Beaded tires higher cost than folding, why?

On 1/2/2017 7:33 PM, John B. wrote:


Question: How much tire pressure are you running? I used gatorskins
for a while and never had any sidewall problems.

We've had Gatorskins on our tandem for a couple years now. No sidewall
problems, and (knock wood) no flats yet. But I suspect I'm quite a bit
more careful than Joerg.

Admittedly, one reason I'm more careful is that I have a stoker who can
smack me at will! The first rule for a tandem captain is "Don't upset
the stoker."

--
- Frank Krygowski

tight ? how long are these tires lasting ? divide by cost

buy a new frame for 35-32

you have the wong tire consult Conti...uneeda commuter in 32

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 4:21:52 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-02 15:45, wrote:
On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 3:09:24 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
My last but one Gatorskin went, side wall damage, the usual. The
side wall on the rear tire looks iffy already and if that blows I'd
have no more spare for it. So it's time to refill the basement
stack. Unfortunately the CST Correre only comes in 700c*23mm. This
leaves the Gatorskin Hardshell with supposedly better side walls
but ... the 700c*25 beaded is $48, ouch, too much. To my surprise
the foldable is "only" $39. Why is that?

I don't want the normal Gatorskins anymore because the side walls
are too flimsy.

If anyone knows about another new tire that is very puncture
resistant and low cost that would be nice. Weight does not matter
and heavier is usually better.

The cost difference is invariably sales driven only. The folding
tires should always cost a little more than the steel beads but it's
a toss-up.

There are several tires out with reinforced treads but I haven't
found any that I like and are cheap.


CST makes the Correre and Conquistare series. However, they haven't
gotten the message yet that 25mm is the usual size these days.


Specialized Armadilloes cost an arm and a leg and they work better
than Gatorskins in my experience.

There is a new tire on the market that sounds just up your alley -
MICHELIN PRO4 ENDURANCE TIRE - CLINCHER - you can get them in 23, 25
and 28 mm from Competitive Cyclist for only $25.


Unfortunately they don't have 25mm.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/mi...FOQ0UgVElSRQ==

I'd like 28mm but it won't fit in my frame. 23mm is too iffy because of
numerous required offroad stints and the occasional heavy load.

I am also looking at the CST Conquistare which comes in 25mm but
unfortunately only the foldable one has 3-ply all across the sidewalls.
Whether on the MTB or the road bike only about half of my tires make it
to the end (where the surface is waron away) without a side wall giving up.


... All of the reviews
on them are good but the tire is still new yet.



Amazon wants almost $59 for the 25mmm. Yikes!

https://www.amazon.com/Michelin-Pro4...E4O?th=1&psc=1

I don't mind being the test rider if the specs are good. But not at $59.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I am pretty sure that they had the 25 when I put that not out. Man, the word should have gone out pretty fast. I bought a set of the 23's to test.

The Gatorskins are OK but they are pretty stiff and don't corner all that well. There's too much glass on the roads around here to have anything other than a reinforced tire.

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 4:45:56 PM UTC-8, JQ wrote:
On 1/2/2017 7:33 PM, John B. wrote:



On Mon, 02 Jan 2017 15:09:21 -0800, Joerg
wrote:



My last but one Gatorskin went, side wall damage, the usual. The side
wall on the rear tire looks iffy already and if that blows I'd have no
more spare for it. So it's time to refill the basement stack.
Unfortunately the CST Correre only comes in 700c*23mm. This leaves the
Gatorskin Hardshell with supposedly better side walls but ... the
700c*25 beaded is $48, ouch, too much. To my surprise the foldable is
"only" $39. Why is that?

I don't want the normal Gatorskins anymore because the side walls are
too flimsy.

If anyone knows about another new tire that is very puncture resistant
and low cost that would be nice. Weight does not matter and heavier is
usually better.


Question: How much tire pressure are you running? I used gatorskins
for a while and never had any sidewall problems.

As an aside, I had just as many punctures with gatorskins as I've had
with normal tires :-) But granted, we don't have any of those thorns
that you talk about.





I started using tire liners and I have been very
pleased with them. Only had one flat because I ran over a board
with a long tack. You are able to run the tire down much further
than you could without the liners making the cheaper tires work
just as well. I haven't noticed a performance loss either!

JQ - do you have a reference for those liners? I can't remember seeing them anywhere.

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 5:38:37 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2017 7:21 PM, Joerg wrote:


I'd like 28mm but it won't fit in my frame. 23mm is too iffy because of
numerous required offroad stints and the occasional heavy load.

I'm still amazed by the number of bikes that can't accept a 28mm tire.
I see no advantage to building that limitation into a bike.

Yet another advantage of older steel frames.

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 8:42:10 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2017 7:33 PM, John B. wrote:


Question: How much tire pressure are you running? I used gatorskins
for a while and never had any sidewall problems.

We've had Gatorskins on our tandem for a couple years now. No sidewall
problems, and (knock wood) no flats yet. But I suspect I'm quite a bit
more careful than Joerg.

Admittedly, one reason I'm more careful is that I have a stoker who can
smack me at will! The first rule for a tandem captain is "Don't upset
the stoker."

--
- Frank Krygowski

the Lake Effect

On 2017-01-03 06:27, wrote:
On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 5:38:37 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2017 7:21 PM, Joerg wrote:


I'd like 28mm but it won't fit in my frame. 23mm is too iffy because of
numerous required offroad stints and the occasional heavy load.

I'm still amazed by the number of bikes that can't accept a 28mm tire.
I see no advantage to building that limitation into a bike.

Yet another advantage of older steel frames.


This _is_ a steel frame and 1982 should count as old, Gazelle Trim
Trophy. This frame:

https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/234710/

28mm would go through there but only if the rear wheel is 110% true. Due
to a lot of offroad use it never is. In the front anything goes through.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-01-02 18:46, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
tight ? how long are these tires lasting ? divide by cost


Gatorskins last 2500mi on the rear which is better than the (much lower
cost) Vredesteins I used to ride. But $50 is too much.


buy a new frame for 35-32


Yeah, right, throw everything away and buy new.


you have the wong tire consult Conti...uneeda commuter in 32


Last time I wrote to Conti they didn't even bother to answer.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-01-03 06:21, wrote:
On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 4:21:52 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-02 15:45, wrote:

[...]


... All of the reviews on them are good but the tire is still
new yet.



Amazon wants almost $59 for the 25mmm. Yikes!

https://www.amazon.com/Michelin-Pro4...E4O?th=1&psc=1



I don't mind being the test rider if the specs are good. But not at $59.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I am pretty sure that they had the 25 when I put that not out. Man,
the word should have gone out pretty fast. I bought a set of the 23's
to test.

The Gatorskins are OK but they are pretty stiff and don't corner all
that well. ...


I don't care much about cornering since most of my stretches on the road
bike are straight shots for miles and miles. Curves are mostly gentle
like this:

https://www.traillink.com/photos/ame..._1802_trlc.jpg

An extreme is this bike path where you have to watch not to fall asleep
over the handlebar:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._bike_path.jpg


There's too much glass on the roads around here to have
anything other than a reinforced tire.


Here as well but of more concern are goat's head thorns. Only the best
Kevlar-armed tires survive and only if you run extra thick tubes. An
issue are the notoriously weak side walls of even expensive tires. It
takes only one thorn to flip over or to get in while leaning into a
curve. The tube damage is often so bad that it can be fixed reliably and
with my tubes that's $15-20 worth of damage every time.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-01-02 17:42, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2017 7:33 PM, John B. wrote:


Question: How much tire pressure are you running? I used gatorskins
for a while and never had any sidewall problems.

We've had Gatorskins on our tandem for a couple years now. No sidewall
problems, and (knock wood) no flats yet. But I suspect I'm quite a bit
more careful than Joerg.


The main reason is probably that you guys don't have these thorns laying
around everywhe

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...te_003_lhp.jpg


Admittedly, one reason I'm more careful is that I have a stoker who can
smack me at will! The first rule for a tandem captain is "Don't upset
the stoker."


I found that stokers are on the cell phone a lot. Tandems can be
difficult to pass during commute hours and sometimes I had to stay
behind one long enough to overhear heated conversations via phone. "Now
how often do I have to tell you NOT TO DO that!?" and so on.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/