Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On 2018-03-21 17:15, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 07:51:34 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one
online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier
of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look
for that brand then.


Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle? https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more
from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard.
Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception
of some Contis). I guess nobody knows.

Ah, but if there was a standard for the bottles carried on bicycles
you wouldn't be able to carry that big bucket of beer that you brag
about. After all, it wouldn't be standard.


That's what panniers were invented for. That is where my growler rides.
Or rode because now I brew beer myself.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2018-03-21 17:12, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 07:57:35 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-21 07:32, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/21/2018 8:59 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 10:48:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 10:58:10 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Just ordered a bottle from Stansport. It is nice but much smaller in
diameter than my California Bike Gear bottle which is a snug fit. So
the
Stansport bottle rattles around in there.

Why can't they agree on one standard diameter? In the electronics
industry we got that licked decades ago.

Any tricks how to adapt to both without bending the cage back and
forth?

Sure. Buy a set of bottle cages made from steel or aluminum rod and
just bend them to fit.

I built a rack to hold two large bottles behind the seat and that is
what I did. It's been working for a number of years now with no
problems.


Right, and after bending it back and forth 20 times to adapt to the
various bottles the holder goes plink ... breaks off.

Or, one could buy several bottles all the same size and bend the cage
only when they all wear out.

One can only speculate on why you have all these problems that the
rest of the world seems to be able to overcome without mention.


Judging by the various partially full bottles encountered along trails I
am not the only one.

It's just that cyclists seem to put up with a lot of stuff that
motorists would not tolerate.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 3/22/2018 6:14 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 21:22:29 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 20:08:29 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Emanuel Berg writes:

Radey Shouman wrote:

Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see
any reference to an outside document.

Why not? Are we supposed to put more stock in
people who first boast of their standards
making the world better, then won't even reveal
their standards free of charge when it is just
a matter of duplicating a bunch of 0s and 1s on
a web server?

Wikipedia is plainly not organized for that sort of purpose.
All facts in it are supposed to be verifiable using some external expert
source -- Wikipedia is explicitly *not* for the first publication.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability

Which is why I thought it odd that no reference or link was provided to
reference to the 73 mm "standard" diameter. Perhaps I missed it.

The sections you mention had a note that they required further
editing. Perhaps because they mention a definite size and did not
provide a reference.

I didn't see that. All sections have an "edit" link, so you, or someone
else can edit them. There are some sections that say "citation needed",
but not the 73 mm pronouncement. I have never edited a Wikipedia entry,
so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I *think* that any Wikki page can be edited at any time. At least I
remember someone on another site complaining about posting something
on the Wikki and later finding it edited to "correct it". His
complaint was that his original entry was factually correct and the
edited version was incorrect and he was trying to find some method of
locking his post so it couldn't be changed. I gathered that there was
no way that an entry could be prevented from being edited.

Right. That's almost the definition of a wiki.

http://dilbert.com/strip/2009-05-08

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/22/2018 8:21 AM, Joerg wrote:

It's just that cyclists seem to put up with a lot of stuff that
motorists would not tolerate.

That's why you need the BBB Fuel Tank XL. Bottles cannot be ejected. You
buy a bottle of water with the right diameter from Trader Joes. Add a
sport top. I like not carrying multiple bottles of water, and if you
don't need a large amount of water you just don't fill it all the way.
If I put the bike on the car rack I can leave the bottle on the bike
knowing it won't bounce out.

It's a hassle to adjust the height of the retaining clamp so don't
change bottle sizes.

http://oi68.tinypic.com/25z2k41.jpg

On 22/03/2018 9:51 AM, sms wrote:
On 3/22/2018 5:48 AM, Duane wrote:

Tires on the other hand are getting ridiculous.Â* I can get a pair of
Conti GP4000s from ChainReactionCycles for the price of one tire locally.

The margins on tires of all kinds are huge. It's like mattresses. So
there's a lot of room for discounting.

But the bigger issue is actually finding the tires you want in stock.
Jay has two large shops near him, as well as the Biketiresdirect pick-up
option. For most of us, it would mean a lot of driving around or calling
around to find the tires we wanted, and then paying 2x the price. Not
the shop's fault, you can't expect a shop to stock hundreds of sizes and
brands of tires.

In my case I'm using tires that are readily available at most shops
dealing with road bikes so that's not an issue. I was using Spec Turbo
Pro tires and those are not available online but since my favorite shop
dropped the Spec line, I switched to Conti 4000s.

On 2018-03-22 10:19, sms wrote:
On 3/22/2018 8:21 AM, Joerg wrote:

It's just that cyclists seem to put up with a lot of stuff that
motorists would not tolerate.

That's why you need the BBB Fuel Tank XL. Bottles cannot be ejected. You
buy a bottle of water with the right diameter from Trader Joes. Add a
sport top. I like not carrying multiple bottles of water, and if you
don't need a large amount of water you just don't fill it all the way.
If I put the bike on the car rack I can leave the bottle on the bike
knowing it won't bounce out.

It's a hassle to adjust the height of the retaining clamp so don't
change bottle sizes.

http://oi68.tinypic.com/25z2k41.jpg


It looks like a solid system though likely not easy to whip out during
the ride to take a sip every now and then. In my case not very practical
because this wouldn't work on the MTB. For that I found a handlebar
holder that hangs on to (fitting) bottles very well. It is very rare
that the bottle flies out and that almost requires some impact with
branches.

For large quantities to refill the bottle, or to take a massive gulp on
a trail, I have lots of trunk space on both bikes. The MTB can carry up
to 1-1/2 gallons which is necessary on long trails during hot summer
days. I really needed I could add my 2-liter hydation pack but I don't
like it because it gives me a sweaty back.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 06:58:26 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:52:02 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one
online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier
of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look
for that brand then.


Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle?
https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more
from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard.
Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception
of some Contis). I guess nobody knows.

There is a standard -- 73mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage
You bought a ****ty water bottle from an outdoor equipment company
that probably drew a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE
plastic bottle manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a
bicycle water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I
wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of
carcinogens.

Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an
outside document.

I don't know if there is a standards body, but there is certainly a de facto standard -- same with mounting bolt spacing. That doesn't mean a manufacturer has to follow the de facto standard, but variations have usually been sold as bottle-cage combos or been advertised as being non-standard, e.g. cage for disposable plastic water bottles, etc.

-- Jay Beattie.

The point is that he bought something that he didn't know would fit on
his bike and when it doesn't fit he complains about it.

What's next? Complaints that the 300c tire he bought on the Web
doesn't fit his MTB?
--
Cheers,

John B.

jbeattie writes:

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:52:02 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one
online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier
of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look
for that brand then.


Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle?
https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more
from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard.
Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception
of some Contis). I guess nobody knows.

There is a standard -- 73mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage
You bought a ****ty water bottle from an outdoor equipment company
that probably drew a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE
plastic bottle manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a
bicycle water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I
wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of
carcinogens.

Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an
outside document.

I don't know if there is a standards body, but there is certainly a de
facto standard -- same with mounting bolt spacing. That doesn't mean a
manufacturer has to follow the de facto standard, but variations have
usually been sold as bottle-cage combos or been advertised as being
non-standard, e.g. cage for disposable plastic water bottles, etc.

That agrees with my experience, of never buying a bottle nor cage that
would not fit the ones I already had. As you say, it's plainly not a
formal standard. Apart from Wikipedia I can't find it even written down
anywhere online.



--

John B. wrote:

DIN 838 Box wrenches, double head - Test
torques series A Standard by Deutsches
Institut Fur Normung E.V. (German National
Standard), 09/01/2007

DIN 895 Engineers wrenches for subordinate
applications - Dimensions and test torques
Standard by Deutsches Institut Fur Normung
E.V. (German National Standard), 09/01/2007

The details of each standard are available
from the Institute upon paying a fee.



I'd like to thank everyone for their answers
and they have made a practical influence, tho
of course it doesn't matter what we do, only
Jehovah knows

Tho I know you like to be brilliant with your
knowledge and I like mine as well I know that
you know its just a bike and just a car and
even an aeroplane. The funny thing is tho
I know you will react internally bubble-bubble
you ALL know this Ha ha ha!

My next project will be a technology one and
some morons will think this any different from
putting together a sweet old steel SWEDISH
standard bike ) You take your lycra...

PS. Here in Sweden everything is so good -
here, we are not nationalists! )

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Emanuel Berg:
John B. wrote:

DIN 838 Box wrenches, double head - Test
torques series A Standard by Deutsches
Institut Fur Normung E.V. (German National
Standard), 09/01/2007

DIN 895 Engineers wrenches for subordinate
applications - Dimensions and test torques
Standard by Deutsches Institut Fur Normung
E.V. (German National Standard), 09/01/2007

The details of each standard are available
from the Institute upon paying a fee.

According to the publisher, though, anyone buying this cheap book is getting
kiloeuro's worth of bicycle tech standards:
https://www.beuth.de/en/publication/din-taschenbuch-345/223066209



Actually, paying a bit of ransom seems preferable to signing up to and
taking notes inside any standards committee meetings.

I'd like to thank everyone for their answers
and they have made a practical influence, tho
of course it doesn't matter what we do, only
Jehovah knows

But then, since last week in Sweden, they are planning to ban Jehovah:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/sweden-plans-ban-on-religious-education-immigration-crisis/

My next project will be a technology one and
some morons will think this any different from
putting together a sweet old steel SWEDISH
standard bike ) You take your lycra...

SWEloi been imbibing Joergian formula suds or inhaling too much CO?

PS. Here in Sweden everything is so good -
here, we are not nationalists! )

What a shame! A proper nationalist would simply row (or Volvo-marine) his
boat across the Baltic Sea to Prussian-occupied Rostock[1] in Southern
Sweden, on a mission to liberate wrench standards. Printouts or taking
photographs of any of the sacred DIN wrench standards is Verboten!, but
having Merkelian library staff copy for you would probably work just by
claiming to be a professor from "Upper Syria".

[1]
http://www.ub.uni-rostock.de/ub/xAboutUs/pnz_xen.shtml
Uni Rostock
Parkstr. 6
18057 Rostock