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Why People Mountain Bike: "the adventure of the ride is what gets my juices flowing"



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 31st 06, 02:02 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike
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Default Why People Mountain Bike: "the adventure of the ride is what gets my juices flowing"


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 30 May 2006 13:24:43 -0400, "S Curtiss"
wrote:

first off lets do what mike never does and snip some of the crap Not
that he makes it easy cutting into the middle of sentances to post his
comments. Apologies for not colour coding it for those using an email
browser. I come in through cyclingforums because of the added security.
Jeesh.

davebee Wrote:


MV has not based his science on anything officially recognised and his
acusations that everything that goes against his "facts" is controlled
by a mountainbikers conspiracy is bizarre to say the very least.
Surprisingly, underneath all the crap and the egomania and the
accusations I think Vandeman makes a reasonably valid point to the
extent that wilderness should be protected.



MV Wrote:

And wildlife. You forgot that part.

wilderness, wildlife... whats the diffence?

I'm glad you admit not knowing the difference.

The wilderness implies the
area and everything contained therin.

Right, but not all habitat is wilderness. DUH!


I'm glad you admit KNOWING the difference... finally. Now you can stop
treating all areas as if they are designated wilderness in your
statements.

I have never done so. I rarely talk about wilderness, because it's
subjective. The topic is HABITAT. DUH![/color]
Funny how now you disown your own writings which are inclusive of
terminology for wilderness, habitat and wildlife. You claim to want "human
free habitat" in every signature, which would begin with "wilderness"
designations. You conveniently change terminology to fit your defense.
Maybe, if you applied some consistency of terminology, you would also earn
some credibility.

You can also, since you acknowledge "not all habitat is wilderness", stop
misrepresenting the legal and acceptable use of trail systems by
non-hikers.
You can also, since you acknowledge "not all habitat is wilderness", stop
citing your references to wilderness habitat when referring to access for
off-road cycling in non-wilderness areas.


Can anyone decipher what this idiot is trying to say?


Funny - we've been asking that about your posts for around 10-12 years. So
far, no other person of science or significance has answered in the
affirmative.

Your obtuseness requires that
everybody spells things out to you as if you are a 2 year old child
with mental health problems. And then you pounce ont he omission of a
single word or a slightly inadequate description. At least FOR THE MOST
PART people try to explain things for you without resorting to personal
insults.

davebee Wrote:
you also have to permit recreation away from developed urban areas.

MV Wrote:
This I agree with, howevert here is absolutely no reason to allow
BIKES
off-road. THEY aren't alive, and don't need recreation. Are you really
THAT dense?


There is no need to be rude. The bicycle of course is a tool for people
to use to aid their enjoyment of the outside. because you fail to grasp
the idea perhaps you should consider this. I assume when you go walking
you wear a pair of hiking boots. Your boots are comparable to my bike,
given so much as they are a tool to aid your enjoyment. Likewise your
boots do not require recreation.

Okay, not tell me WHY you can't recreate without bring your bike onto
tre trail? Are you incapable of walking? In other words, Why should we
allow bikes off-road? Give me one good reason why I or any land
manager should allow bikes off-road. (Hint: there aren't any!)

We've had this discussion (over and over and over...)


So when are you going to answer the question?????

For anyone who is objective and intelligent, I have answered it.... again.
See below for context.

"Apparently, your opinion even supercedes reality. Land managers across
the
country are working with cycling organizations to enhance cooperation
among
all user groups. The Bureau of Land Management has a national action plan
in
place just for the purpose. The BLM recognizes the benefits of off-road
cycling and your opinions of off-road cycling and the reasons given
supporting the benefits of off-road cycling are a non-issue.
It is simple. You try to close your eyes and cover your ears by placing
your
OPINION as a determining factor as what is valid. However, it has been
PROVEN to those who make the decisions that off-road cycling offers
benefits
of health, increased awareness of the importance of preservation,
cooperative maintenance, economic benefits and more.
Your OPINION as to the validity of these benefits is null. Your OPINION of
off-road cycling is null. All you have is your OPINION resting on a
carefully selected foundation of chosen information."
-----------


Still waiting! ...
===

For what - the Synanon space ships to retrieve you back to their equivalent
of a "rubber room"?


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  #12  
Old May 31st 06, 04:42 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike
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Default Why People Mountain Bike: "the adventure of the ride is what gets my juices flowing"

I got a true taste of why people mountain bike today, by NOT mountain
biking. Its been raining all week, so I did as I've always done - either
not ride or ride on the road. I did this long before I read any of
Vandeman's nonsense.

Road riding is like flying - hours of boredom occasionally interrupted by
moments of sheer terror. Still, I needed some exercise. To break up the
monotony a bit, I took a different route. There was a lot more traffic
than I anticipated. I was hugging the shoulder as much as possible, but
still had two SUVs got way too close. Right after one near-miss, a
passenger in a truck yelled "are you having fun"? Of course I wasn't.

I didn't miss the irony of having near-misses with 3,000 pound vehicles
while engaging in something for the purpose of "improving my health". I'll
be so glad when the fireroads dry out at least. They don't have the joy of
singletrack, but its a lot better than this. I may have gotten some
scrapes from mountain biking over the years, but I don't feel the need to
have an up-to-date will just because of it.

--
-BB-
To e-mail me, unmunge my address
  #13  
Old June 1st 06, 12:04 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike
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Default Why People Mountain Bike: "the adventure of the ride is what gets my juices flowing"

On Wed, 31 May 2006 18:54:52 GMT, Mike Vandeman wrote:

So it's okay to get hurt mountain biking, but not on the road?


Its not a matter of just getting hurt. The morning after my post, I
learned that a couple of cyclists had been struck by a car and killed on a
similar highway not too far from my house. It's haunting to see the
picture of the police standing on a road with which I'm familiar, and bits
of bicycle scattered around:

http://www.koin.com/storyimages/hwy47_053106.jpg

It's a shocking, tragic reminder of the danger of what I was doing. And
far too common. Yeah, I'll take off-road biffs over that any day.

--
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To e-mail me, unmunge my address
  #14  
Old June 1st 06, 02:32 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike
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Default Why People Mountain Bike: "the adventure of the ride is whatgets my juices flowing"

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2006 16:37:35 -0700, cc wrote:



I suggest that it's at least 5 -10 times as harmful. That's certainly
significant. That's based on relative distance travelled.



http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


So, how far and how many times a week does the average hiker travel and
how far and how many times a week does a mountain biker travel? Also,
post where you secured this information...
  #15  
Old June 1st 06, 08:12 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike
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Default Why People Mountain Bike: "the adventure of the ride is what gets my juices flowing"

On Wed, 31 May 2006 21:32:34 -0400, ChainSmoker
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2006 16:37:35 -0700, cc wrote:



I suggest that it's at least 5 -10 times as harmful. That's certainly
significant. That's based on relative distance travelled.



http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


So, how far and how many times a week does the average hiker travel and
how far and how many times a week does a mountain biker travel? Also,
post where you secured this information...


You tell me. Do your homework.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #16  
Old June 1st 06, 08:46 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike
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Default Why People Mountain Bike: "the adventure of the ride is whatgets my juices flowing"

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2006 21:32:34 -0400, ChainSmoker
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2006 16:37:35 -0700, cc wrote:
I suggest that it's at least 5 -10 times as harmful. That's certainly
significant. That's based on relative distance travelled.

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

So, how far and how many times a week does the average hiker travel and
how far and how many times a week does a mountain biker travel? Also,
post where you secured this information...


You tell me. Do your homework.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


Ok. I will bite. Searching the newsgroups and reading hiker comments the
average hike is 10 miles with longer hikes up to 30 miles.
  #17  
Old June 2nd 06, 02:40 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike
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Default Why People Mountain Bike: "the adventure of the ride is whatgets my juices flowing"

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 15:46:17 -0400, ChainSmoker
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2006 21:32:34 -0400, ChainSmoker
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2006 16:37:35 -0700, cc wrote:
I suggest that it's at least 5 -10 times as harmful. That's certainly
significant. That's based on relative distance travelled.

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
So, how far and how many times a week does the average hiker travel and
how far and how many times a week does a mountain biker travel? Also,
post where you secured this information...
You tell me. Do your homework.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Ok. I will bite. Searching the newsgroups and reading hiker comments the
average hike is 10 miles with longer hikes up to 30 miles.


BS. But even if we accept your figures, I studies mountain biking ride
announcements. They averaged 27 miles & went from 8 to 112 miles (in a
single day). So even if we accept your bogus figures, mountain bikers
travel 3 times as far as hikers, and thus have at least 3 times the
impacts.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


Using the above data we both have acquired, and following your
determination that mountain biking has 3 time the impact of hiking
because mountain bikers travel 3 time the distance of hikers:

We of course need therein to consider the number of hikers vs the number
of mountain bikers.

There are 55 million hikers and 10 million mountain bikers. Applying our
collective assumptions which includes similar number of times hikers and
bikers get to venture out;

The overall impact of hiking is much greater since there are a 5 to 1
ratio of hikers to bikers.


  #18  
Old June 2nd 06, 07:57 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike
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Default Why People Mountain Bike: "the adventure of the ride is what gets my juices flowing"

On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:40:37 -0400, ChainSmoker
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 15:46:17 -0400, ChainSmoker
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2006 21:32:34 -0400, ChainSmoker
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2006 16:37:35 -0700, cc wrote:
I suggest that it's at least 5 -10 times as harmful. That's certainly
significant. That's based on relative distance travelled.

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
So, how far and how many times a week does the average hiker travel and
how far and how many times a week does a mountain biker travel? Also,
post where you secured this information...
You tell me. Do your homework.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
Ok. I will bite. Searching the newsgroups and reading hiker comments the
average hike is 10 miles with longer hikes up to 30 miles.


BS. But even if we accept your figures, I studies mountain biking ride
announcements. They averaged 27 miles & went from 8 to 112 miles (in a
single day). So even if we accept your bogus figures, mountain bikers
travel 3 times as far as hikers, and thus have at least 3 times the
impacts.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


Using the above data we both have acquired, and following your
determination that mountain biking has 3 time the impact of hiking
because mountain bikers travel 3 time the distance of hikers:

We of course need therein to consider the number of hikers vs the number
of mountain bikers.

There are 55 million hikers and 10 million mountain bikers. Applying our
collective assumptions which includes similar number of times hikers and
bikers get to venture out;

The overall impact of hiking is much greater since there are a 5 to 1
ratio of hikers to bikers.


Irrelevant. Ethics applies to individuals, not crowds. If you can
reduce your impact by hiking rather than mountain biking, you SHOULD.
Not that you know anything about ethics.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #19  
Old June 2nd 06, 10:52 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike
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Posts: n/a
Default Why People Mountain Bike: "the adventure of the ride is whatgets my juices flowing"

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:40:37 -0400, ChainSmoker
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 15:46:17 -0400, ChainSmoker
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2006 21:32:34 -0400, ChainSmoker
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2006 16:37:35 -0700, cc wrote:
I suggest that it's at least 5 -10 times as harmful. That's certainly
significant. That's based on relative distance travelled.

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
So, how far and how many times a week does the average hiker travel and
how far and how many times a week does a mountain biker travel? Also,
post where you secured this information...
You tell me. Do your homework.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
Ok. I will bite. Searching the newsgroups and reading hiker comments the
average hike is 10 miles with longer hikes up to 30 miles.
BS. But even if we accept your figures, I studies mountain biking ride
announcements. They averaged 27 miles & went from 8 to 112 miles (in a
single day). So even if we accept your bogus figures, mountain bikers
travel 3 times as far as hikers, and thus have at least 3 times the
impacts.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Using the above data we both have acquired, and following your
determination that mountain biking has 3 time the impact of hiking
because mountain bikers travel 3 time the distance of hikers:

We of course need therein to consider the number of hikers vs the number
of mountain bikers.

There are 55 million hikers and 10 million mountain bikers. Applying our
collective assumptions which includes similar number of times hikers and
bikers get to venture out;

The overall impact of hiking is much greater since there are a 5 to 1
ratio of hikers to bikers.


Irrelevant. Ethics applies to individuals, not crowds. If you can
reduce your impact by hiking rather than mountain biking, you SHOULD.
Not that you know anything about ethics.


Mike, you can't make an argument based on the numbers of miles traveled
per biker and then reject one based on how many hikers there are
compared to bikers. You make no sense!

Go back to studying eating habits.
  #20  
Old June 2nd 06, 10:57 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike
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Posts: n/a
Default Why People Mountain Bike: "the adventure of the ride is whatgets my juices flowing"

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:40:37 -0400, ChainSmoker
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 15:46:17 -0400, ChainSmoker
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2006 21:32:34 -0400, ChainSmoker
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2006 16:37:35 -0700, cc wrote:
I suggest that it's at least 5 -10 times as harmful. That's certainly
significant. That's based on relative distance travelled.

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
So, how far and how many times a week does the average hiker travel and
how far and how many times a week does a mountain biker travel? Also,
post where you secured this information...
You tell me. Do your homework.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
Ok. I will bite. Searching the newsgroups and reading hiker comments the
average hike is 10 miles with longer hikes up to 30 miles.
BS. But even if we accept your figures, I studies mountain biking ride
announcements. They averaged 27 miles & went from 8 to 112 miles (in a
single day). So even if we accept your bogus figures, mountain bikers
travel 3 times as far as hikers, and thus have at least 3 times the
impacts.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Using the above data we both have acquired, and following your
determination that mountain biking has 3 time the impact of hiking
because mountain bikers travel 3 time the distance of hikers:

We of course need therein to consider the number of hikers vs the number
of mountain bikers.

There are 55 million hikers and 10 million mountain bikers. Applying our
collective assumptions which includes similar number of times hikers and
bikers get to venture out;

The overall impact of hiking is much greater since there are a 5 to 1
ratio of hikers to bikers.


Irrelevant. Ethics applies to individuals, not crowds. If you can
reduce your impact by hiking rather than mountain biking, you SHOULD.
Not that you know anything about ethics.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande



Ethics are irrelevant to applicability of a group's fundamental moral
code. I am one of the 55 million hikers and one of the 10 million
bikers, thus our evaluation above indicates I should mountain bike more
and hike less to reduce overall impact.
 




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