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Carlton Reid on QR safety
Carlton Reid has a puff piece about a new "Secure QR system" on bikebiz:
http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=6427 While promoting this new mechanism as "safer" than the existing system, he also insists that "industry experts say QRs are safe, when used correctly". This assertion is backed up with a quote from "industry expert" Bob Burns (actually Trek's *lawyer*), which is nothing more than a boilerplate denial dating to a few years ago when the QR/disk issue first surfaced. Strangely, alongside this there is no space in his article for these quotes from people who actually have some relevant engineering and technical experience: --- Chris Juden, Technical officer, CTC: "It's not just scaremongering, but all hangs together and makes perfect sense. In fact I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it before." "changes must be made to the way disk brakes and front wheels are attached to forks" Jobst Brandt, author, "The Bicycle Wheel": "The more I see on this the more I find the defense of the status quo stranger than fiction. Why are writers trying to say that it can't happen? What motivates writers to claim that disc brakes as currently offered are not a hazard? The mechanism has been clearly stated, the forces have been identified in magnitude and direction, and credible descriptions of failures have been presented. What's going on here! There is no easter bunny. Believe it!" John Forester, author, "Effective Cycling": "All that I can say is gross negligence." Unnamed Marzocchi Tech Support: "It is recommended that an 8" rotor is not used on a standard axle fork because the forces exerted on the wheel can potentially pull the axle out of the dropouts." Brant Richards, On-One: "From the next batch, our rigid forks will have dropouts which are angled forward at 45degrees or thereabouts. This is because when I was coming home, and pulling a stoppy outside my driveway, I kept finding the front wheel shifted in the dropout." Dave Gray, Surly: "You are correct. I've noticed the problem on my Karate Monkey fork." Ben Cooper, Kinetics, describing his experiment: "Conclusion: From the above, there seems to be an effect from the disc brake which causes the quick release to loosen." --- And even more strangely, although he mentions the ongoing Walmart case concerning children's bikes, and refers repeatedly to user error, he also didn't find space to mention the recent out of court settlement in which a manufacturer paid off an (experienced adult) rider who was seriously injured by a front wheel ejection on a disk+QR fork. James -- James Annan see web pages for email http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/ http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/ |
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Carlton Reid on QR safety
Those of us who have seen your prior postings about the issue of disc
brake ejections are fully aware of your position on the matter. Is it possible for you to accept the fact that for the majority of the readers, the evidence thus far published is not persuasive that there is a serious problem here which is not related to user error? Merely casting aspersions on an announcement because it contains a statement of fact by an attorney (which no one represented as anything but what it was) is not saying much about the subject. -- Typoes are a feature, not a bug. Some gardening required to reply via email. Words processed in a facility that contains nuts. |
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Carlton Reid on QR safety
Werehatrack wrote: Those of us who have seen your prior postings about the issue of disc brake ejections are fully aware of your position on the matter. Is it possible for you to accept the fact that for the majority of the readers, the evidence thus far published is not persuasive that there is a serious problem here which is not related to user error? Why do you claim to speak for the majority of readers, most of whom have expressed no public opinion on the matter? ...d |
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Carlton Reid on QR safety
Werehatrack wrote:
Those of us who have seen your prior postings about the issue of disc brake ejections are fully aware of your position on the matter. However, those who read Carlton's article on Bikebiz might think it safe to draw the conclusion that "industry experts say QRs are safe, when used correctly", even though numerous industry experts have quite clearly expressed the contrary view. They will also not know that one case was recently settled in favour of the rider. James -- James Annan see web pages for email http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/ http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/ |
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Carlton Reid on QR safety
Werehatrack writes:
Those of us who have seen your prior postings about the issue of disc brake ejections are fully aware of your position on the matter. Is it possible for you to accept the fact that for the majority of the readers, the evidence thus far published is not persuasive that there is a serious problem here which is not related to user error? All that would prove is that the majority of readers lack an adequate understanding of science. Given how weak science education is in the US, this is not a surprise. The situation with disk brakes is very simple. It is a faulty design that poses a danger to the people who use disk brakes. Current disk brake designs cause an ejection force that canpush the front wheel out of the dropout. There is no way for that the be refuted, although once again the strange phenomenon of people defending bad design will no doubt rear its head in this thread. |
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Carlton Reid on QR safety
James Annan writes:
Werehatrack wrote: Those of us who have seen your prior postings about the issue of disc brake ejections are fully aware of your position on the matter. However, those who read Carlton's article on Bikebiz might think it safe to draw the conclusion that "industry experts say QRs are safe, when used correctly", even though numerous industry experts have quite clearly expressed the contrary view. Don't appeal to authority. Just state the facts, which are simple and straightforward. |
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Carlton Reid on QR safety
James Annan wrote:
Werehatrack wrote: Those of us who have seen your prior postings about the issue of disc brake ejections are fully aware of your position on the matter. However, those who read Carlton's article on Bikebiz might think it safe to draw the conclusion that "industry experts say QRs are safe, when used correctly", even though numerous industry experts have quite clearly expressed the contrary view. They will also not know that one case was recently settled in favour of the rider. James Out of court settlements almost always include a statement that the plantiff is not admitting liability. It is often less costly to pay a small settlement than it is to defend the claim, particularly if the jurisdiction is known to be plaintiff-favorable. |
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Carlton Reid on QR safety
Tim McNamara writes:
Those of us who have seen your prior postings about the issue of disc brake ejections are fully aware of your position on the matter. Is it possible for you to accept the fact that for the majority of the readers, the evidence thus far published is not persuasive that there is a serious problem here which is not related to user error? All that would prove is that the majority of readers lack an adequate understanding of science. Given how weak science education is in the US, this is not a surprise. The situation with disk brakes is very simple. It is a faulty design that poses a danger to the people who use disk brakes. Current disk brake designs cause an ejection force that can push the front wheel out of the dropout. There is no way for that the be refuted, although once again the strange phenomenon of people defending bad design will no doubt rear its head in this thread. Yes. So why is this kind response to technical failures so common, be that valve stem separation, spoke failures, crank failures, stem failures and many more. They seem so personal and vehement that one would guess that the writers were the manufacturers themselves. I sense a strong apologists tone in many of these. Jobst Brandt |
#9
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Carlton Reid on QR safety
"David Martin" wrote in message oups.com... Werehatrack wrote: Those of us who have seen your prior postings about the issue of disc brake ejections are fully aware of your position on the matter. Is it possible for you to accept the fact that for the majority of the readers, the evidence thus far published is not persuasive that there is a serious problem here which is not related to user error? Why do you claim to speak for the majority of readers, most of whom have expressed no public opinion on the matter? ..d Does the fact that the majority of people have expressed no public opinion (read; interest) speak volumes as to the severity of the problem? Do YOU know the relevant statistics to say that this is a major problem or design flaw? Life is inherently risky and I for one would rather check my qr's before a ride and have disk brakes than try to do what I do with rim brakes. Just my 2p Andy H |
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Carlton Reid on QR safety
Andy H wrote:
Does the fact that the majority of people have expressed no public opinion (read; interest) Why do you read that? I have hitherto expressed no public opinion. I've read James' webpages on the subject and found his hypothesis interesting and convincing; I would have liked to investigate the QR vibrational loosening in more detail, but as I neither sell, use, maintain, nor have any access to disk brakes or QR axles, I could add nothing useful to the debate. R. |
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