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Eyc headlight problem



 
 
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  #71  
Old April 2nd 21, 08:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Eyc headlight problem

On 4/2/2021 12:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 7:41:20 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/2/2021 12:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:

I rode across the US from east to west and north to south with a battery light. I did have a roller dynamo while commuting in San Jose in the 70s.


I did east to west with a roller dyno and a halogen headlight. I'm
betting your battery light was nowhere near as effective as my various
B&M lamps, yet we both survived. Yet you seem to now be claiming my
lights are ineffective.
...

My modern LED headlights light up as soon as the bike moves. And
most of them have "standlights" that would give enough illumination for
walking even if I somehow had to carry the bike.
But you don't have to like them. In fact, you don't have to keep the set
you have. I can trade you for an Oculus that will blind your enemies.
Think how safe you'll feel!

Hell, I built the wheel and hand drilled and tapped the cast aluminum crown on my CX bike just to mount the mood light. No way I'm getting rid of it. Is it as bright as my L&M urban 800 lumen light that cost one fifth and weighs one quarter of my dyno set up? No. Does my dyno light run forever, yes. That's worth something.

Hmm. It's terribly dim. It's just a "mood light." But you love it.

OK. Enjoy it.


I don't love it. I would love a dyno light with a solid 800 lumen output...


Seriously now: How did you decide that you need 800 lumens?

I suspect it's because that's what the L&M has to put out to adequately
light the road, plus cook part of it with a hot spot and waste half of
it into the trees. Simplistic beams have inflated the demand for lumens.
Bicycle optics are where automotive optics were in the 1910s.

I'd love to see a test where a sample of road riders tested a lamp whose
optics were properly designed for road use, but whose lumen output
varied. Start low, then keep increasing lumens until they said "This is
enough." I suspect they'd be satisfied with far, far less than 800 lumens.

a little more upward spew ...


IIRC, you did point out exactly one tree on a low-traffic single lane
road that had twigs that bothered you. Were there others? (Since I ride
almost entirely where motor vehicles pass, I haven't had that problem.)

and a stand light that was stronger ...


Can you describe the problem you've had because of your unsatisfactory
standlight? (I rode for decades with no standlight at all and no problems.)

-- and one with a battery so I could use the light off the bike. We transportational cyclists often need a light for use off the bike.


Seriously?

In the two bikes I ride most often at night, I have a giveaway LED light
in the bike bag in case I get a flat away from other lights. But the
batteries die from insufficient shelf life, not from use. What do you
use yours for?

A flasher would be nice for dusk and dawn, but not required. And while we're wishing, how about something lighter and more efficient than a bunch of magnets whirling around.


Nuclear! At the small cost of some radiation poisoning, we could save as
much as, oh, two ounces!

--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #72  
Old April 2nd 21, 09:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Eyc headlight problem

On 4/2/2021 3:32 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 4/2/2021 11:59 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:

You seem to have it stuck in your head that the internal impedance of
a hub
generator is some immutable quantity and not a design parameter. Why
not a
6V/12W hub dynamo?* Hell, if you were willing to do frequency dependent
series capacitor switching, you can get a lot more than 3W out of a 3W
labelled hub.


And yet virtually all the commonly available bike dynamos come out with
a half amp nominal design.* (So that wattage is half of voltage). I'm
told their coils "saturate" (or something like that) at a half amp.


The inductive reactance of the coils rises with frequency. When properly
designed, this nicely counters the tendency of the generated voltage to
rise with velocity or rpm. If necessary, a pair of zener diodes can trim
the peaks off the sine waves and give a bit closer regulation.

I've only been using dynamos over a span of 50 years.* I've owned 6V/3W
and 12V/6W generators, and once I saw an 8V/4W claim.* If there was a
big improvement to be had with some other amperage design, I would think
someone would have tried to market it by now.* Dynamo design might have
some complications, but surely they are well understood at this date.


As I understand it, the present standards arose in countries where they
use bikes more practically, and where they actually, rather than
theoretically, require lights on them at night. The uniform standard
meant one could easily buy replacement bulbs or lamps and be sure they
would be compatible - not unlike the system for sealed beam car headlights.

Mr. Scharf had mocked the 3 Watt power output, but it was proven
adequate for decades even with vacuum bulbs and more primitive optics;
at least, there were no piles of dead night cyclists. Halogen bulbs and
better optics made things much better, and efficient white LEDs and even
better optics have caused an even bigger jump in performance.

But now any small company can slap together an LED, a reflector, a lens,
a clamp and a battery and shoot for ever higher luman numbers. It's hard
to explain to consumers that bigger is not necessarily better, and that
there is such a thing as overkill.

I need to interrupt to make a point: I'd never say that everyone should
be using the systems I'm using. Not everyone wants or needs a light
that's ready all the time, and not everyone is capable of installing a
dynamo and a headlamp.

I will complain, though, about people who cheerfully use primitive high
power lights to blind others. And when people tell me my lights cannot
possibly be adequate, I will rebut.
--
- Frank Krygowski
  #73  
Old April 2nd 21, 09:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Eyc headlight problem

On 4/2/2021 11:59 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
sms wrote:
On 4/2/2021 9:00 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I don't love it. I would love a dyno light with a solid 800 lumen
output, a little more upward spew and a stand light that was stronger
than the light on my give-away key chain from Wells Fargo -- and one
with a battery so I could use the light off the bike. We
transportational cyclists often need a light for use off the bike. A
flasher would be nice for dusk and dawn, but not required. And while
we're wishing, how about something lighter and more efficient than a
bunch of magnets whirling around. There must be some other way of harvesting electrons.


Such a light would be wonderful but it would be a stretch with a 6V/3W
dynamo, even at higher speeds where you can get more than 3 watts out of
it. Some LED makers are claiming 300 lumens per watt, at least in the
lab, but 200-250 lumens per watt are what is available commercially at
this time.

A 12V/6W hub dynamo (or even a 9V/4.5W hub dynamo) would make dynamo
lights with sufficient intensity more practical, including a beam
pattern where some upward spew would be possible. DRL flash capability
is trivial to add, as are internal batteries to be able to use it off
the bicycle. But there is just not much of a market for any of this.


You seem to have it stuck in your head that the internal impedance of a hub
generator is some immutable quantity and not a design parameter. Why not a
6V/12W hub dynamo? Hell, if you were willing to do frequency dependent
series capacitor switching, you can get a lot more than 3W out of a 3W
labelled hub.


Not stuck at all. The problem with that approach, and it's already been
done via lowering the impedance by putting two bulbs (or LEDs) in series
is that you don't reach sufficient power at lower speeds.

One thing that some people have done (though it may be illegal in some
countries) is to use a dyno hub designed for a larger wheel on a smaller
wheel. A 20" wheel is around 1010 revolutions per mile, a 28" wheel is
about 720 revolutions per mile. This would get you more output at lower
speeds, but the current would still be 500mA, just at a higher voltage.
And of course it assumes that you want to ride a bicycle with small
wheels! And of course the drag would be greater than a dyno properly
sized to the wheel.

Practically speaking, the advantage of higher output dynamo would be
used with a bridge rectifier and a DC-DC buck converter to charge a
high-power battery powered headlight, or to operate it continuously at
lower than maximum power.

  #74  
Old April 2nd 21, 09:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Eyc headlight problem

On 4/2/2021 12:32 PM, Mark J. wrote:

snip

I've only been using dynamos over a span of 50 years.* I've owned 6V/3W
and 12V/6W generators, and once I saw an 8V/4W claim.* If there was a
big improvement to be had with some other amperage design, I would think
someone would have tried to market it by now.* Dynamo design might have
some complications, but surely they are well understood at this date.


I think that goal was to not increase the size of the coils and you need
thicker wire in the windings in order to get greater current but not to
get greater voltage.

Like you, I've been using dynamos for more than 50 years, bottle
dynamos, the Sanyo bottom bracket dynamo, and most recently hub dynamos.
Pre-LED, and pre-Li-Ion rechargeable batteries, dynamo lighting had more
appeal (to me) than it does now, though I still have several bicycles in
the fleet with dynamo lighting. I have a new-old-stock 12V bottle
dynamo, but IIRC, the drag on those is pretty high. But I have a beater
bicycle that I use to go to the store that I may install it on since for
those short rides the drag is not going to be an issue.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
“When science discovers the center of the universe, a lot of people will
be disappointed to find they are not it.” – Bernard Bailey
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  #75  
Old April 3rd 21, 12:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Eyc headlight problem

On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 12:32:51 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 4/2/2021 11:59 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
sms wrote:
On 4/2/2021 9:00 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I don't love it. I would love a dyno light with a solid 800 lumen
output, a little more upward spew and a stand light that was stronger
than the light on my give-away key chain from Wells Fargo -- and one
with a battery so I could use the light off the bike. We
transportational cyclists often need a light for use off the bike. A
flasher would be nice for dusk and dawn, but not required. And while
we're wishing, how about something lighter and more efficient than a
bunch of magnets whirling around. There must be some other way of harvesting electrons.

Such a light would be wonderful but it would be a stretch with a 6V/3W
dynamo, even at higher speeds where you can get more than 3 watts out of
it. Some LED makers are claiming 300 lumens per watt, at least in the
lab, but 200-250 lumens per watt are what is available commercially at
this time.

A 12V/6W hub dynamo (or even a 9V/4.5W hub dynamo) would make dynamo
lights with sufficient intensity more practical, including a beam
pattern where some upward spew would be possible. DRL flash capability
is trivial to add, as are internal batteries to be able to use it off
the bicycle. But there is just not much of a market for any of this.


You seem to have it stuck in your head that the internal impedance of a hub
generator is some immutable quantity and not a design parameter. Why not a
6V/12W hub dynamo? Hell, if you were willing to do frequency dependent
series capacitor switching, you can get a lot more than 3W out of a 3W
labelled hub.


And yet virtually all the commonly available bike dynamos come out with
a half amp nominal design. (So that wattage is half of voltage). I'm
told their coils "saturate" (or something like that) at a half amp.

I've only been using dynamos over a span of 50 years. I've owned 6V/3W
and 12V/6W generators, and once I saw an 8V/4W claim. If there was a
big improvement to be had with some other amperage design, I would think
someone would have tried to market it by now. Dynamo design might have
some complications, but surely they are well understood at this date.

Mark J.

It is because cyclists are such puny power supplies. It would be no
problem to design a more powerful generator into the hub of a bicycle
wheel if the power supply were great enough to power it.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #76  
Old April 3rd 21, 12:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
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Posts: 840
Default Eyc headlight problem

On 4/2/2021 4:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 12:32:51 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 4/2/2021 11:59 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
sms wrote:
On 4/2/2021 9:00 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I don't love it. I would love a dyno light with a solid 800 lumen
output, a little more upward spew and a stand light that was stronger
than the light on my give-away key chain from Wells Fargo -- and one
with a battery so I could use the light off the bike. We
transportational cyclists often need a light for use off the bike. A
flasher would be nice for dusk and dawn, but not required. And while
we're wishing, how about something lighter and more efficient than a
bunch of magnets whirling around. There must be some other way of harvesting electrons.

Such a light would be wonderful but it would be a stretch with a 6V/3W
dynamo, even at higher speeds where you can get more than 3 watts out of
it. Some LED makers are claiming 300 lumens per watt, at least in the
lab, but 200-250 lumens per watt are what is available commercially at
this time.

A 12V/6W hub dynamo (or even a 9V/4.5W hub dynamo) would make dynamo
lights with sufficient intensity more practical, including a beam
pattern where some upward spew would be possible. DRL flash capability
is trivial to add, as are internal batteries to be able to use it off
the bicycle. But there is just not much of a market for any of this.


You seem to have it stuck in your head that the internal impedance of a hub
generator is some immutable quantity and not a design parameter. Why not a
6V/12W hub dynamo? Hell, if you were willing to do frequency dependent
series capacitor switching, you can get a lot more than 3W out of a 3W
labelled hub.


And yet virtually all the commonly available bike dynamos come out with
a half amp nominal design. (So that wattage is half of voltage). I'm
told their coils "saturate" (or something like that) at a half amp.

I've only been using dynamos over a span of 50 years. I've owned 6V/3W
and 12V/6W generators, and once I saw an 8V/4W claim. If there was a
big improvement to be had with some other amperage design, I would think
someone would have tried to market it by now. Dynamo design might have
some complications, but surely they are well understood at this date.

Mark J.

It is because cyclists are such puny power supplies. It would be no
problem to design a more powerful generator into the hub of a bicycle
wheel if the power supply were great enough to power it.


No doubt this is why the *wattages* of all these generators are pretty
low. We had a 12V6W bottle generator on our tandem for years. It was
not an efficient model, but still. Even with double the cyclist power,
you could really feel the drag with that thing.

That doesn't explain why the *amperage* is consistently 0.5A on
virtually all the bike generators of the last ~30 years. I'm just
saying this consistency probably has a reason behind it.

Mark J.

  #77  
Old April 3rd 21, 12:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Eyc headlight problem

On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 12:46:51 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/2/2021 12:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 7:41:20 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/2/2021 12:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:

I rode across the US from east to west and north to south with a battery light. I did have a roller dynamo while commuting in San Jose in the 70s.

I did east to west with a roller dyno and a halogen headlight. I'm
betting your battery light was nowhere near as effective as my various
B&M lamps, yet we both survived. Yet you seem to now be claiming my
lights are ineffective.
...

My modern LED headlights light up as soon as the bike moves. And
most of them have "standlights" that would give enough illumination for
walking even if I somehow had to carry the bike.
But you don't have to like them. In fact, you don't have to keep the set
you have. I can trade you for an Oculus that will blind your enemies..
Think how safe you'll feel!

Hell, I built the wheel and hand drilled and tapped the cast aluminum crown on my CX bike just to mount the mood light. No way I'm getting rid of it. Is it as bright as my L&M urban 800 lumen light that cost one fifth and weighs one quarter of my dyno set up? No. Does my dyno light run forever, yes. That's worth something.
Hmm. It's terribly dim. It's just a "mood light." But you love it.

OK. Enjoy it.


I don't love it. I would love a dyno light with a solid 800 lumen output...


Seriously now: How did you decide that you need 800 lumens?


Who knows how many lumens my 800 max output L&M is really outputting, but on full beam, its adequate for most of my needs, which, BTW, are probably not your needs. Riding to the Thai cart last night, my route went through he https://tinyurl.com/3dpjx7yv Which goes to he https://tinyurl.com/c3k3vrbh Those are actually nasty little baby-heads. Keep going out and stop and look at the view -- twinkly lights at night: https://tinyurl.com/yb2fvv7b Now make a hard left up the hill -- that's like 20% and without some upward spew, you lose the road ahead of you, particularly when creeping up hill at a few mph -- and its worse in the cemetery where you lose whole intersections. Sorry no pictures because the Google car apparently does not go through the cemetery. Sometimes you need spew to illuminate landmarks.

I suspect it's because that's what the L&M has to put out to adequately
light the road, plus cook part of it with a hot spot and waste half of
it into the trees. Simplistic beams have inflated the demand for lumens.
Bicycle optics are where automotive optics were in the 1910s.


Its nice not just seeing people's feet riding up the road on my standard commute: https://tinyurl.com/53z5dcs8 The good thing about the modern era is that dogs wear lighted vests. On that road, you can actually hit your head on a tree if you're not paying attention.


I'd love to see a test where a sample of road riders tested a lamp whose
optics were properly designed for road use, but whose lumen output
varied. Start low, then keep increasing lumens until they said "This is
enough." I suspect they'd be satisfied with far, far less than 800 lumens..

a little more upward spew ...


IIRC, you did point out exactly one tree on a low-traffic single lane
road that had twigs that bothered you. Were there others? (Since I ride
almost entirely where motor vehicles pass, I haven't had that problem.)

and a stand light that was stronger ...


Can you describe the problem you've had because of your unsatisfactory
standlight? (I rode for decades with no standlight at all and no problems..)
-- and one with a battery so I could use the light off the bike. We transportational cyclists often need a light for use off the bike.

Seriously?


Absolutely. This is near the end of my commute: https://www.arcgis.com/sharing/rest/...813__w1920.jpg The measly stand light on the LUXOS makes the stairs sketch, and I try to ride the first half of the hill, but in my current condition, that is not possible. 64 wide spaced steps -- that picture is about the half-way point.

In the two bikes I ride most often at night, I have a giveaway LED light
in the bike bag in case I get a flat away from other lights. But the
batteries die from insufficient shelf life, not from use. What do you
use yours for?


Often seeing where I am going, like on the stairs, sometimes flats or fixing the bike. I use them in the garage a lot, but that doesn't count.

A flasher would be nice for dusk and dawn, but not required. And while we're wishing, how about something lighter and more efficient than a bunch of magnets whirling around.

Nuclear! At the small cost of some radiation poisoning, we could save as
much as, oh, two ounces!

My dyno probably adds a pound, but the commuter bike is such a pig, who knows what dyno weight/drag adds to the overall riding experience.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #78  
Old April 3rd 21, 01:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Eyc headlight problem

On 4/2/2021 7:45 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 4/2/2021 4:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 12:32:51 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 4/2/2021 11:59 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
sms wrote:
On 4/2/2021 9:00 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I don't love it.* I would love a dyno light with a solid 800 lumen
output, a little more upward spew and a stand light that was stronger
than the light on my give-away key chain from Wells Fargo -- and one
with a* battery so I could use the light off the bike.* We
transportational cyclists often need a light for use off the bike.* A
flasher would be nice for dusk and dawn, but not required.** And
while
we're wishing, how about something lighter and more efficient than a
bunch of magnets whirling around. There must be some other way of
harvesting electrons.

Such a light would be wonderful but it would be a stretch with a 6V/3W
dynamo, even at higher speeds where you can get more than 3 watts
out of
it. Some LED makers are claiming 300 lumens per watt, at least in the
lab, but 200-250 lumens per watt are what is available commercially at
this time.

A 12V/6W hub dynamo (or even a 9V/4.5W hub dynamo) would make dynamo
lights with sufficient intensity more practical, including a beam
pattern where some upward spew would be possible. DRL flash capability
is trivial to add, as are internal batteries to be able to use it off
the bicycle. But there is just not much of a market for any of this.


You seem to have it stuck in your head that the internal impedance
of a hub
generator is some immutable quantity and not a design parameter. Why
not a
6V/12W hub dynamo?* Hell, if you were willing to do frequency dependent
series capacitor switching, you can get a lot more than 3W out of a 3W
labelled hub.

And yet virtually all the commonly available bike dynamos come out with
a half amp nominal design.* (So that wattage is half of voltage). I'm
told their coils "saturate" (or something like that) at a half amp.

I've only been using dynamos over a span of 50 years.* I've owned 6V/3W
and 12V/6W generators, and once I saw an 8V/4W claim.* If there was a
big improvement to be had with some other amperage design, I would think
someone would have tried to market it by now.* Dynamo design might have
some complications, but surely they are well understood at this date.

Mark J.

It is because cyclists are such puny power supplies. It would be no
problem to design a more powerful generator into the hub of a bicycle
wheel if the power supply were great enough to power it.


No doubt this is why the *wattages* of all these generators are pretty
low.* We had a 12V6W bottle generator on our tandem for years.* It was
not an efficient model, but still.* Even with double the cyclist power,
you could really feel the drag with that thing.


The efficiency of bike dynos varies pretty greatly. I could check
numbers, but IIRC top quality hub dynos can hit 65% efficiency. Cheap
bottles can be as low as 40%.

I have a couple of those 12V 6W bottle dynos in a drawer. While I've
never formally tested their efficiency (as I have with some others), my
impression is that it's quite low. I tried one on my mountain bike years
ago and took it off pretty quickly. Also, ISTR the voltage was poorly
regulated, another sign of low design quality.

Another barrier to its use was the lack of an appropriate bulb. I
remember looking through (printed!) catalogs of bulbs but finding
nothing really good. Then there were the optics designed by a grade
school kid... which are not a barrier to sales these days, go figure!


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #79  
Old April 3rd 21, 01:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Eyc headlight problem

On 4/2/2021 4:45 PM, Mark J. wrote

snip

No doubt this is why the *wattages* of all these generators are pretty
low.* We had a 12V6W bottle generator on our tandem for years.* It was
not an efficient model, but still.* Even with double the cyclist power,
you could really feel the drag with that thing.


The bottle generator are pretty inefficient, around 30% while the most
efficient hub dynamos are over 70% efficient.

I haven't tried the VELOGICAL rim dynamo which claims 70% efficiency
http://www.velogical-engineering.com/velogical-rim-dynamo---standard-bicycle-dynamo---smooth-running-lightweight-efficient

That doesn't explain why the *amperage* is consistently 0.5A on
virtually all the bike generators of the last ~30 years.* I'm just
saying this consistency probably has a reason behind it.


Yes, it has to do with the wire gauge that would be necessary for a
higher current alternator. If you want 6 watts then you're better off
doing a 12V 0.5A alternator than a 6V 1A alternator, especially when
you're trying to minimize size and weight.

  #80  
Old April 3rd 21, 02:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Eyc headlight problem

On 4/2/2021 7:47 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 12:46:51 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/2/2021 12:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 7:41:20 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/2/2021 12:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:

I rode across the US from east to west and north to south with a battery light. I did have a roller dynamo while commuting in San Jose in the 70s.

I did east to west with a roller dyno and a halogen headlight. I'm
betting your battery light was nowhere near as effective as my various
B&M lamps, yet we both survived. Yet you seem to now be claiming my
lights are ineffective.
...

My modern LED headlights light up as soon as the bike moves. And
most of them have "standlights" that would give enough illumination for
walking even if I somehow had to carry the bike.
But you don't have to like them. In fact, you don't have to keep the set
you have. I can trade you for an Oculus that will blind your enemies.
Think how safe you'll feel!

Hell, I built the wheel and hand drilled and tapped the cast aluminum crown on my CX bike just to mount the mood light. No way I'm getting rid of it. Is it as bright as my L&M urban 800 lumen light that cost one fifth and weighs one quarter of my dyno set up? No. Does my dyno light run forever, yes. That's worth something.
Hmm. It's terribly dim. It's just a "mood light." But you love it.

OK. Enjoy it.

I don't love it. I would love a dyno light with a solid 800 lumen output...


Seriously now: How did you decide that you need 800 lumens?


Who knows how many lumens my 800 max output L&M is really outputting, but on full beam, its adequate for most of my needs, which, BTW, are probably not your needs. Riding to the Thai cart last night, my route went through he https://tinyurl.com/3dpjx7yv Which goes to he https://tinyurl.com/c3k3vrbh Those are actually nasty little baby-heads. Keep going out and stop and look at the view -- twinkly lights at night: https://tinyurl.com/yb2fvv7b Now make a hard left up the hill -- that's like 20% and without some upward spew, you lose the road ahead of you, particularly when creeping up hill at a few mph -- and its worse in the cemetery where you lose whole intersections. Sorry no pictures because the Google car apparently does not go through the cemetery. Sometimes you need spew to illuminate landmarks.

I suspect it's because that's what the L&M has to put out to adequately
light the road, plus cook part of it with a hot spot and waste half of
it into the trees. Simplistic beams have inflated the demand for lumens.
Bicycle optics are where automotive optics were in the 1910s.


Its nice not just seeing people's feet riding up the road on my standard commute: https://tinyurl.com/53z5dcs8 The good thing about the modern era is that dogs wear lighted vests. On that road, you can actually hit your head on a tree if you're not paying attention.


I'd love to see a test where a sample of road riders tested a lamp whose
optics were properly designed for road use, but whose lumen output
varied. Start low, then keep increasing lumens until they said "This is
enough." I suspect they'd be satisfied with far, far less than 800 lumens.

a little more upward spew ...


IIRC, you did point out exactly one tree on a low-traffic single lane
road that had twigs that bothered you. Were there others? (Since I ride
almost entirely where motor vehicles pass, I haven't had that problem.)

and a stand light that was stronger ...


Can you describe the problem you've had because of your unsatisfactory
standlight? (I rode for decades with no standlight at all and no problems.)
-- and one with a battery so I could use the light off the bike. We transportational cyclists often need a light for use off the bike.

Seriously?


Absolutely. This is near the end of my commute: https://www.arcgis.com/sharing/rest/...813__w1920.jpg The measly stand light on the LUXOS makes the stairs sketch, and I try to ride the first half of the hill, but in my current condition, that is not possible. 64 wide spaced steps -- that picture is about the half-way point.

In the two bikes I ride most often at night, I have a giveaway LED light
in the bike bag in case I get a flat away from other lights. But the
batteries die from insufficient shelf life, not from use. What do you
use yours for?


Often seeing where I am going, like on the stairs, sometimes flats or fixing the bike. I use them in the garage a lot, but that doesn't count.

A flasher would be nice for dusk and dawn, but not required. And while we're wishing, how about something lighter and more efficient than a bunch of magnets whirling around.

Nuclear! At the small cost of some radiation poisoning, we could save as
much as, oh, two ounces!

My dyno probably adds a pound, but the commuter bike is such a pig, who knows what dyno weight/drag adds to the overall riding experience.


OK, those photos explain a lot.

If you go back through past discussions on this topic (which is
unlikely), you can find many times when I said the systems I use are not
appropriate for riding off-road in woods. So I'm not surprised if you're
dissatisfied with the hub dyno and its headlight.

In fact, given my and others' statements on that point, I'm honestly
surprised you bought the system you did. You're mis-applying it. It
should be good for road riding, but not for stairs and single track.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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