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Help! Stuck Schlumpf Shifter Button



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 1st 08, 03:42 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
lunicycle
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Default Help! Stuck Schlumpf Shifter Button


dang Ken, the seatpost/frame problem and now this, that has gotta be
frustrating.

I was daydreaming about some long distance tours this morning - I
wouldn't want to have glitches like this out in the middle of nowhere.


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  #12  
Old November 1st 08, 08:40 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
Klaas Bil
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Default Help! Stuck Schlumpf Shifter Button


GizmoDuck;1122575 wrote:
50 Nm

But who on earth carries a torque lever in their toolkit anyway?

I want to throw the damn thing out the window. Just spent the last
hour trying to hold the shfit shaft and unscrew the stuck button, now I
think I've damaged the threads on it. Guni's suck!


Depressing indeed. Geared unicycles may suck but they're faster. Maybe
that sucks too...

But 50 Nm?? Maybe that's for the crank fixing screw? Sounds like way
too much for the screw to fix the button. If you did that to yours... no
wonder you damaged it!


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  #13  
Old November 1st 08, 10:15 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
GizmoDuck
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Default Help! Stuck Schlumpf Shifter Button


Klaas Bil;1122676 wrote:
Depressing indeed. Geared unicycles may suck but they're faster. Maybe
that sucks too...

But 50 Nm?? Maybe that's for the crank fixing screw? Sounds like way
too much for the screw to fix the button. If you did that to yours... no
wonder you damaged it!




Last week I thought GUni's were great. Today I think they suck. Maybe
next week I'll give you a balanced opinion.

Now I have no idea how much 50Nm is. That's what was scribbled on the
Schlumpf manual. I have no idea who wrote it in there. It's either
Florian or the UDC boys.

I tried Spencers double nut technique today. The shaft takes 5mm nuts.
Unfortunately it didn't work.

The next option is to take it to the bike shop on Monday to take my
crank off (I brought the wrong crank extractor with me- non-ISIS).
Hopefully that will give a bit more leveraget to work with.

If that doesn't work, I think I'll break the button so that the dome is
off. I won't be able to shift whilst riding, but at least I can get in
there and tighten the loose crank, which is what is stopping me riding
at the moment.


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  #14  
Old November 1st 08, 11:03 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
Klaas Bil
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Default Help! Stuck Schlumpf Shifter Button


GizmoDuck;1122694 wrote:
Last week I thought GUni's were great. Today I think they suck. Maybe
next week I'll give you a balanced opinion.


Which is what we expect from a unicyclist


GizmoDuck;1122694 wrote:
Now I have no idea how much 50Nm is. That's what was scribbled on the
Schlumpf manual. I have no idea who wrote it in there. It's either
Florian or the UDC boys.


The unit of torque Nm is the product of force expressed in Newton and
the length (between the pivot point and where the force is exerted)
expressed in metres. 50 Newton is about the weight of a mass of 5
kilograms. So that force exerted on an arm of 1 m is 50 Nm. If you grip
your allen key 10 cm from where it turns (which is quite much for a 2.5
mm size key), you would have to pull the 10-fold of that, i.e. 50 kg. I
guess that's almost your own weight (Ken). If your allen key is shorter,
you have to pull with an even bigger force to get at 50 Nm. Go figu
50 Nm is a lot of torque for such a tiny screw!


GizmoDuck;1122694 wrote:
The next option is to take it to the bike shop on Monday to take my
crank off (I brought the wrong crank extractor with me- non-ISIS).


But I thought the issue with accessing the crank screw was that the
button is in the way, not the type of extractor?

Edit: careful with breaking the button off its stem on purpose. Don't
damage the shifter shaft or you're worse off.


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  #15  
Old November 1st 08, 12:15 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
TonyMelton
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Default Help! Stuck Schlumpf Shifter Button


GizmoDuck;1122575 wrote:
50 Nm

I want to throw the damn thing out the window. Just spent the last
hour trying to hold the shfit shaft and unscrew the stuck button, now I
think I've damaged the threads on it. Guni's suck!




Ken, I just read the KH-Schlumpf hub manual, and nowhere in it does it
state that the 2.5mm allen grub screw should be tightened to 50Nm!
Florian told me when he gave me the hub that the -_crank_bolts__-should
be tightened very tight, and in fact 50Nm was the torque he recommended.
Maybe this is what you're getting confused with.

I feel your pain - I spent hours and hours trying to fix the side to
side play inherent in my road Schlumpf hub to no avail. It just about
drove me nuts!


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  #16  
Old November 1st 08, 12:20 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
TonyMelton
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Default Help! Stuck Schlumpf Shifter Button


Oh yes, Florian sells pre-calibrated torque screwdrivers as an
accessory. From personal experience I can highly recommend these to
owners of the Schlumpf road hub. They make tightening up the 1.5mm grub
screw to the required torque so that the buttons don't fall off oh so
easy. I don't know if they are so essential for the newer KH-Schlumpf
though, as I've never had to mount the buttons of this hub.


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  #17  
Old November 1st 08, 01:39 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
GizmoDuck
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Default Help! Stuck Schlumpf Shifter Button


TonyMelton;1122707 wrote:
Ken, I just read the KH-Schlumpf hub manual, and nowhere in it does it
state that the 2.5mm allen grub screw should be tightened to 50Nm!
Florian told me when he gave me the hub that the -_crank_bolts__-should
be tightened very tight, and in fact 50Nm was the torque he recommended.
Maybe this is what you're getting confused with.

I feel your pain - I spent hours and hours trying to fix the side to
side play inherent in my road Schlumpf hub to no avail. It just about
drove me nuts!




Oh ok, I read it in the manual but never took any notice of it, because
I don't have a torque wrench anyway. It could say 1000Nm for all the
difference it makes.

Have you tightened your torque lever? I had some play with the road
hub and it went once I tigheted the torque lever. Also, your frame does
flex a bit...you could try sticking a brake booster on there to stiffen
things up.


--
GizmoDuck

The Induni Unicycle Tour 2009. Unicycle Tour of India. Email me for
details. www.induni.adventureunicyclist.com
The Uninam Tour 2008.....Hanoi to Saigon!!! www.uninam.net
The SINZ Unicycle Tour 2007....South Island, New Zealand
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  #18  
Old November 1st 08, 02:51 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
semach.the.monkey
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Default Help! Stuck Schlumpf Shifter Button


GizmoDuck;1122694 wrote:

Now I have no idea how much 50Nm is. That's what was scribbled on the
Schlumpf manual. I have no idea who wrote it in there. It's either
Florian or the UDC boys.

I tried Spencers double nut technique today. The shaft takes 5mm nuts.
Unfortunately it didn't work.




What didn't work about it? Were you able to get a solid grip on the
two nuts to tighten them against each other? Once they're tight, you
should be able to use a socket to hold the shaft.

How did you damage the thread? Were you trying to grip it with pliers
or something?

Also, as has been pointed out, 50Nm is the torque needed for the crank
bolts. This equates to pushing really really hard on a socket T-bar
(not a ratchet - you'll destroy it) and giving it as much welly as you
can. The manual for the new KH hub doesn't specify the torque needed
for the grub screw, but the original road hub needed 1.1Nm - or about
finger tight plus 1/4 turn for good measure.

STM


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  #19  
Old November 2nd 08, 01:36 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
TonyMelton
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Default Help! Stuck Schlumpf Shifter Button


GizmoDuck;1122722 wrote:

Have you tightened your torque lever? I had some play with the road
hub and it went once I tigheted the torque lever. Also, your frame does
flex a bit...you could try sticking a brake booster on there to stiffen
things up.




I've got a brake booster on my Maguras already. The play that I'm
talking about feels like the bearings are loose on the axle. Even with
the optimum number of spacers on the axle (as adjusted by Florian
Schlumpf himself) there is still some play. Tightening the torque arm
won't fix it. However it doesn't seem to matter too much and it isn't
noticable (or distinguishable from the crank slop) when riding. I tried
the same hold-the-frame-steady-and-wiggle-side-to-side test on a couple
of other road schlumpf hubs at UNICON and they all had some side to side
play. My conclusion is that this play cannot be eliminated and
originates from the lack of lateral stiffness of the bearings
themselves.


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  #20  
Old November 2nd 08, 11:40 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
peter.bier
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Default Help! Stuck Schlumpf Shifter Button


On the subject of 50 Nm torque for tightening the crank bolts:

I believe your manual had the figure hand written in by Florian (it
wasn't us folk at UDC). I took my hub in to a bike shop to get the
cranks tightened and they looked at me like I was crazy when I requested
a 50Nm torque on each crank. It turns out that when dealing with bikes
the highest they use is generally 20-25Nm. We managed to get one crank
to 50Nm but it was a behemoth of an effort and the other one was harder
to tighten and only got to 30Nm.

The interesting thing was that despite them being on ridiculously
tightly they still need tightening up after the first few rides. I
didn't bother taking the uni back to the bike shop but I did tighten
them as hard as I possibly could without a torque wrench. For good
measure I repeated the process after a few more rides.

I would recommend all new KH/Schlumpf owners to check your crank
tightness fairly regularly, at least for the first wee while.


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