Decent bicycle light cost

On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:26:24 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2017 9:09 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 3:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big
hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light.

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.

We use both. We use dynamo lights when appropriate, and battery powered
lights when appropriate.

Why do you assume that dynamo users do differently?

You said "Most people that tout the suitability of dynamo lights have
not experienced the level of illumination and safety that are provided
by a good battery light." That's your snarky way of saying "Dynamo users
don't know any better."

I've got a box containing probably 10 different battery lights -
all-in-one, separate battery pack, headlamp, halogen, LED - and I've
given other battery lights to other people. I'm positive some of them
meet your definition of "good," and I can use them any time I care to.
But I, like many others, find that modern dynamo lights don't need any
supplement.

--
- Frank Krygowski

And many others find that a dynamo light has to supplemented with a battery light. It's different equipment for different people with different needs.

Cheers

On 3/10/2017 12:11 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 22:26:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/9/2017 9:09 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 3:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big
hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light.

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.

We use both. We use dynamo lights when appropriate, and battery powered
lights when appropriate.

Why do you assume that dynamo users do differently?

You said "Most people that tout the suitability of dynamo lights have
not experienced the level of illumination and safety that are provided
by a good battery light." That's your snarky way of saying "Dynamo users
don't know any better."

I've got a box containing probably 10 different battery lights -
all-in-one, separate battery pack, headlamp, halogen, LED - and I've
given other battery lights to other people. I'm positive some of them
meet your definition of "good," and I can use them any time I care to.
But I, like many others, find that modern dynamo lights don't need any
supplement.

Unfortunately bicyclists are all equipped with rather anemic lights so
all the arguing and bragging about "MY LIGHT" is very much a matter of
the old sand box argument about who's toys are better.

For those who are truly serious about having decent battery powered
lighting See:
http://argoasecurity.com/index.php?r...product_id=176

Not a miserable little light with power measured in hundreds or
thousands this is a truly superior lamp with 12-Million Candlepower.

--
Cheers,

John B.


Light's OK, but that MA2 is beautiful.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/10/2017 1:11 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 22:26:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/9/2017 9:09 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 3:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big
hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light.

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.

We use both. We use dynamo lights when appropriate, and battery powered
lights when appropriate.

Why do you assume that dynamo users do differently?

You said "Most people that tout the suitability of dynamo lights have
not experienced the level of illumination and safety that are provided
by a good battery light." That's your snarky way of saying "Dynamo users
don't know any better."

I've got a box containing probably 10 different battery lights -
all-in-one, separate battery pack, headlamp, halogen, LED - and I've
given other battery lights to other people. I'm positive some of them
meet your definition of "good," and I can use them any time I care to.
But I, like many others, find that modern dynamo lights don't need any
supplement.

Unfortunately bicyclists are all equipped with rather anemic lights so
all the arguing and bragging about "MY LIGHT" is very much a matter of
the old sand box argument about who's toys are better.

For those who are truly serious about having decent battery powered
lighting See:
http://argoasecurity.com/index.php?r...product_id=176

Not a miserable little light with power measured in hundreds or
thousands this is a truly superior lamp with 12-Million Candlepower.

Darn. Now nothing less bright can qualify as "safe enough." At least,
according to some.



--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 7:39:46 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/10/2017 1:11 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 22:26:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/9/2017 9:09 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 3:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big
hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light.

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.

We use both. We use dynamo lights when appropriate, and battery powered
lights when appropriate.

Why do you assume that dynamo users do differently?

You said "Most people that tout the suitability of dynamo lights have
not experienced the level of illumination and safety that are provided
by a good battery light." That's your snarky way of saying "Dynamo users
don't know any better."

I've got a box containing probably 10 different battery lights -
all-in-one, separate battery pack, headlamp, halogen, LED - and I've
given other battery lights to other people. I'm positive some of them
meet your definition of "good," and I can use them any time I care to.
But I, like many others, find that modern dynamo lights don't need any
supplement.

Unfortunately bicyclists are all equipped with rather anemic lights so
all the arguing and bragging about "MY LIGHT" is very much a matter of
the old sand box argument about who's toys are better.

For those who are truly serious about having decent battery powered
lighting See:
http://argoasecurity.com/index.php?r...product_id=176

Not a miserable little light with power measured in hundreds or
thousands this is a truly superior lamp with 12-Million Candlepower.

Darn. Now nothing less bright can qualify as "safe enough." At least,
according to some.



--
- Frank Krygowski

Anything less than 10,000 candlepower is too dim.

On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 7:39:46 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/10/2017 1:11 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 22:26:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/9/2017 9:09 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 3:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big
hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light..

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.

We use both. We use dynamo lights when appropriate, and battery powered
lights when appropriate.

Why do you assume that dynamo users do differently?

You said "Most people that tout the suitability of dynamo lights have
not experienced the level of illumination and safety that are provided
by a good battery light." That's your snarky way of saying "Dynamo users
don't know any better."

I've got a box containing probably 10 different battery lights -
all-in-one, separate battery pack, headlamp, halogen, LED - and I've
given other battery lights to other people. I'm positive some of them
meet your definition of "good," and I can use them any time I care to.
But I, like many others, find that modern dynamo lights don't need any
supplement.

Unfortunately bicyclists are all equipped with rather anemic lights so
all the arguing and bragging about "MY LIGHT" is very much a matter of
the old sand box argument about who's toys are better.

For those who are truly serious about having decent battery powered
lighting See:
http://argoasecurity.com/index.php?r...product_id=176

Not a miserable little light with power measured in hundreds or
thousands this is a truly superior lamp with 12-Million Candlepower.

Darn. Now nothing less bright can qualify as "safe enough." At least,
according to some.



--
- Frank Krygowski

Anything less than 10,000 candlepower is too dim.

The Oculus runs great in hybrid mode. With both the battery installed, and a generator to 5VDC adapter plugged into the charging adapter, the light stays lit almost endless at the medium setting, which is already brighter to the eye than most of the pothole spotter single LED lights out there.
Candlepower doesn't have a direct translation to Lumens.
"Lumens" is a measure of how much light a lamp produces in all directions. "Candlepower" is the intensity of light at the center of a spotlight beam when measured in one direction. Thus, strictly speaking, you cannot directly convert lumens to candlepower.
Candlepower more directly translates to Lux at a 90 degree angle of incidence, meaning straight on. So it can't say what a light's overall brightness is, only the maximum. Thus Candlepower is a useless measurement to determine a light's usable visibility, only how much of your peripheral vision it will take away.

On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 11:04:39 PM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light.

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Yes, Franki-boy, Scharfie's family may use dynamo lamps. That doesn't stop him telling the truth that it is easy to find a battery lamp that offers higher illumination. Where the **** were you educated if you cannot hold two related truths in mind at the same time. Who was foolish as to let you teach young minds? A double handful of people want to know.

Andre Jute
Loves reason so much, he'll even defend Scharfie

PS I use both dynamo and battery lamps. Dynamo lamps are more convenient. Battery lamps can be either less or more illuminating.

Chainreactioncyles.com in Belfast offers excellent prices, worldwide free delivery, and 365 day returns. I've dealt with them for years, and if they did more in my line (touring bikes) they would be my only supplier. Generally they stock the best stuff, so I don't have much experience returning gear but I have actually returned stuff to them on two occasions, once because I ordered the wrong component, once because a component broke (actually, after a phone call they sent me something better and didn't want the broken part back).

With regard to the usual mouth foaming idiots on the board predictably whimpering that "I paid the full price and when it broke on the second day I was too wimpish to take it back for a refund," screw them. I expect the LBS to let me take stuff away for at least 24 hours to test it, and a mail-order house that asks me just once to pay return postage doesn't get my trade again. It is anyway standard for good mail order houses to offer full no-questions-asked refunds (I always tell them why I return stuff, so they know to stop stocking inferior gear, but that's a voluntary effort).

Specifically with regard to lamps, rear lamps are easy. A good rear battery lamp, though pricey, is the Cateye TL-LD-1100, if you can find one, for many years the best common rear lamp in the world. A good dynamo rear lamp is the Busch & Muller Line Plus, and it is, by German standards, cheap; you can't buy better for any money. But it doesn't have a blinking mode, so you need to add a flashing lamp, which is a nuisance. Both are pictured on my net pages.

A front lamp is more difficult to specify without making compromises. The B&M lamps are okay, adequate dynamo lamps, no blinky mode, and they're designed for the comfort of oncoming drivers, so their illumination on road signs or low flying branches is pitiful. I have several BUMM lamps and you takes your pick and takes your chances; I buy from places with good return policies. In battery front lamps, I use a torch with several modes, including flash; it works a treat, and I keep the mounting just tight enough to hold it in position near my thumb, turning the whole torch to warn stupid drivers coming from the front; I bought the torch on Gearbest.com for under a tenner delivered and it makes much more light from a modest sized lipo battery than any of my dynamo lamp though of course the beam isn't as well shaped as that out of a BUMM lamp.

If you're thinking of buying a BUMM dyno lamp, you willl get much less light from it under normal conditions than shown on Peter White's site. Their top normal battery lamp (not the offroad monster) is the same lamp I have in dyno version, and the battery version makes adequate light for fast night riding, as long as the battery lasts.

If you have to buy the dynamo as well, a SON dynamo costs four times as much as a Shimano dynamo and in some respects (for instance how soon it lights the lamp adequately) is not as good, but the SON will outlast the Shimano. I have both and consider the SON overpriced and overrated.

The big thing about dyno lamps is the convenience. But that's mainly theoretical, because European dyno lamps, which are generally the only ones you can get, are made under the impetus of the stupid German legislation and thus don't have blinky modes, which means you have to buy battery lamps front and rear to back them up anyway, with the attendant inconveniences.

Andre Jute

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 9:18:47 PM UTC, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
One ofthe things that I've noticed about decent bicycle lights whether internal battery, exteranl battery or dynamo is that for the average person the light is expensive. I bought my CygoLite Riover II light nearly ten years ago and I ONLY bought it becausethe bicycle shop gave me a money back guarantee if it did not meet my riding needs. Mountain Equipment Co-op (aka MEC) here in Canada also offers a moneyback guarantee if something doesn't meet the customers needs.

With a dynamo hub system that's pretty hard for a shop to do unless they offer the customer a loaner built up dynamo hub wheel. I KNOW thatthe hub dynamo light I tried otside a shop in another city about 50 kms from me did NOT match the brightness road illumination of my CygoLite Rover II light and especially at low speed.

My questions then are; #1. do you go to the expense of buying a bicycle light without having a money back guarantee if that light doesn't wrok for you the way you need it too? and #2. do any shops you use give such a guarantee if you want it and would they stand behind that gurantee?

Cheers

On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 22:17:10 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 1:11:36 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 22:26:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/9/2017 9:09 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 3:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big
hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light.

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.

We use both. We use dynamo lights when appropriate, and battery powered
lights when appropriate.

Why do you assume that dynamo users do differently?

You said "Most people that tout the suitability of dynamo lights have
not experienced the level of illumination and safety that are provided
by a good battery light." That's your snarky way of saying "Dynamo users
don't know any better."

I've got a box containing probably 10 different battery lights -
all-in-one, separate battery pack, headlamp, halogen, LED - and I've
given other battery lights to other people. I'm positive some of them
meet your definition of "good," and I can use them any time I care to.
But I, like many others, find that modern dynamo lights don't need any
supplement.

Unfortunately bicyclists are all equipped with rather anemic lights so
all the arguing and bragging about "MY LIGHT" is very much a matter of
the old sand box argument about who's toys are better.

For those who are truly serious about having decent battery powered
lighting See:
http://argoasecurity.com/index.php?r...product_id=176

Not a miserable little light with power measured in hundreds or
thousands this is a truly superior lamp with 12-Million Candlepower.

--
Cheers,

John B.

I wonder how long it takes to drain the battery? Not long I bet.

Cheers

Don't know. Don't care. My light is better then your light :-)

Isn't that what the ongoing discussion here centers on?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 07:52:34 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/10/2017 12:11 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 22:26:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/9/2017 9:09 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 3:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big
hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light.

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.

We use both. We use dynamo lights when appropriate, and battery powered
lights when appropriate.

Why do you assume that dynamo users do differently?

You said "Most people that tout the suitability of dynamo lights have
not experienced the level of illumination and safety that are provided
by a good battery light." That's your snarky way of saying "Dynamo users
don't know any better."

I've got a box containing probably 10 different battery lights -
all-in-one, separate battery pack, headlamp, halogen, LED - and I've
given other battery lights to other people. I'm positive some of them
meet your definition of "good," and I can use them any time I care to.
But I, like many others, find that modern dynamo lights don't need any
supplement.

Unfortunately bicyclists are all equipped with rather anemic lights so
all the arguing and bragging about "MY LIGHT" is very much a matter of
the old sand box argument about who's toys are better.

For those who are truly serious about having decent battery powered
lighting See:
http://argoasecurity.com/index.php?r...product_id=176

Not a miserable little light with power measured in hundreds or
thousands this is a truly superior lamp with 12-Million Candlepower.

--
Cheers,

John B.


Light's OK, but that MA2 is beautiful.

Heavy to carry if you want to shoot it more than a couple of minutes
:-)

But you missed the really cool stuff sold by that firm. Click on "Body
Armour and Self Defense".

Such things as a Net Shooter that fires a net to capture miscreants
and best of all a Gas Injection Knife " capable of injecting a frozen
burst of compressed gas approximately, the size of a basketball, at
800 psi nearly instantly with just a push of a button". Said to
"disable some of the world's largest mammals (predators) in a single
stab."

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 14:35:38 -0800 (PST), Barry Beams
wrote:

On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 7:39:46 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/10/2017 1:11 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 22:26:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/9/2017 9:09 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 3:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big
hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light.

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.

We use both. We use dynamo lights when appropriate, and battery powered
lights when appropriate.

Why do you assume that dynamo users do differently?

You said "Most people that tout the suitability of dynamo lights have
not experienced the level of illumination and safety that are provided
by a good battery light." That's your snarky way of saying "Dynamo users
don't know any better."

I've got a box containing probably 10 different battery lights -
all-in-one, separate battery pack, headlamp, halogen, LED - and I've
given other battery lights to other people. I'm positive some of them
meet your definition of "good," and I can use them any time I care to.
But I, like many others, find that modern dynamo lights don't need any
supplement.

Unfortunately bicyclists are all equipped with rather anemic lights so
all the arguing and bragging about "MY LIGHT" is very much a matter of
the old sand box argument about who's toys are better.

For those who are truly serious about having decent battery powered
lighting See:
http://argoasecurity.com/index.php?r...product_id=176

Not a miserable little light with power measured in hundreds or
thousands this is a truly superior lamp with 12-Million Candlepower.

Darn. Now nothing less bright can qualify as "safe enough." At least,
according to some.



--
- Frank Krygowski

Anything less than 10,000 candlepower is too dim.

The Oculus runs great in hybrid mode. With both the battery installed, and a generator to 5VDC adapter plugged into the charging adapter, the light stays lit almost endless at the medium setting, which is already brighter to the eye than most of the pothole spotter single LED lights out there.
Candlepower doesn't have a direct translation to Lumens.
"Lumens" is a measure of how much light a lamp produces in all directions. "Candlepower" is the intensity of light at the center of a spotlight beam when measured in one direction. Thus, strictly speaking, you cannot directly convert lumens to candlepower.
Candlepower more directly translates to Lux at a 90 degree angle of incidence, meaning straight on. So it can't say what a light's overall brightness is, only the maximum. Thus Candlepower is a useless measurement to determine a light's usable visibility, only how much of your peripheral vision it will take away.

Translation:
I don't sell really bright lights so instead I bad mouth them.

--
Cheers,

John B.