BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock

On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 05:04:22 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. wrote:

Given that many of the commercial "bicycle
locks" can be rather easily cut with hand
tools

This cannot in reasonable time unless there is
a hand tool and/or method I'm unfamiliar with.
There is something with the plastic that
prevents you from getting the power down to the
wire. If you keep at it, you'll succeed
eventually, of course, but no thief will do
that out in the open to get a bike of this
(monetary) value.


Try a 4 inch angle grinder with a 1mm cut-off wheel. You can cut a
cable about as fast as you can push the grinder.

But I think that you last point is the important one. "A bike of this
value". I live about 500 mtrs from a subway station and there are
always a number of bicycles tied up to posts in the area. Very
noticeable they are all old, dirty, grungy, things that no body would
want. Some aren't even locked. I've yet to see a $3,000 carbon fiber
racing bike parked there :-)

I have always considered bicycle locking
devices as something the prevent a casual
thief from stealing the bicycle

It prevents the everyday drunk/messed up kid
from just rolling away with it. With this kind
of lock, that can't happen and for the
determined thief with tools etc there are many
other bikes right nearby which will be much
less work.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. wrote:

Given that many of the commercial "bicycle
locks" can be rather easily cut with hand
tools

This cannot in reasonable time unless there
is a hand tool and/or method I'm unfamiliar
with. There is something with the plastic
that prevents you from getting the power
down to the wire. If you keep at it, you'll
succeed eventually, of course, but no thief
will do that out in the open to get a bike
of this (monetary) value.

Try a 4 inch angle grinder with a 1mm cut-off
wheel. You can cut a cable about as fast as
you can push the grinder.

Aha, you guys include power tools in "hand
tools". Well, I suppose the are. In that case
yes, an angle grinder would do it but that
scenario is completely unrealistic in the wild.

But I think that you last point is the
important one. "A bike of this value". I live
about 500 mtrs from a subway station and
there are always a number of bicycles tied up
to posts in the area. Very noticeable they
are all old, dirty, grungy, things that no
body would want. Some aren't even locked.
I've yet to see a $3,000 carbon fiber racing
bike parked there :-)

Yeah, well - for a person those bikes can be
invaluable and for the reasonably handy guy
they can be put it very good condition as well.

But if you were to sell them you don't get
much, especially not compared to their "quality
of life" potential, it is a joke actually.
A haircut with dying for an old lady is more
expensive.

So the professional thief don't bring tools to
steal this kind of things, and the casual thief
doesn't carry any tools on his way back from
the bar friday night

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 07:05:57 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Aha, you guys include power tools in "hand
tools". Well, I suppose the are. In that case
yes, an angle grinder would do it but that
scenario is completely unrealistic in the wild.

Angle grinders used in bicycle thefts are quite common. Pick a video:
https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+angle+grinder+bicycle+lock

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Aha, you guys include power tools in "hand
tools". Well, I suppose the are. In that
case yes, an angle grinder would do it but
that scenario is completely unrealistic in
the wild.

Angle grinders used in bicycle thefts are
quite common.

Maybe in you guys' countries where there is
another bike culture and people ride really
expensive bikes as a sport or lifestyle.
Here there are *tons* of bikes everywhere, many
20-30 yo, and if you stole one and fixed and
cleaned it really nice you could sell it online
for ~1000 SEK. While I consider that price
a joke (far too low) it is reality nonetheless.
To bring an angle grinder, with power from
a pickup, and then throw it back up, and
proceed to the next bike... I just don't see
anyone doing that as a profitable venture.
Of course there are expensive bikes here as
well but people keep them - well, at least
I never see 'em anywhere in the racks or by the
streets...

1000 SEK ~= $119 | £88 | €100

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 07:05:57 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. wrote:

Given that many of the commercial "bicycle
locks" can be rather easily cut with hand
tools

This cannot in reasonable time unless there
is a hand tool and/or method I'm unfamiliar
with. There is something with the plastic
that prevents you from getting the power
down to the wire. If you keep at it, you'll
succeed eventually, of course, but no thief
will do that out in the open to get a bike
of this (monetary) value.

Try a 4 inch angle grinder with a 1mm cut-off
wheel. You can cut a cable about as fast as
you can push the grinder.

Aha, you guys include power tools in "hand
tools". Well, I suppose the are. In that case
yes, an angle grinder would do it but that
scenario is completely unrealistic in the wild.

They make battery operated tools and a battery operated angle grinder
cost $150 or less, if I'm not mistaken.

Obviously it isn't practical to buy a $150 dollar tool to steal a $50
dollar bicycle but what about a Trek ALR 5, low end Trek aluminum
frame road bike. Lists at $1,680. With an overhead of $150 that means
what one might say is a $1,500 profit.

But I think that you last point is the
important one. "A bike of this value". I live
about 500 mtrs from a subway station and
there are always a number of bicycles tied up
to posts in the area. Very noticeable they
are all old, dirty, grungy, things that no
body would want. Some aren't even locked.
I've yet to see a $3,000 carbon fiber racing
bike parked there :-)

Yeah, well - for a person those bikes can be
invaluable and for the reasonably handy guy
they can be put it very good condition as well.

But if you were to sell them you don't get
much, especially not compared to their "quality
of life" potential, it is a joke actually.
A haircut with dying for an old lady is more
expensive.

So the professional thief don't bring tools to
steal this kind of things, and the casual thief
doesn't carry any tools on his way back from
the bar friday night

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 08:54:42 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Aha, you guys include power tools in "hand
tools". Well, I suppose the are. In that
case yes, an angle grinder would do it but
that scenario is completely unrealistic in
the wild.

Angle grinders used in bicycle thefts are
quite common.

Maybe in you guys' countries where there is
another bike culture and people ride really
expensive bikes as a sport or lifestyle.
Here there are *tons* of bikes everywhere, many
20-30 yo, and if you stole one and fixed and
cleaned it really nice you could sell it online
for ~1000 SEK. While I consider that price
a joke (far too low) it is reality nonetheless.
To bring an angle grinder, with power from
a pickup, and then throw it back up, and
proceed to the next bike... I just don't see
anyone doing that as a profitable venture.
Of course there are expensive bikes here as
well but people keep them - well, at least
I never see 'em anywhere in the racks or by the
streets...

1000 SEK ~= $119 | £88 | €100

Well, economics certainly must play a part in the equation but I read
that over 10,000 bikes were stolen in Stockholm last year.
http://www.nordstjernan.com/news/sweden/5452/
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. wrote:

Well, economics certainly must play a part in
the equation but I read that over 10,000
bikes were stolen in Stockholm last year.

Well, of course! Bikes get stolen all the time.
I don't live in Stockholm but it happens here
as well, for sure, every day.

Now this is getting too confusing... Let's try
to sort it out.

Yes, it is possible to cut the 12 mm cable
lock. No, with a "$50 bike" typically that
won't happen. Yes, without a lock altogether
the same bike will be stolen, or claimed by the
street life rather, in but a few days time.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On 12/4/2017 11:54 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:

snip

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M18-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-4-1-2-in-Cordless-Cut-Off-Grinder-Tool-Only-2680-20/202196580

Any bicycle thief worth their salt owns a battery powered angle grinder.

On 12/4/2017 10:05 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:

snip

Aha, you guys include power tools in "hand
tools". Well, I suppose the are. In that case
yes, an angle grinder would do it but that
scenario is completely unrealistic in the wild.

The discerning bicycle thief owns a Bosch GWS 10.8-76 V-EC Professional
Cordless 3" Angle Grinder. Not sold in the U.S. but readily purchased on
eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/231954428094

On 12/4/2017 11:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 19:13:04 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/4/2017 6:48 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 15:31:49 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/4/2017 3:10 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
sms wrote:

I was comparing a lock with the same diameter
cable, name brand, this one with 5 keys
instead of 3 keys.

5 keys? You US people sure loose a lot of
keys But yes, it seems like
a fair comparison.

It would seem the BBB-41 is the unique
identifier used internally as well when they
refer to the product.

How much do you pay for a 12 mm wire bike lock
at AMuzi's, if it isn't a secret?


It's just a retail $19.95 lock. 2-meter cable lock x 12mm is
a commodity.

Goodness! Do these locks have an actual 1/2" steel cable?
(I had always taken that claim as advertising :-)

technically 0.47 inches
http://www.onguardlock.com/store/doberman-8031
(the 10mm model sells better)

Out of curiosity (I'm too cheap to buy one :-) is that a 12mm steel
cable? Or 12mm over the steel cable and the plastic casing?


but then again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ8FZnMYkyY
solid hardened steel U-lock, 9 seconds.

I use a 4 inch angle grinder a great deal in metal working and that
guy doesn't seem to be working very hard. Using a 1mm cut-off wheel
that U lock should be cut even quicker.

actual security cam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dz0Za5-wOM

But every time I see bicycle locks I remember a time I parked in front
of a hardware store on a main street in Phuket, Thailand and
inadvertently locked my keys in the pickup. I'm sort of peering in the
window trying to figure out what to do and a well dressed Thai guy
comes walking by. "What's the matter? Lock your keys in the car?" I
tell him yes and he tells me to wait a minute, runs into the hardware
shop, borrows a 18" flat steel ruler and comes back and pops the lock.
I thank the guy profusely and we both go on about our business. With
me speculating on how the Thai Guy got so skillful :-)


A woman of my acquaintance with a chronic alcohol problem
locked her keys in the car so often that I made a tool for
her model car and got quite adept over a few years' time.

In those pre-Inter Webs days that meant a walk[1] to the
library to look at car manuals showing door and lock
assembly. Not a difficult problem once you see the mechanism.

[1]can't bring my bicycle into the library.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971