14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Thu, 11 May 2017 16:29:11 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/11/2017 4:00 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 9:27:29 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/10/2017 10:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 20:13:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 7:59 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 07:28:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote:



One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just
about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into
the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection.
That did the trick but does not work for a headset.


One thing that DOES work is the light or medium Loc Tite. Not the
stuff you need a torch to release. A drop on every part that might
otherwise ahake loos will even keep an old BSA or Norton from shedding
parts.

I'm a big believer in Loctite. Jobst wasn't, but I never understood why.

Probably as in most cases it isn't necessary.

As I recall, Jobst went further, saying something like "There is no
appropriate use for Loctite on a bicycle."

My fender and rack mounts staunchly disagree.

Was Jobst still around when Locktite Blue came out?

Loctite blue has been around for decades, so yes, he was certainly still
around. I believe he simply thought that if fasteners were tightened
correctly, no locking compound was necessary.

But IIRC, his bikes were rather naked. No fenders, no racks, only one
water bottle cage, no headlight, no dynamo. There really wasn't much to
come loose.
You saying the only loose screws were on the rider?

On Thu, 11 May 2017 12:27:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 10:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 20:13:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 7:59 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 07:28:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote:



One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just
about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into
the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection.
That did the trick but does not work for a headset.


One thing that DOES work is the light or medium Loc Tite. Not the
stuff you need a torch to release. A drop on every part that might
otherwise ahake loos will even keep an old BSA or Norton from shedding
parts.

I'm a big believer in Loctite. Jobst wasn't, but I never understood why.

Probably as in most cases it isn't necessary.

As I recall, Jobst went further, saying something like "There is no
appropriate use for Loctite on a bicycle."

My fender and rack mounts staunchly disagree.

Well, Jobst was a little dogmatic... even when proven wrong... but I
don't use loctite and my fender stays have never loosened. But I do
use socket headed bolts, which may make a bit of a difference in
tightening torque, i.e, the difference in "feel" between a one inch
diameter screwdriver handle and a 2.5 inch allen wrench.

But having said that I've never seen anyone use loctite on axle nuts
and they don't seem to fall off, at least not regularly :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 11 May 2017 15:18:36 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 May 2017 12:27:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 10:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 20:13:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 7:59 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 07:28:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote:



One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just
about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into
the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection.
That did the trick but does not work for a headset.


One thing that DOES work is the light or medium Loc Tite. Not the
stuff you need a torch to release. A drop on every part that might
otherwise ahake loos will even keep an old BSA or Norton from shedding
parts.

I'm a big believer in Loctite. Jobst wasn't, but I never understood why.

Probably as in most cases it isn't necessary.

As I recall, Jobst went further, saying something like "There is no
appropriate use for Loctite on a bicycle."

My fender and rack mounts staunchly disagree.
Jobst would rather drill and safety wire everything like on
aircraft, and tear his skin to shreds on the protruding wire ends???
Or did he actually approve of "prevailing torque" nuts - like
Nylocks???

Actually a properly done safety wiring has the sharp end "tucked in"
so you won't get cut. http://tinyurl.com/l4xu27v
: - )
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 5/11/2017 9:51 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2017 12:27:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 10:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 20:13:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 7:59 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 07:28:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote:



One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just
about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into
the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection.
That did the trick but does not work for a headset.


One thing that DOES work is the light or medium Loc Tite. Not the
stuff you need a torch to release. A drop on every part that might
otherwise ahake loos will even keep an old BSA or Norton from shedding
parts.

I'm a big believer in Loctite. Jobst wasn't, but I never understood why.

Probably as in most cases it isn't necessary.

As I recall, Jobst went further, saying something like "There is no
appropriate use for Loctite on a bicycle."

My fender and rack mounts staunchly disagree.

Well, Jobst was a little dogmatic... even when proven wrong... but I
don't use loctite and my fender stays have never loosened. But I do
use socket headed bolts, which may make a bit of a difference in
tightening torque, i.e, the difference in "feel" between a one inch
diameter screwdriver handle and a 2.5 inch allen wrench.

For me, fender mounting screws are the most common self-loosening
fastener, even though I use allen head screws. Loctite does fix it, but
on some bikes I haven't Loctited them yet, probably because "most
common" is still not terribly common.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Fri, 12 May 2017 14:53:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/11/2017 9:51 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2017 12:27:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 10:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 20:13:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 7:59 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 07:28:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote:



One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just
about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into
the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection.
That did the trick but does not work for a headset.


One thing that DOES work is the light or medium Loc Tite. Not the
stuff you need a torch to release. A drop on every part that might
otherwise ahake loos will even keep an old BSA or Norton from shedding
parts.

I'm a big believer in Loctite. Jobst wasn't, but I never understood why.

Probably as in most cases it isn't necessary.

As I recall, Jobst went further, saying something like "There is no
appropriate use for Loctite on a bicycle."

My fender and rack mounts staunchly disagree.

Well, Jobst was a little dogmatic... even when proven wrong... but I
don't use loctite and my fender stays have never loosened. But I do
use socket headed bolts, which may make a bit of a difference in
tightening torque, i.e, the difference in "feel" between a one inch
diameter screwdriver handle and a 2.5 inch allen wrench.

For me, fender mounting screws are the most common self-loosening
fastener, even though I use allen head screws. Loctite does fix it, but
on some bikes I haven't Loctited them yet, probably because "most
common" is still not terribly common.
NyLock nuts are a more elegant solution ---

On 5/12/2017 3:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 May 2017 14:53:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/11/2017 9:51 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2017 12:27:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 10:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 20:13:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 7:59 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 07:28:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote:



One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just
about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into
the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection.
That did the trick but does not work for a headset.


One thing that DOES work is the light or medium Loc Tite. Not the
stuff you need a torch to release. A drop on every part that might
otherwise ahake loos will even keep an old BSA or Norton from shedding
parts.

I'm a big believer in Loctite. Jobst wasn't, but I never understood why.

Probably as in most cases it isn't necessary.

As I recall, Jobst went further, saying something like "There is no
appropriate use for Loctite on a bicycle."

My fender and rack mounts staunchly disagree.

Well, Jobst was a little dogmatic... even when proven wrong... but I
don't use loctite and my fender stays have never loosened. But I do
use socket headed bolts, which may make a bit of a difference in
tightening torque, i.e, the difference in "feel" between a one inch
diameter screwdriver handle and a 2.5 inch allen wrench.

For me, fender mounting screws are the most common self-loosening
fastener, even though I use allen head screws. Loctite does fix it, but
on some bikes I haven't Loctited them yet, probably because "most
common" is still not terribly common.
NyLock nuts are a more elegant solution ---

My dropouts have tapped holes for the screws. That means I generally
don't use nuts.

Way back when I had just one bike, I used no fenders unless it was
likely to be wet, and I definitely removed them for time trials or long
(dry) rides. So I fitted my fenders for quick release. For a time, I
used the trick of threading screws permanently through from the inside
of the dropouts toward the outside, so they acted like studes. I then
used wing nuts to fasten the fenders in place on those studs.

But now I just leave the fenders on all the time.

(I don't think I've ever seen a Nylock wing nut.)


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Fri, 12 May 2017 18:08:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/12/2017 3:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 May 2017 14:53:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/11/2017 9:51 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2017 12:27:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 10:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 20:13:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 7:59 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 07:28:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote:



One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just
about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into
the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection.
That did the trick but does not work for a headset.


One thing that DOES work is the light or medium Loc Tite. Not the
stuff you need a torch to release. A drop on every part that might
otherwise ahake loos will even keep an old BSA or Norton from shedding
parts.

I'm a big believer in Loctite. Jobst wasn't, but I never understood why.

Probably as in most cases it isn't necessary.

As I recall, Jobst went further, saying something like "There is no
appropriate use for Loctite on a bicycle."

My fender and rack mounts staunchly disagree.

Well, Jobst was a little dogmatic... even when proven wrong... but I
don't use loctite and my fender stays have never loosened. But I do
use socket headed bolts, which may make a bit of a difference in
tightening torque, i.e, the difference in "feel" between a one inch
diameter screwdriver handle and a 2.5 inch allen wrench.

For me, fender mounting screws are the most common self-loosening
fastener, even though I use allen head screws. Loctite does fix it, but
on some bikes I haven't Loctited them yet, probably because "most
common" is still not terribly common.
NyLock nuts are a more elegant solution ---

My dropouts have tapped holes for the screws. That means I generally
don't use nuts.

Way back when I had just one bike, I used no fenders unless it was
likely to be wet, and I definitely removed them for time trials or long
(dry) rides. So I fitted my fenders for quick release. For a time, I
used the trick of threading screws permanently through from the inside
of the dropouts toward the outside, so they acted like studes. I then
used wing nuts to fasten the fenders in place on those studs.

But now I just leave the fenders on all the time.

(I don't think I've ever seen a Nylock wing nut.)
Then you haven't looked very hard.
http://www.marshallshardware.com/pro...=2-606-546-235
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._rd_i=16410161
https://www.kimballmidwest.com/All-P...ert-Lock-Nuts/

Under 1/4 inch usually a simple self locking Palnut is the solution. (
or a nylon wingnut, which also do not vibrate loose in most
applications)

On Fri, 12 May 2017 14:53:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/11/2017 9:51 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2017 12:27:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 10:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 20:13:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 7:59 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 07:28:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote:



One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just
about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into
the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection.
That did the trick but does not work for a headset.


One thing that DOES work is the light or medium Loc Tite. Not the
stuff you need a torch to release. A drop on every part that might
otherwise ahake loos will even keep an old BSA or Norton from shedding
parts.

I'm a big believer in Loctite. Jobst wasn't, but I never understood why.

Probably as in most cases it isn't necessary.

As I recall, Jobst went further, saying something like "There is no
appropriate use for Loctite on a bicycle."

My fender and rack mounts staunchly disagree.

Well, Jobst was a little dogmatic... even when proven wrong... but I
don't use loctite and my fender stays have never loosened. But I do
use socket headed bolts, which may make a bit of a difference in
tightening torque, i.e, the difference in "feel" between a one inch
diameter screwdriver handle and a 2.5 inch allen wrench.

For me, fender mounting screws are the most common self-loosening
fastener, even though I use allen head screws. Loctite does fix it, but
on some bikes I haven't Loctited them yet, probably because "most
common" is still not terribly common.

What I do, which seems to work, is to use two flat washers, one
between the stay and the dropout and one between the stay and the
screw head. I'm not sure whether this is logical or not but so far my
fenders haven't fallen off :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 12 May 2017 15:42:50 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 12 May 2017 14:53:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/11/2017 9:51 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2017 12:27:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 10:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 20:13:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2017 7:59 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 07:28:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote:



One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just
about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into
the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection.
That did the trick but does not work for a headset.


One thing that DOES work is the light or medium Loc Tite. Not the
stuff you need a torch to release. A drop on every part that might
otherwise ahake loos will even keep an old BSA or Norton from shedding
parts.

I'm a big believer in Loctite. Jobst wasn't, but I never understood why.

Probably as in most cases it isn't necessary.

As I recall, Jobst went further, saying something like "There is no
appropriate use for Loctite on a bicycle."

My fender and rack mounts staunchly disagree.

Well, Jobst was a little dogmatic... even when proven wrong... but I
don't use loctite and my fender stays have never loosened. But I do
use socket headed bolts, which may make a bit of a difference in
tightening torque, i.e, the difference in "feel" between a one inch
diameter screwdriver handle and a 2.5 inch allen wrench.

For me, fender mounting screws are the most common self-loosening
fastener, even though I use allen head screws. Loctite does fix it, but
on some bikes I haven't Loctited them yet, probably because "most
common" is still not terribly common.

NyLock nuts are a more elegant solution ---

Sometimes there isn't any room. I'm thinking of the rear dropouts
where even a bolt that is a little bit too long hits the small
cassette cog.

And, of course, they are extremely difficult to use on the bottle
cages, being bolted to the down tube :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 8 May 2017 04:26:17 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 3:53:29 PM UTC-4, Robert Latest wrote:
...after I properly re-sorted the spacers in the rear cassette. Duh.

robert

It's pretty amazing how well a lot of the 1980s (or a lot earlier)
stuff still works if it's maintained reasnonably well rather than
abused.

I see people riding 70's bikes every day around here, apparently for
practical transportation judging by street clothes instead of athletic
stuff. Makes me smile.

I have acquaintances who ride bikes from the 30s-40s-50s (mostly old
British stuff) quite often. Couple drops of oil every so often and
those old S-A hubs will practically run forever.