Carmina Triple BB Spindle ?

Howdy,
I have searched the archives but did not find a specific answer so
I thought I would post a question or two just in case someone has
already been through this....
I bought a Specialites TA Carmina Triple 110/74 bcd crankset last
year and am trying it as a triple on a Salsa Casseroll I'm building
as
a Brevet bike. I could not get the Carmina to work as a Triple on my
other bike without going to a 118 bottom bracket plus 2mm shim
between
bb shell and drive side cup which caused a chain line that rendered
the last 4 cogs on a Campy 10 speed 12/29 cassette virtually unusable
with the middle ring-34teeth. I was using a 29/34/48 upfront w/ an
IRD
"alpina" compact triple Front deraileur.
I'm not sure what Specialtes TA recomends but I am now having
the same issue with the Salsa even though it has a slimmer seat tube
diameter~ 28.6 vs. 35 ~ I thought that w/ a slimmer seat tube dia. a
115 bb spindle would work but to no avail-just doesn't shift down
into
the smallest chainring. It looks like the fd-specifically the rivet
going into the spring- just touches the frame/seattube and prevents
it
from droping the chain down to the inner chainring....I thought it
might be the FD so I tried an older Sachs Triple fd and a Campy
Chorus
triple fd- all same so via the process of elemination I am thinking I
need a wider axle spindle.
What have other folks done to end up at a similar place? I
prefer
higher cadence with smallwer gears so I thought the "compact triple"
was the answer to my prayers but the crazy "Q" factor has not been
super knee friendly...
Please pardon my frustrated ramble. Any ideas, thought,
suggestions, and experiences are appreciated.

Sincerely,
Dave Penegar

On Mar 12, 9:18*am, Grateful Rider wrote:
Howdy,
* * I have searched the archives but did not find a specific answer so
I thought I would post a question or two just in case someone has
already been through this....
* * I bought a Specialites TA Carmina Triple 110/74 bcd crankset last
year and am trying it as a triple on a Salsa Casseroll I'm building
as
a Brevet bike. I could not get the Carmina to work as a Triple on my
other bike without going to a 118 bottom bracket plus 2mm shim
between
bb shell and drive side cup which caused a chain line that rendered
the last 4 cogs on a Campy 10 speed 12/29 cassette virtually unusable
with the middle ring-34teeth. I was using a 29/34/48 upfront w/ an
IRD
"alpina" compact triple Front deraileur.
* * * * I'm not sure what Specialtes TA recomends but I am now having
the same issue with the Salsa even though it has a slimmer seat tube
diameter~ 28.6 vs. 35 ~ I thought that w/ a slimmer seat tube dia. a
115 bb spindle would work but to no avail-just doesn't shift down
into
the smallest chainring. It looks like the fd-specifically the rivet
going into the spring- just touches the frame/seattube and prevents
it
from droping the chain down to the inner chainring....I thought it
might be the FD so I tried an older Sachs Triple fd and a Campy
Chorus
triple fd- all same so via the process of elemination I am thinking I
need a wider axle spindle.
* * *What have other folks done to end up at a similar place? I
prefer
higher cadence with smallwer gears so I thought the "compact triple"
was the answer to my prayers but the crazy "Q" factor has not been
super knee friendly...
* * Please pardon my frustrated ramble. Any ideas, thought,
suggestions, and experiences are appreciated.

Sincerely,
Dave Penegar

Peter White recommends a 113mm spindle for triples.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/carmina.asp

I'm 99% sure that your FD can't handle the 14T gap between big and
middle rings. You can shift between the big and the middle, but the FD
is too high for the ramp to kick the chain off of the middle ring. I
ran into exactly the same thing when I tried a 50-36-26 combo on a
Sugino XD. Try a Shimano triple FD dessigned for a big-middle gap that
large, like a FD-6603 or FD-7803 (those are designed for a 52-39-30
chainring combo).

On Mar 12, 11:18*am, Grateful Rider wrote:
Howdy,
* * I have searched the archives but did not find a specific answer so
I thought I would post a question or two just in case someone has
already been through this....
* * I bought a Specialites TA Carmina Triple 110/74 bcd crankset last
year and am trying it as a triple on a Salsa Casseroll I'm building
as
a Brevet bike. I could not get the Carmina to work as a Triple on my
other bike without going to a 118 bottom bracket plus 2mm shim
between
bb shell and drive side cup which caused a chain line that rendered
the last 4 cogs on a Campy 10 speed 12/29 cassette virtually unusable
with the middle ring-34teeth. I was using a 29/34/48 upfront w/ an
IRD
"alpina" compact triple Front deraileur.
* * * * I'm not sure what Specialtes TA recomends but I am now having
the same issue with the Salsa even though it has a slimmer seat tube
diameter~ 28.6 vs. 35 ~ I thought that w/ a slimmer seat tube dia. a
115 bb spindle would work but to no avail-just doesn't shift down
into
the smallest chainring. It looks like the fd-specifically the rivet
going into the spring- just touches the frame/seattube and prevents
it
from droping the chain down to the inner chainring....I thought it
might be the FD so I tried an older Sachs Triple fd and a Campy
Chorus
triple fd- all same so via the process of elemination I am thinking I
need a wider axle spindle.
* * *What have other folks done to end up at a similar place? I
prefer
higher cadence with smallwer gears so I thought the "compact triple"
was the answer to my prayers but the crazy "Q" factor has not been
super knee friendly...
* * Please pardon my frustrated ramble. Any ideas, thought,
suggestions, and experiences are appreciated.

Sincerely,
Dave Penegar

I'd try a double front derailleur. Your big to small gap is only 19
teeth. A double should be able to handle this reasonably well.
Especially since you are using Campagnolo components and can ratchet
the front derailleur around. I'd try a shorter bottom bracket too.
The double should take less space than the triple FD and may be able
to get to the small ring and the outer ring. I use a Sora double
front derailleur on a half step plus granny triple. 1.25" seattube,
115mm I think bottom bracket, 1991 Deore DX triple with 45-42-20
rings. I had to grind the back side of the front derailleur to get it
to go in far enough. But cheap Sora derailleurs are perfect for that.

Bonjour,

Hank a écrit :

Peter White recommends a 113mm spindle for triples.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/carmina.asp

I'm 99% sure that your FD can't handle the 14T gap between big and
middle rings. You can shift between the big and the middle, but the FD
is too high for the ramp to kick the chain off of the middle ring. I
ran into exactly the same thing when I tried a 50-36-26 combo on a
Sugino XD. Try a Shimano triple FD dessigned for a big-middle gap that
large, like a FD-6603 or FD-7803 (those are designed for a 52-39-30
chainring combo).

Yes, but FD-7803 is not accepted a 50-39, because the difference of 11
teeth is deficient, and the internal fork of FD comes to touch the
middle ring !

--
Cordialement
Jean Pasquet
[On respecte un homme qui se respecte lui-même] Honoré de Balzac
(pour réponse, remettre les 3 voyelles de mon nom)