Aero vs. regular Wheels

On Sep 17, 3:00 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
I'm looking for opinions. Will aero rims/spokes really make any noticable
difference on flat riding at higher speeds, or no? Will these be as
strong/durable for a larger rider relative to the open-pro with conventional
spokes? Will they be as easy to re-true? Will they give a harsher ride? Can
I get replacement spokes if one breaks?

A wheelset with a 30mm deep aluminum rim and aero spokes should be ~1%
faster on the flat than what you have now. That isn't something you
will feel, but if you are competitve it could make a difference. The
nice thing is that these deeper rims have good stiffness, and cost no
more than Open Pros... the spokes can be expensive though. As an
example you could use 32h Record hubs with 32 spokes in the back with
conventional lacing, and 24 in the front using a modified crows foot
pattern and a 24h rim. With CX-Rays and Niobium 30mm rims they'd be
light (~1520g), but you could also use Deep V or DT1.2 rims and
heavier butted spokes for greater durability. The parts are common,
easy to service, and cheap to replace. See the Mavic R-Sys thread for
Carl's excellent assessment of the radial stiffness issue.

Unfortunately a custom built wheelset will cost a lot more than a
Record/Open Pro on sale at Performance, so if that will meet your
requirements it is a great value.

In article
. com,
bfd wrote:

On Sep 17, 2:00 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
I'll probably be looking at the Mavic Ksyrium elite. If I build,
I'll likely get Campy record hubs and a similar mavic open pro rim that I
have on the older bike. The cost of each will probably be similar.

Will the cost really be similar? Assuming for a second that they are,
one thing to consider is replacement cost. IF you crash your wheel,
how much would a replacement rim and/or spokes be for the Ksyrium?
Check it out, many boutique wheels, like the Mavic Kysrium and Campy,
have very, very expensive spokes and replacement rims. Its so
expensive that I've seen broken wheels being sold for parts.

Further, some wheels, like Topolinos, can't be repaired by "any
bikeshop USA," and instead have to be returned to the factory. If
that is the case, don't know about Mavic boutiques, then what is the
cost of being without?

I know boutique wheels are in and just about everybody rides them, but
good 28h (if you're light enough), 32h or even 36h spoke wheels using
Campy or Shimano hubs with good spokes from DT, Sapim or Wheelsmith
and rims from Mavic, Velocity and many others are the cheapest and
easiest way to get you out on the road. Further, it can get you back
on the road the fastest.

Of course, if "aero" is the main need, then you'll need to look
closely at the boutiques....

Happily, the last bit is not completely so.
Good aerodynamic wheels can be built up from
quality replaceable parts. Various rim manufacturers
build deep profile rims that are aerodynamic.

--
Michael Press

On Sep 17, 3:00 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
I've been off a bike for a few years and now getting back on. ...putting
together a new road bike. ...mostly interested in good fit and comfort for
hard training and longer rides. I'm not interested in spending a fortune for
a few less grams which really don't mean anything, but I am interested in a
durable and strong set of wheels as I'm a bit over 200 pounds and will ride
the bike very hard at over 20mph.

I need to either buy or build a wheelset for the new frame. The last set I
built were 32 spoke double-butted DT spokes on Mavic open pro rims. I've put
a few thousand miles on them with nothing more than an occasional touch-up
truing once or twice a year. ...but now I need a second set for the new
frame, and am wondering about the newer aero wheels.

I hear all of the hype, but don't know what to believe. If I get something
like that, I'll probably be looking at the Mavic Ksyrium elite. If I build,
I'll likely get Campy record hubs and a similar mavic open pro rim that I
have on the older bike. The cost of each will probably be similar.

How about Velocity Fusion rims or DT 1.2...Record hubs, aero-
ish(bladed) spokes in the front.

I'm looking for opinions. Will aero rims/spokes really make any noticable
difference on flat riding at higher speeds, or no?

Perhaps in a wind tunnel but in everyday riding, I would say no.
Reliability is the key here.
Will these be as
strong/durable for a larger rider relative to the open-pro with conventional
spokes? Will they be as easy to re-true? Will they give a harsher ride? Can
I get replacement spokes if one breaks?

Not as strong as a well built wheelset, gotta hand ointo the spokes to
retrue as they are straight pull, Not a harsher ride, spokes are hard
to find.

Fusion, DT 1.1(dbl eyelet), 1,2..Record hubs, the way to go..OpenPros
are 3rd on my list of rims.

Thanks

Jeff

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

On Sep 17, 3:23 pm, bfd wrote:
On Sep 17, 2:14 pm, bfd wrote:



On Sep 17, 2:00 pm, "Jeff" wrote:I'll probably be looking at the Mavic Ksyrium elite. If I build,
I'll likely get Campy record hubs and a similar mavic open pro rim that I
have on the older bike. The cost of each will probably be similar.

Will the cost really be similar? Assuming for a second that they are,
one thing to consider is replacement cost. IF you crash your wheel,
how much would a replacement rim and/or spokes be for the Ksyrium?
Check it out, many boutique wheels, like the Mavic Kysrium and Campy,
have very, very expensive spokes and replacement rims. Its so
expensive that I've seen broken wheels being sold for parts.

Further, some wheels, like Topolinos, can't be repaired by "any
bikeshop USA," and instead have to be returned to the factory. If
that is the case, don't know about Mavic boutiques, then what is the
cost of being without?

I know boutique wheels are in and just about everybody rides them, but
good 28h (if you're light enough), 32h or even 36h spoke wheels using
Campy or Shimano hubs with good spokes from DT, Sapim or Wheelsmith
and rims from Mavic, Velocity and many others are the cheapest and
easiest way to get you out on the road. Further, it can get you back
on the road the fastest.

Of course, if "aero" is the main need, then you'll need to look
closely at the boutiques....

Also, if you're a big guy/clydesdale type rider and want to use Campy
rear hubs, then you may also want to look into an "offset" rear rim
like Ritchey OCR or Velocity Aerohead OC. The offset rear rim "makes
spoke tension more uniform for greater reliability and strength."

For more check out Andy Muzi at Yellow Jersey:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/velrim.html

At about $50-60 per rim, it is very reasonable, or at least appears to
be compared to a Kysirum or Campy rim. Good Luck!

I'm sure gonna here about how Aerohead OCs for a .1 offa ton rider is
fine and dandy but I think they are too light for this gent..just my
opinion and using a non offset rim with Campag hubs and a big rider is
no big deal. Have built dozens for big riders and rims I have
mentioned..DT, Velocity Fusion.

On Sep 18, 7:37 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
wrote:

I'm sure gonna here about how Aerohead OCs for a .1 offa ton rider is
fine and dandy but I think they are too light for this gent..just my
opinion and using a non offset rim with Campag hubs and a big rider is
no big deal. Have built dozens for big riders and rims I have
mentioned..DT, Velocity Fusion.

Uninterrupted ride times for those with real life schedules, most
important. One solution is having two sets of interchangable wheels,
built from readily available components chosen "durability first".

FWIW dept: I've ridden Velocity Aero front, OC rear (both 36h) for at
least a year now. Yup, too light for us .1 tonners, and the 23mm tires
are too small, too. But not really "marginal" IME. The rear has taken
a few good shots recently and climbed some hard (for us) hills, and
has finally come a little out of true. Fine service IMHO. Maybe a good
choice for a "light" (or "event") second set of wheels, with something
beefier for the daily riders. --D-y

On Sep 18, 7:37 am, " wrote:
On Sep 18, 7:37 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"

wrote:

I'm sure gonna here about how Aerohead OCs for a .1 offa ton rider is
fine and dandy but I think they are too light for this gent..just my
opinion and using a non offset rim with Campag hubs and a big rider is
no big deal. Have built dozens for big riders and rims I have
mentioned..DT, Velocity Fusion.

Uninterrupted ride times for those with real life schedules, most
important. One solution is having two sets of interchangable wheels,
built from readily available components chosen "durability first".

FWIW dept: I've ridden Velocity Aero front, OC rear (both 36h) for at
least a year now. Yup, too light for us .1 tonners, and the 23mm tires
are too small, too. But not really "marginal" IME. The rear has taken
a few good shots recently and climbed some hard (for us) hills, and
has finally come a little out of true. Fine service IMHO. Maybe a good
choice for a "light" (or "event") second set of wheels, with something
beefier for the daily riders. --D-y

I guess I would consider 36h...for us(and him) .1 offa tonners..not
32h and Aerohead/OC tho...but I'm pretty conservative in my idea of
wheels.

On Sep 17, 11:00 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
I've been off a bike for a few years and now getting back on. ...putting
together a new road bike. ...mostly interested in good fit and comfort for
hard training and longer rides. I'm not interested in spending a fortune for
a few less grams which really don't mean anything, but I am interested in a
durable and strong set of wheels as I'm a bit over 200 pounds and will ride
the bike very hard at over 20mph.

I need to either buy or build a wheelset for the new frame. The last set I
built were 32 spoke double-butted DT spokes on Mavic open pro rims. I've put
a few thousand miles on them with nothing more than an occasional touch-up
truing once or twice a year. ...but now I need a second set for the new
frame, and am wondering about the newer aero wheels.

I hear all of the hype, but don't know what to believe. If I get something
like that, I'll probably be looking at the Mavic Ksyrium elite. If I build,
I'll likely get Campy record hubs and a similar mavic open pro rim that I
have on the older bike. The cost of each will probably be similar.

I'm looking for opinions. Will aero rims/spokes really make any noticable
difference on flat riding at higher speeds, or no? Will these be as
strong/durable for a larger rider relative to the open-pro with conventional
spokes? Will they be as easy to re-true? Will they give a harsher ride? Can
I get replacement spokes if one breaks?

Thanks

Jeff

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

What about building your own aero wheels? For instance deep section
aroe rims with 24 or 28 spokes laced two or three cross. These will
be a heck of a lot more durable than the boutique wheels with what--
eighteen spokes?--while offering similar aerodynamic benifits. This
has been my dream--when I have some spare change to burn own such
things.

On Sep 18, 5:37 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
wrote:
On Sep 17, 3:23 pm, bfd wrote:





On Sep 17, 2:14 pm, bfd wrote:

On Sep 17, 2:00 pm, "Jeff" wrote:I'll probably be looking at the Mavic Ksyrium elite. If I build,
I'll likely get Campy record hubs and a similar mavic open pro rim that I
have on the older bike. The cost of each will probably be similar.

Will the cost really be similar? Assuming for a second that they are,
one thing to consider is replacement cost. IF you crash your wheel,
how much would a replacement rim and/or spokes be for the Ksyrium?
Check it out, many boutique wheels, like the Mavic Kysrium and Campy,
have very, very expensive spokes and replacement rims. Its so
expensive that I've seen broken wheels being sold for parts.

Further, some wheels, like Topolinos, can't be repaired by "any
bikeshop USA," and instead have to be returned to the factory. If
that is the case, don't know about Mavic boutiques, then what is the
cost of being without?

I know boutique wheels are in and just about everybody rides them, but
good 28h (if you're light enough), 32h or even 36h spoke wheels using
Campy or Shimano hubs with good spokes from DT, Sapim or Wheelsmith
and rims from Mavic, Velocity and many others are the cheapest and
easiest way to get you out on the road. Further, it can get you back
on the road the fastest.

Of course, if "aero" is the main need, then you'll need to look
closely at the boutiques....

Also, if you're a big guy/clydesdale type rider and want to use Campy
rear hubs, then you may also want to look into an "offset" rear rim
like Ritchey OCR or Velocity Aerohead OC. The offset rear rim "makes
spoke tension more uniform for greater reliability and strength."

For more check out Andy Muzi at Yellow Jersey:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/velrim.html

At about $50-60 per rim, it is very reasonable, or at least appears to
be compared to a Kysirum or Campy rim. Good Luck!

I'm sure gonna here about how Aerohead OCs for a .1 offa ton rider is
fine and dandy but I think they are too light for this gent..just my
opinion and using a non offset rim with Campag hubs and a big rider is
no big deal. Have built dozens for big riders and rims I have
mentioned..DT, Velocity Fusion.- Hide quoted text -

Thanks, I knew Velocity made an offset rim, I didn't know it was "too
light." It also appears that Ritchey has discontinued selling its rims
and now only offers complete wheels. Who the heck does he think he is?
Mavic?!#@#% That's not right!

On Sep 17, 3:52 pm, Hank Wirtz wrote:
And Remember, PerformanceBike.com has 32H Open Pros with Campy Record
hubs and DT 14/15 spokes for $300 every day. The hubs are mismatched,
2007 (black) rear and 2006 (silver) front, but that's a great price
either way. And who knows, they may have run out of 2006 fronts by
now.
See http://preview.tinyurl.com/3ct7gr

Yes, Performance deal on Campy Record hubs/Mavic OP rims is arguably
one of the best deals on the web! If you wait for one of those 20% off
coupons and/or free shipping days, then you really can score. My buddy
got one of these wheels sets this way when Performance had the wheel
for like $250 and with one of those 20% off coupons, plus free
shipping, he ended up paying like $220 out the door!!! Bargain!

"Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" wrote in
message oups.com...


Fusion, DT 1.1(dbl eyelet), 1,2..Record hubs, the way to go..OpenPros
are 3rd on my list of rims.

I've recently discovered the DT rims on Colorado Cyclist and Excel. ...looks
like I'm leaning toward the 1.1 or 1.2 rims with DT 240 hubs and 14/15
double-butted spokes in 32 hole with 3-cross pattern (and forgetting about
the boutique wheels as others have called them). If I didn't build/re-true
my own wheels, I would likely go with 36s, but my current 32s work well and
only require a quick (and very minor) retrue perhaps every two months or
so - no real problem when you have a truing stand handy. ...and I've been
running 23s for tires without a problem (at 120-130 psi or sometimes higher
depending on the tire). In thinking about this more, if I'm by myself, I
don't care about the seconds saved with the aero. ...in climbing, the extra
weight of the aero really won't be substantial in any meaningful way for my
type of riding. The only place where it may have a marginal effect is if I'm
with a very fast group (e.g., 22-26 mph) where I'm having trouble keeping up
(as the slowest there), when I'm running near 100% to stay in the paceline.
....but then I'll mostly be drafting so the aero won't matter much if at all.

So perhaps I'll go for the deeper V rims like the DT 1.2 with standard round
spokes (the V rim of the 1.2 are the same price as the 1.1).

I did notice (after someone here mentioned it), that I can get already built
custom wheels from Colorado cheaper than buying the parts separately and can
still specify the spoke type and lacing pattern. ...but Excel charges a
building fee so that the custom built wheels are more expensive than the
separate parts.

....but Excel has the DT 1.2 (as well as the 1.1), while Colorado only has
the 1.1 in DT brand.

So:
1) anyplace else good for buying wheelbuilding components that could better
the Colorado or Excel prices?
2) any other comments about the choices above?

Thanks

Jeff


--
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