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"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"



 
 
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  #321  
Old March 27th 04, 02:22 AM
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Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Tom C Medara writes:

As I said, it's the "over the top" effect that limits braking.
Most road riders do not brake near that limit so it isn't a
parameter.


Isn't that an inherent design flaw? Perhaps we should refer to it
as the OTB force from this point on and ask ourselves why the
manufacturers continue to market such a product. And why hasn't the
CPSC stepped in?


Just wondering....


The hell you say! Maybe bicycles should be banned because you can
fall over if you stop and don't put your foot down... on the side to
which the bicycle leans.

Coming up with such remarks makes me doubt that there is anything more
behind much of this "there is no problem" talk than a desire to be
contra. Either that or it is a defense of having bought a disc brake
bicycle and making a defense of how good a decision that was. Other
than something on that vein, I don't see why all this ad hominem is
crudely rising against the concept that current disc brakes pose a
hazard and one that could be easily fixed.

Jobst Brandt

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  #324  
Old March 27th 04, 03:18 AM
tcmedara
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Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

wrote:
Tom C Medara writes:

Coming up with such remarks makes me doubt that there is anything more
behind much of this "there is no problem" talk than a desire to be
contra.


That's not it at all, I just thought it would be funny (a routine occurance
in AM-B, it appears to be an oft mis-understood phenomenon among the rbt
crowd, Mr Fogel and a few others excepted). As far as my reponse to the
"problem", it stems from my innate skepticism and appreciation for the
empirical rather than any sort of contrary nature. You gotta problem wid
dat? (------ another joke)

Either that or it is a defense of having bought a disc brake
bicycle and making a defense of how good a decision that was.


I don't own a bike with disks, though I'm looking hard at building up a set
of disk wheels and dropping the money on some Avid mechs. Any
recommendations?

Other
than something on that vein, I don't see why all this ad hominem is
crudely rising against the concept that current disc brakes pose a
hazard and one that could be easily fixed.


In light of the crusade-like nature of the discourse, I opted out of the
serious discussion days ago. Mr Hickey is doing quite well without my aid.
My posts in this thread of late have been more "ad humorem" rather than ad
hominem (please excuse my Latin, but you get the point)

None the less.....the "OTB" force analogy isn't totally spurious, methinks.

Tom


  #325  
Old March 27th 04, 03:39 AM
Stephen Baker
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Jobst says:

people talk of hanging off the back of the saddle to
achieve a lower center of gravity,


Nothing to do with lowering the CG, rather moving it aft to increase the
"rider-to-pivot-point" lever arm, thus making it harder to endo. Admittedly,
the CG does get lowered a little, but it's really about shifting weight
backwards.

Steve
  #326  
Old March 27th 04, 05:09 AM
Edd Brady
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Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

If you want to experience real stopping capability, try a tadpole (2
wheels in front ) recumbent trike with disc brakes on both front
wheels and a low center of gravity.

Edd
  #327  
Old March 27th 04, 05:11 AM
Tim McNamara
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Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Mark Thompson writes:

perhaps pumice or slickrock might equal or exceed cement pavement.


ahem pavement? :-)


Hmm. Some attempt at humor that's escaping the American? :-)
  #328  
Old March 27th 04, 06:33 AM
Tom Sherman
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Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Edd Brady wrote:

If you want to experience real stopping capability, try a tadpole (2
wheels in front ) recumbent trike with disc brakes on both front
wheels and a low center of gravity.


Subjectively the stopping power of the trike will seem less effective
than it really is, since the rider braces against deceleration with the
(much stronger) legs rather than the (much weaker) arms. It is also less
exciting, since locking up a wheel is not usually a problem as far as
balance or directional control is concerned.

--
Tom Sherman - Blue Earth Cycles Dragonflyer
http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/df1a.jpg

  #329  
Old March 27th 04, 07:20 AM
Richard Brockie
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Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Tom Sherman wrote:

Edd Brady wrote:

If you want to experience real stopping capability, try a tadpole (2
wheels in front ) recumbent trike with disc brakes on both front
wheels and a low center of gravity.


Subjectively the stopping power of the trike will seem less effective
than it really is, since the rider braces against deceleration with the
(much stronger) legs rather than the (much weaker) arms. It is also less
exciting, since locking up a wheel is not usually a problem as far as
balance or directional control is concerned.


You could make it quite exciting by locking your brakes and launching
yourself forwards into an upright position to continue on foot.

--
R.

Richard Brockie "Categorical statements
The tall blond one. always cause trouble."


  #330  
Old March 27th 04, 08:05 AM
G.T.
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Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"


"Benjamin Lewis" wrote in message
...
Anonymous "expert" snipes again:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:33:52 -0800, Benjamin Lewis wrote:

- loose surfaces don't lend themselves well to hard front braking.

(I
suppose this holds for most mountain biking though.)
- you can't brake as hard going downhill before lifting your rear
wheel
(maybe this isn't true; that's just my immediate intuition).

Sorry, but you're way out.

Well, I'm sorry too, but just telling me I'm wrong without attempting

to
explain why is hardly likely to convince me.


Sorry, I hadn't realise we were trying to convince you of anything. I
figured a certain amount of humility on your part would prevail when
discussing a subject, of which you have little/no experience, with a
group that has it by the bucketload.


Give me a break. Even if I knew you, considered you an expert, and
respected your opinions, if you disagreed with me I would expect you to
tell me why. Just saying "sorry, you're wrong" is useful to nobody.

As it is, you're just an anonymous poster on usenet. I never even

insisted
my first intuitions were correct, I just said, in effect, "this is what I
would have expected, for these reasons". If you want me to blindly

believe
*your* statements, just because you claim to be from "a group with lots of
experience", you've got a long wait ahead of you.

The only person yet to have offered a reasonable explanation why
instantaneous braking forces can be higher on DH runs is Jobst Brandt,
elsewhere in this thread.


Ah, yes, Jobst Brandt, that paragon of off-road downhilling.

Greg


 




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