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#21
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Remembering how to tie my shoes, going back for a do-rag
On 7/3/2020 6:18 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 1:47:27 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/3/2020 3:08 PM, Ted Heise wrote: On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:21:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/3/2020 9:03 AM, Ted Heise wrote: On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 13:01:58 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: Our tandem (like most bikes here) is fitted with Lyotard Mod 23 pedals or their MKS Urban Platform clones. Sheldon agreed with me that these, with toe clips, are the easiest pedals of all to slide into. The opening is like a big funnel. I can get my foot in faster than my friends can clip into their pedals. Well, my hat is off to you. I'm pretty practiced, and it still takes me an extra go-round or two to get the second pedal flipped so the toe clip is up. Maybe you don't mind the toe clip dragging on the ground for a stroke or two. The Lyotards are amazingly easy to get into. I just checked to see how it happens, so here are details: The pedal naturally hangs upside down, and the weight of the toe clip means the pedal surface is not exactly horizontal. The toe clip makes it tilt back a bit. When astride the bike and ready to go, my habit (now decades old) is to touch my left foot horizontally to the underside of the pedal, so the pedal pivots from its equilibrium position to horizontal and inverted. When I take my foot off the underside, the pedal swings forward and presents the long rear tab of the Lyotard to my toe. That swing seems to be the key. I slide in easily. So are you saying the pedal does a roughly 180 degree rotation after you lower your foot from its underside? That doesn't sound right, so I'm probably missing something. I think my technique may be somewhat similar. I place my foot on top of the pedal (toe clip side downward, where it naturally hangs), and when I take my foot off the pedal it swings forward just enough for me to get the toe of my shoe over the other face of the pedal. If I catch it right (maybe 60-70% of the time?), I can then get it pulled around far enough the same direction to let me slide the toe of my shoe in. It sounds to me like we do exactly the same thing. Except these pedals are so easy to get into, I slide in well over 90% of the time. Probably about 99%, actually. Maybe that curved tab on the model you use helps a lot. I've got Campagnolo Superleggeri pedals, so they are pretty much flat with both edges the same. It really does help a lot. FWIW, the pedals on my touring bike are different - they're the original quill style pedal that came with the bike. I added "Toe Flips" to the back edges of those pedals - a thin steel accessory that works similarly to the scoop or tab on the Lyotards. Here's a link, although you can't see the shape very well: https://aroundthecycle.com/products/...=8757518827580 I see that MKS markets something with similar intent, but very tiny: https://www.jensonusa.com/MKS-Spin-Pedal-Flips I'd be surprised if those helped as much. And the 'decades old" practice makes me wonder if it was really that simple when you began with it. Yes, it might have taken a while. Can't recall. That's how I get my left foot in while stationary. When I pedal, I normally do one or two strokes with my right foot on that pedal's underside, but same swinging action makes it dead easy to get my right foot in. Toe clips almost never scrape. How can you take one or two strokes without scraping? This doesn't make sense to me, but maybe you angle the pedal somehow. No, I don't even think about it. There is some ground clearance between the toe clip and the inverted pedal. Remember, it's not hanging loose; my foot is on it as it sits inverted. It's not that it never scrapes; but it is seldom. I just measured about 1.5" ground clearance. Obviously, that would vary with crank length, bottom bracket height and toe clip contours. I used to blow through Lyotard platform pedals because they were relatively cheap and had poor/non-existent seals. Cones would pit and bearings would fail, particularly since I wasn't that diligent repacking them every time I rode in the rain. Anyway, this points out another benefit of the M520s or better -- they have great seals. I repacked a set of pedals that were a decade old and that had been ridden in endless rain, and the grease was still intact and in good shape. Speaking of rain, another benefit of clipless is that your booties don't get beat-up by toe clips and don't hang-up on the toe clips when you're getting in to the pedal. My booties are not cheap. Back in the toe-clip days, I sewed my own booties. They were junk, but riding in California, they were rarely used and good enough. -- Jay Beattie. I didn't have bearing problems but I did wear through the top rivets in 10 or so years of daily use after which they just fall apart. (I gave up at the 3d pair) Nice pedal design overall, and Frank notes their magic 'always ready' balanced rest position, but with some very weak aspects. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#22
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Remembering how to tie my shoes, going back for a do-rag
On 7/3/2020 7:18 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I used to blow through Lyotard platform pedals because they were relatively cheap and had poor/non-existent seals. Cones would pit and bearings would fail, particularly since I wasn't that diligent repacking them every time I rode in the rain. I agree, the bearing seals are non-existent. On the one bike most often ridden in the rain, I cobbled together some rubber seals on my own. They improved the sealing from nothing to a bit better than nothing. And yes, some maintenance is required. The seals on the MKS copies are much, much better. I once knew a track racer, a big guy, who claimed to have bent the spindles on those Lyotards during sprints. I was never that strong. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#23
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Remembering how to tie my shoes, going back for a do-rag
On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:21:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: For Jeff: The downside is I won't learn as much about glue and rubber technology. (But thanks for that technical content.) No problem. Looks like you've solved your shoe problem. You may not be learning much about glue and rubber: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/hot-melt-glue/index.html but I'm learning some things about pedals, cleats, toe clips, straps, booties, tandems, and other things of which I know very little. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#24
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Remembering how to tie my shoes, going back for a do-rag
On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 16:47:23 -0400,
Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/3/2020 3:08 PM, Ted Heise wrote: On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:21:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/3/2020 9:03 AM, Ted Heise wrote: On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 13:01:58 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: Our tandem (like most bikes here) is fitted with Lyotard Mod 23 pedals or their MKS Urban Platform clones. Sheldon agreed with me that these, with toe clips, are the easiest pedals of all to slide into. The opening is like a big funnel. I can get my foot in faster than my friends can clip into their pedals. Well, my hat is off to you. I'm pretty practiced, and it still takes me an extra go-round or two to get the second pedal flipped so the toe clip is up. Maybe you don't mind the toe clip dragging on the ground for a stroke or two. The pedal naturally hangs upside down, and the weight of the toe clip means the pedal surface is not exactly horizontal. The toe clip makes it tilt back a bit. When astride the bike and ready to go, my habit (now decades old) is to touch my left foot horizontally to the underside of the pedal, so the pedal pivots from its equilibrium position to horizontal and inverted. When I take my foot off the underside, the pedal swings forward and presents the long rear tab of the Lyotard to my toe. That swing seems to be the key. I slide in easily. So are you saying the pedal does a roughly 180 degree rotation after you lower your foot from its underside? That doesn't sound right, so I'm probably missing something. I think my technique may be somewhat similar. I place my foot on top of the pedal (toe clip side downward, where it naturally hangs), and when I take my foot off the pedal it swings forward just enough for me to get the toe of my shoe over the other face of the pedal. If I catch it right (maybe 60-70% of the time?), I can then get it pulled around far enough the same direction to let me slide the toe of my shoe in. It sounds to me like we do exactly the same thing. Except these pedals are so easy to get into, I slide in well over 90% of the time. Probably about 99%, actually. Okay, thanks for the added detail. And the 'decades old" practice makes me wonder if it was really that simple when you began with it. Yes, it might have taken a while. Can't recall. That's how I get my left foot in while stationary. When I pedal, I normally do one or two strokes with my right foot on that pedal's underside, but same swinging action makes it dead easy to get my right foot in. Toe clips almost never scrape. How can you take one or two strokes without scraping? This doesn't make sense to me, but maybe you angle the pedal somehow. No, I don't even think about it. There is some ground clearance between the toe clip and the inverted pedal. Remember, it's not hanging loose; my foot is on it as it sits inverted. It's not that it never scrapes; but it is seldom. I just measured about 1.5" ground clearance. Obviously, that would vary with crank length, bottom bracket height and toe clip contours. Ah, I'm guessing my bike has a lower bottom bracket, possibly longer crank arms. Though as I recall, the degree of scraping does depend a bit on the angle of my foot (at the ankle). My fixed gear bike currently has Speedplay pedals on it--took the old Campy pedals off when we moved here, because it's only 1+ mile to work and not worth commuting by bike. -- Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA |
#25
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Remembering how to tie my shoes, going back for a do-rag
On 7/3/2020 10:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:21:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: For Jeff: The downside is I won't learn as much about glue and rubber technology. (But thanks for that technical content.) No problem. Looks like you've solved your shoe problem. You may not be learning much about glue and rubber: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/hot-melt-glue/index.html Hmm. If I'd seen that a few weeks ago, I might have continued using the old cycling shoes! -- - Frank Krygowski |
#26
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Remembering how to tie my shoes, going back for a do-rag
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 12:54:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 7/3/2020 10:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:21:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: For Jeff: The downside is I won't learn as much about glue and rubber technology. (But thanks for that technical content.) No problem. Looks like you've solved your shoe problem. You may not be learning much about glue and rubber: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/hot-melt-glue/index.html Hmm. If I'd seen that a few weeks ago, I might have continued using the old cycling shoes! I thought that might get your attention. Good to know that I'm not the only person who repairs their own shoes: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/index.html#shoes.jpg Using hot melt glue doesn't work with every type of rubber or hot melt glue. I got lucky and came close on my first attempt. The shoes in the photo worked well as long as I was walking on a fairly flat surface. However, when I started doing exercise walks through the local state park, on some rather rough trails, the hot melt glue eventually separated from the rubber sole, usually in large chunks. In other words, adhesion wasn't good enough when the sole was flexed. I did some experiments with surface preparation, which improved the situation. Acetone seems to be the best cleaner. Cutting shallow crosshatched grooves into the rubber sole helped. Note that hot melt glue is usually rubber based, so there are probably few issues with different rates of thermal expansion or material incompatibility. The best I've done so far is to simulate rubberized concrete. I'm using smooth sand, shredded soft rubber (bicycle inner tubes), small chunks of powdered automobile tires, and black hot melt glue sticks. It mostly works, but I don't believe I have the recipe optimized. I had the bright idea of using translucent hot melt glue sticks, so I could see when the glue line started to separate. Instead, I found that the clear glue didn't stick anywhere as well as the black glue sticks. At this time, I don't understand why. A good question to ask is why not use made for the purpose Shoe Goo? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe_Goo The problem is that it's too soft and wears out far too quickly. It works great as a gap filler and for re-attaching soles, but fails badly for replacing large worn areas, such as the heels. A glue that worked quite well for most everything was Awesome Goo: https://www.amazon.com/Awesome-Goo-CECOMINOD023727/dp/B003EB51CY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFKCWgiEFGU I used some to fix a microphone cable. Ugly, but functional: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/awesome-goo/ Unfortunately, the stuff was expensive. The company disappeared about 8 years ago and the supply dried up. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#27
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Remembering how to tie my shoes, going back for a do-rag
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 16:39:21 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 12:54:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/3/2020 10:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:21:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: For Jeff: The downside is I won't learn as much about glue and rubber technology. (But thanks for that technical content.) No problem. Looks like you've solved your shoe problem. You may not be learning much about glue and rubber: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/hot-melt-glue/index.html Hmm. If I'd seen that a few weeks ago, I might have continued using the old cycling shoes! I thought that might get your attention. Good to know that I'm not the only person who repairs their own shoes: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/index.html#shoes.jpg Using hot melt glue doesn't work with every type of rubber or hot melt glue. I got lucky and came close on my first attempt. The shoes in the photo worked well as long as I was walking on a fairly flat surface. However, when I started doing exercise walks through the local state park, on some rather rough trails, the hot melt glue eventually separated from the rubber sole, usually in large chunks. In other words, adhesion wasn't good enough when the sole was flexed. I did some experiments with surface preparation, which improved the situation. Acetone seems to be the best cleaner. Cutting shallow crosshatched grooves into the rubber sole helped. Note that hot melt glue is usually rubber based, so there are probably few issues with different rates of thermal expansion or material incompatibility. The best I've done so far is to simulate rubberized concrete. I'm using smooth sand, shredded soft rubber (bicycle inner tubes), small chunks of powdered automobile tires, and black hot melt glue sticks. It mostly works, but I don't believe I have the recipe optimized. I had the bright idea of using translucent hot melt glue sticks, so I could see when the glue line started to separate. Instead, I found that the clear glue didn't stick anywhere as well as the black glue sticks. At this time, I don't understand why. A good question to ask is why not use made for the purpose Shoe Goo? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe_Goo The problem is that it's too soft and wears out far too quickly. It works great as a gap filler and for re-attaching soles, but fails badly for replacing large worn areas, such as the heels. A glue that worked quite well for most everything was Awesome Goo: https://www.amazon.com/Awesome-Goo-CECOMINOD023727/dp/B003EB51CY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFKCWgiEFGU I used some to fix a microphone cable. Ugly, but functional: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/awesome-goo/ Unfortunately, the stuff was expensive. The company disappeared about 8 years ago and the supply dried up. The sole came off one of my wife's dress shoes and she brought it to her "Lord and Master" to be repaired. Not knowing a damned thing about shoe repair I eased on by one of those "Shoe Repair" places at the local super market and looked at what sort of "stuff" that guy was using to put shoes together with. Regular old contact cement :-) So I glued her shoe using Construction Cement, which is a sort of contact cement and a year or so later it is still holding. Although to be honest she only wears shoes to "affairs" (and before someone comments, sandals are the normal foot wear he-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#28
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Remembering how to tie my shoes, going back for a do-rag
On Sun, 05 Jul 2020 07:38:49 +0700, John B.
wrote: The sole came off one of my wife's dress shoes and she brought it to her "Lord and Master" to be repaired. Not knowing a damned thing about shoe repair I eased on by one of those "Shoe Repair" places at the local super market and looked at what sort of "stuff" that guy was using to put shoes together with. Regular old contact cement :-) Yep. That's what I use for repairing shoe uppers. However, it doesn't work for worn shoe sole or heel repair. That's why I was experimenting with hot melt glue. Incidentally, I've been cloned. This is exactly the method I used to repair the heels of my boots except I used much cheaper hot melt glue: "How To Fix Shoes & Worn Heels With Stormsure Adhesive | Repair Any Shoes Permanently!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpmnri5P13k Mine: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/hot-melt-glue/index.html So I glued her shoe using Construction Cement, which is a sort of contact cement and a year or so later it is still holding. Good substitute but comes in several flavors. https://polymerdatabase.com/Adhesives/Structural%20Adhesives.html Weldwood DAP contact cement is neoprene rubber dissolved in an assortment of nasty solvents: https://www.dap.com/media/4739/1021104english.pdf (Section 3) https://www.dap.com/products-projects/product-categories/adhesives/contact-cement/ Structural adhesives and contact cement may act the same, but they're not the same composition. Incidentally, please don't call it "construction cement". Google and I confuse cement with concrete and mortar. Although to be honest she only wears shoes to "affairs" (and before someone comments, sandals are the normal foot wear he-) I tried using DAP contact cement to repair the "bonding" between the uppers and the sole on one of my previous construction boots. It fell apart, along with most of the insole. I had been wearing them while using paint stripper (methylene chloride). The fumes attacked the contact cement which promptly fell apart. Be sure to tell your wife not to wear her dress shoes while using paint stripper. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#29
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Remembering how to tie my shoes, going back for a do-rag
On Saturday, July 4, 2020 at 7:39:23 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 12:54:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/3/2020 10:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:21:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: For Jeff: The downside is I won't learn as much about glue and rubber technology. (But thanks for that technical content.) No problem. Looks like you've solved your shoe problem. You may not be learning much about glue and rubber: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/hot-melt-glue/index.html Hmm. If I'd seen that a few weeks ago, I might have continued using the old cycling shoes! I thought that might get your attention. Good to know that I'm not the only person who repairs their own shoes: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/index.html#shoes.jpg The reason for replacing my old shoes was a chunk of black sole rubber disappeared. It didn't affect their cycling utility, but it looked weird and seemed a harbinger of further trouble. But your photo interested me enough to go shopping. While sitting at my computer, of course (but wearing pants). I'm having Jeff B send me some black hot melt glue, which until your photo, I didn't know existed. Besides the shoe repair, I've been wanting to cast a lens cover for a certain set of binoculars, and another for a gun scope. I think that glue may do the trick. - Frank Krygowski |
#30
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Remembering how to tie my shoes, going back for a do-rag
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 18:43:19 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Sun, 05 Jul 2020 07:38:49 +0700, John B. wrote: The sole came off one of my wife's dress shoes and she brought it to her "Lord and Master" to be repaired. Not knowing a damned thing about shoe repair I eased on by one of those "Shoe Repair" places at the local super market and looked at what sort of "stuff" that guy was using to put shoes together with. Regular old contact cement :-) Yep. That's what I use for repairing shoe uppers. However, it doesn't work for worn shoe sole or heel repair. That's why I was experimenting with hot melt glue. In my wife's case it was the entire sole and heel which was one unit. The upper and a sort of inner sole was originally glued to the sole and I simply re-glued it. It has been a lot of years since I wore boots but as I remember it, an always variable experience, the work boots I wore - Red Wings - had a solid sole/heel construction. Similar to https://tinyurl.com/y7tbztld I remember when the price went up to Singapore $100, about US$90, I think, and I quit wearing them and went to an Indonesian made work boot which not only cost much less but wore just as well as the Red Wings :-) Incidentally, I've been cloned. This is exactly the method I used to repair the heels of my boots except I used much cheaper hot melt glue: "How To Fix Shoes & Worn Heels With Stormsure Adhesive | Repair Any Shoes Permanently!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpmnri5P13k Mine: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/hot-melt-glue/index.html So I glued her shoe using Construction Cement, which is a sort of contact cement and a year or so later it is still holding. Good substitute but comes in several flavors. https://polymerdatabase.com/Adhesives/Structural%20Adhesives.html Weldwood DAP contact cement is neoprene rubber dissolved in an assortment of nasty solvents: https://www.dap.com/media/4739/1021104english.pdf (Section 3) https://www.dap.com/products-projects/product-categories/adhesives/contact-cement/ Structural adhesives and contact cement may act the same, but they're not the same composition. Incidentally, please don't call it "construction cement". Google and I confuse cement with concrete and mortar. Although to be honest she only wears shoes to "affairs" (and before someone comments, sandals are the normal foot wear he-) I tried using DAP contact cement to repair the "bonding" between the uppers and the sole on one of my previous construction boots. It fell apart, along with most of the insole. I had been wearing them while using paint stripper (methylene chloride). The fumes attacked the contact cement which promptly fell apart. Be sure to tell your wife not to wear her dress shoes while using paint stripper. -- Cheers, John B. |
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