|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:13:46 -0700, Benjamin Lewis
wrote: wrote: I agree that pros with races on the line may corner harder than we do, or that some of you (I can't say us) corner harder on descents. But most bicycling does not involve the kind of braking and cornering that's routine on motorcycles because most bicycling takes place at only 10 to 20 mph. That just means that "hard cornering" occurs at a smaller turning radius, so this is only true if you're talking about bicycles and motorcycles riding on the same or similar course (and perhaps you are; I'm just jumping in at random ) Dear Benjamin, True, I'm assuming similar courses. But the speed of most bicycle riding is limited not by the curves, but by the feeble motors. I doubt, for example, that Armstrong got up the Alp d'Huez that fast because of his cornering technique. Apart from one-way downhills, are there any bicycle races in which cornering is the deciding factor? That is, races in which riders who are roughly as fast on the straights are helpless to keep up because they corner too slowly? I know little about bicycle racing, so I'm curious if I'm missing something here. I certainly don't see much about cornering here on rec.bicycles.tech. Carl Fogel |
Ads |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Some people have good all-around athletic ability, and they will be good on
whatever they ride--horses, jet skiis, road bikes, mountain bikes and motorcycles. Others will look clumsy on a bicycle, and chances are they would make dangerous motorcycle riders. Chances are that a person without natural ability and coordination will not develop any skills to carry over. |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Some people have good all-around athletic ability, and they will be good on
whatever they ride--horses, jet skiis, road bikes, mountain bikes and motorcycles. Others will look clumsy on a bicycle, and chances are they would make dangerous motorcycle riders. Chances are that a person without natural ability and coordination will not develop any skills to carry over. |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
dw wrote: Do the 2-wheel skills go along when you use a metal motor? No. |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
dw wrote: Do the 2-wheel skills go along when you use a metal motor? No. |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
"Tom Nakashima" wrote: wrote in message ... Cornering isn't terribly important on bicycles, despite our proud claims to the contrary. You don't hear much about Lance Armstrong out-cornering the competition because bicycling is mostly slow-motion drag-racing. We usually pedal around at speeds so low that we wouldn't catch the eye of a traffic cop running a speed trap in a school zone. Carl Fogel Cornering isn't terribly important on bicycles? Have to disagree, and you may too if you've ever been in fast descents on a bicycle, where picking your line is important. I'm not sure if you remember the 1997 Tour de France when Richard Virenque was trying to put Jan Ullrich at great risk in the corners on one of the mountain states. The roads were wet and slick as Jan had pretty poor descending skills in the rain. Virenque knew this and took advantage of his winter training in the French alps. Ullrich nearly crashed and could have changed the outcome of the finish of the Tour, but he played it safe and let Richard have his day. Ulrich went on to win the Tour and the rest is history. Pardon me as I use this same anecdote to derive the opposite interpretation: Richard Virenque, a very good climber and superb descender with 7 King of the Mountains jerseys, was able to use his descending skills to steal a stage from Ullrich, who ultimately backed off rather than risk a little more on the descent. Ullrich, a notoriously poor descender, won that Tour de France, has finished on the GC podium in every Tour he has contested except the last one, has six TdF stage wins, won a Vuelta, an Olympic road race, and is generally considered a much stronger rider than Virenque. So in a circumstance where the prize to be won (a TdF stage) was much more valuable to Virenque than to Ullrich (who had his eyes on the yellow jersey, not a stuffed lion), and on a day of difficult conditions, Virenque was able to use his better descent to put Ullrich in difficulty. It's clear that on that particular day Ullrich's descending cost him a prize, but it seems that is one of the few days in which Ullrich's palmares suffered from his failings. I ride both, motorcycles, and bicycles, and ride them fast in the corners if I'm familiar with the road, or can visibly see the road ahead. Cornering on a motorcycle and cornering on a bicycle are two different things. Throttle plays an important role in corning on a motorcycle, something you don't have on a bicycles. As far as picking lines, it's about the same. At the lousy levels of racing in which I participate, I think that a decade of riding motorcycles has given me a lot more confidence in corners than some of my competitors. When the pack takes a tight corner 2 wide, I have no problem holding the inside line and cutting very tight on the exit. This is a dreadful line from a cornering-speed point of view, but the other riders are usually cautious enough that I don't lose anything by this, because my cornering speed is probably a little closer to the maximum possible on my line than theirs is on their line. I think the single biggest advantage to be gained from vehicular motorcycling to vehicular cycling is the situational awareness gained from having spent time as a vulnerable but low-footprint form of traffic. If you've spent much time as either a cyclist or a motorcyclist around cars, you'll find yourself watching for the same dangerous situations. -- Ryan Cousineau, http://www.wiredcola.com Verus de parvis; verus de magnis. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
"Tom Nakashima" wrote: wrote in message ... Cornering isn't terribly important on bicycles, despite our proud claims to the contrary. You don't hear much about Lance Armstrong out-cornering the competition because bicycling is mostly slow-motion drag-racing. We usually pedal around at speeds so low that we wouldn't catch the eye of a traffic cop running a speed trap in a school zone. Carl Fogel Cornering isn't terribly important on bicycles? Have to disagree, and you may too if you've ever been in fast descents on a bicycle, where picking your line is important. I'm not sure if you remember the 1997 Tour de France when Richard Virenque was trying to put Jan Ullrich at great risk in the corners on one of the mountain states. The roads were wet and slick as Jan had pretty poor descending skills in the rain. Virenque knew this and took advantage of his winter training in the French alps. Ullrich nearly crashed and could have changed the outcome of the finish of the Tour, but he played it safe and let Richard have his day. Ulrich went on to win the Tour and the rest is history. Pardon me as I use this same anecdote to derive the opposite interpretation: Richard Virenque, a very good climber and superb descender with 7 King of the Mountains jerseys, was able to use his descending skills to steal a stage from Ullrich, who ultimately backed off rather than risk a little more on the descent. Ullrich, a notoriously poor descender, won that Tour de France, has finished on the GC podium in every Tour he has contested except the last one, has six TdF stage wins, won a Vuelta, an Olympic road race, and is generally considered a much stronger rider than Virenque. So in a circumstance where the prize to be won (a TdF stage) was much more valuable to Virenque than to Ullrich (who had his eyes on the yellow jersey, not a stuffed lion), and on a day of difficult conditions, Virenque was able to use his better descent to put Ullrich in difficulty. It's clear that on that particular day Ullrich's descending cost him a prize, but it seems that is one of the few days in which Ullrich's palmares suffered from his failings. I ride both, motorcycles, and bicycles, and ride them fast in the corners if I'm familiar with the road, or can visibly see the road ahead. Cornering on a motorcycle and cornering on a bicycle are two different things. Throttle plays an important role in corning on a motorcycle, something you don't have on a bicycles. As far as picking lines, it's about the same. At the lousy levels of racing in which I participate, I think that a decade of riding motorcycles has given me a lot more confidence in corners than some of my competitors. When the pack takes a tight corner 2 wide, I have no problem holding the inside line and cutting very tight on the exit. This is a dreadful line from a cornering-speed point of view, but the other riders are usually cautious enough that I don't lose anything by this, because my cornering speed is probably a little closer to the maximum possible on my line than theirs is on their line. I think the single biggest advantage to be gained from vehicular motorcycling to vehicular cycling is the situational awareness gained from having spent time as a vulnerable but low-footprint form of traffic. If you've spent much time as either a cyclist or a motorcyclist around cars, you'll find yourself watching for the same dangerous situations. -- Ryan Cousineau, http://www.wiredcola.com Verus de parvis; verus de magnis. |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
|
#29
|
|||
|
|||
|
#30
|
|||
|
|||
Do the 2-wheel skills go along when you use a metal motor?
I ride both, although over the past twenty years the motorcycling has gone to near-zero (7500 miles on a 1985 VF500 Interceptor) while my cycling runs about 6,000 miles/year. I don't notice that much "skill transfer" between the two, to tell you the truth, other than the motorcycle helping to provide a lot of awareness of how much more stopping power you have on the front brake of a two-wheeled machine. From a safety standpoint, I find the two quite different. On a motorcycle, *everything* is about visibility. Your eyes are the most important thing you've got. Obviously they're essential on a bicycle as well, but I find that it's my ears (hearing) that lets me know of danger coming up behind me, while on a motorcycle, it's difficult to hear much of anything, what with the noise of the engine, wind & the helmet's ability to muffle anything else. On the other hand, I think riding a motorcycle makes you a *far* safer driver. On a motorcycle, you're constantly aware of what's going on to your sides, and assume that nobody can see you. That mean you're always making sure you have a way out; that you're never, ever in a position where there's cars on both sides of you. I find myself driving a car the same way. Trust no one. But that (making sure there's nobody on either side of you) doesn't apply to riding a bicycle, because cars are most often passing you on the left, and you're typically on the right-hand edge of the road with no opportunities (hopefully!) for somebody to pull up on your right. --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Rec.Bicycles Frequently Asked Questions Posting Part 1/5 | Mike Iglesias | General | 4 | October 29th 04 07:11 AM |
Cyclists are a Perverted Pestulance [Times Article 18/02] | David Off | UK | 70 | February 24th 04 10:50 PM |
Mutual respect - long-ish | vernon levy | UK | 4 | January 31st 04 07:04 PM |
FAQ | Just zis Guy, you know? | UK | 27 | September 5th 03 10:58 PM |