps.

Well, we all know that red is faster so using a red lubricant will
likely make the bike much faster.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 05:41:49 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:

Ah! A new topic for a bicycle/religious war:
What oil to use in Sturmey-Archer 3 speeds!

Is there some property to oils so they can be
compared for this purpose?

On the hydraulic oil can, it says ISO 32 which
is a measure of viscosity. Here is a table:

http://www.viscopedia.com/viscosity-...lassification/

It really isn't that simple which is why one should "read the manual"
if one is available.

I once solved a problem that had caused almost an entire fleet of dump
trucks to break down.

The problem was that the differentials were all failing. When I
visited the shop I found that they were using a straight gear oil
rather then a gear oil intended for hypoid gears.

Although that is a rather extreme example it does show that the
correct lubricant may be important.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, June 3, 2017 at 3:58:01 PM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:

For example, many single speed hubs have
a small lid where to drip in oil. Only, what
oil is that?

THAT is where you drip in some nice cheap 30 weight motor oil. Unless you have the manual when can advise you what they prefer.

On 6/4/2017 2:22 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 22:08:21 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/3/2017 9:25 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 00:57:57 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

I'm not clear what you mean with what must be
a misspelling but hydraulic fluid can ONLY
lubricate in a bath. Applying it to a surface
will not lubricate anything. Or at least not
until the first swipe of two surfaces
displaces it.

OK, no it is hydraulic oil for sure, it says so
on the can.

What oil should one use? The WD-40 and CRC 5-56
seem to do more harm than good. Likewise
CRC Bike Oil which seems to be similar to
those. Grease tho optimal isn't getting inside
without picking things apart which is a huge
effort and last resort.

For example, many single speed hubs have
a small lid where to drip in oil. Only, what
oil is that?

Without getting all scientific the correct lubricant, assuming that
lubrication is what you are thinking of, depend on two things. (1) The
load on the bearing and (2) the spacing in the baring for the
lubricant. You can, for instance, build a perfectly good bearing that
is "lubricated" with compressed air and shipyard "ways" require a
totally different lubrication because of the tremendous weight of the
ship sliding down the ways. It gets even more complicated when you get
into special lubricants such as oil for hypoid gear systems so the
easy answer is "use what the manufacturer recommends".

Shimano, for example, sells a special WB oil that they recommend for
their 3 speed rear hubs and someone writing on the Sheldon Jones site
recommended "75W gear oil" for Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hubs.

Ah! A new topic for a bicycle/religious war: What oil to use in
Sturmey-Archer 3 speeds!

I hadn't heard about using 75W oil. I've been using automatic
transmission fluid, just a few drops every once in a while. The hub
seems fine...

It is even more complex as I read that "Old Sturmey-Archer
coaster-brake 3-speeds have an oil fitting, but other hubs with a
coaster brake require a special high-temperature grease for the brake
shoes."

and even worse: "Some hubs use a different grease for the rest of the
mechanism, so the pawls don't stick.

And finally, I read in the Sturmey-Archer service manual that no
routine lubrication is required and that the hub should be greased
when overhauled.

This is probably even more complex then the helmet question that seems
essentially a simple "yes" or "no" decision.

But maybe I should have phrased that differently. Something like "I use
automatic transmission fluid, and anyone who doesn't is a know-nothing
who shouldn't be allowed to ride a Sturmey-Archer!"

P.S. The ATF is red. I'm sure that helps.

Well, we all know that red is faster so using a red lubricant will
likely make the bike much faster.
--
Cheers,

John B.


A recent post intimated that The Ancients did not understand
time. Here's a modern example of that.

Classic era [1] gearboxes use a medium weight machine oil.
90W gear lube through sewing machine oil are acceptable.
Rebuilders often grease the end bearings before closing the
gearbox which gives a slower oil drool[2] than otherwise.

Starting near the end of the last century, Sachs and Shimano
changed to a molybdenum-rich light viscosity grease[3].
Sturmey Archer's current incarnation quickly followed[4].

So, yes and no. Varies by century.

IMHO, a system which requires regular lubrication from the
user[5] will fail.


[1] 1890s through 1990s roughly

[2] Simple end seals only work when wet with oil which means
constant bleed.

[3] Hubris lives! They call it 'permanent lubrication', viz:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/failnx16.jpg

[4] Rohloff went the other way = true seals in a clean oil
bath with a lighter weight lubricant.

[5] Quoth Sturmey in my own 1953 bicycle manual, "A drop per
fortnight in daily use". In reality consumers choose 'no
attention until it fails'.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/4/2017 2:30 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 05:41:49 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:

Ah! A new topic for a bicycle/religious war:
What oil to use in Sturmey-Archer 3 speeds!

Is there some property to oils so they can be
compared for this purpose?

On the hydraulic oil can, it says ISO 32 which
is a measure of viscosity. Here is a table:

http://www.viscopedia.com/viscosity-...lassification/

It really isn't that simple which is why one should "read the manual"
if one is available.

I once solved a problem that had caused almost an entire fleet of dump
trucks to break down.

The problem was that the differentials were all failing. When I
visited the shop I found that they were using a straight gear oil
rather then a gear oil intended for hypoid gears.

Although that is a rather extreme example it does show that the
correct lubricant may be important.

--
Cheers,

John B.


Overanalysis led us to a non-foaming oil for Sturmey too.
Maybe overkill, but we are just not going to buy a full drum
each of TWO lubricants here.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971