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#32
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Buying and Selling
On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 10:30:49 +0700, John B.
wrote: On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 06:52:12 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 7:03:35 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 12:36:31 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote: On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote: On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote: snip Or the brake pads from China, $2/pair and free ship. As I have always said the postage fees are grossly lopsided between Asia and the US and that is one of the core reasosn for our trade deficit. Except that most politicians (except manybe one ...) do not understand that. It's an international reciprocal postal treaty that no one worried about when it was mainly U.S. residents of Chinese descent sending packages to relatives in China. More than a decade ago tyat has changed, big time. How long does it take for politicians to turn on their brains? Or for some of them, do they even have one? ... The origin country gets all the postage and the destination country gets nothing with the assumption that the volume will be roughly equal. The small volume of direct-to-consumer low-value items from China is not a core reason for the trade deficit. It is rising, big time. I know people who buy just about anything other than groceries on EBay. When they say "Oh, it always gets here in three to five weeks" you know what's going on. Heck, I even had stuff I bought on Amazon come via "China Post". ... These items would still come into the U.S. through other channels, at higher prices, were it not so cheap to do international shipping from China, you'd just have a middleman. Same reason. The stuff then comes in bulk but the shipping charges are grossly lower than if a US vendor sent the same items to Asia. It isn't just China. For example, when we needed name tags for our therapy dogs' vests (for nursing home visits) we ordered them via Amazon. A small package arrived from Manila, Philippines. I couldn't believe it considering that we had paid just a few Dollars. Looked at the postage, calculated - $0.60. Airmail! It came from a seamstress who appears to specialize in cloth name tags. The shipping cost discrepancy alone puts similar seamstresses in the US out of business. Given that the cost of living, and salaries, are as much as five times cheaper in China than in the U.S. how is changing the mailing costs going to effect sales? My wife's older sister and her son, his wife, and the grand kids visited Thailand about six months ago. The grandson, probably 19 years old, told me that he worked part time at "the dollar store" unloading trucks for $10 an hour. The current minimum salary in Thailand is 300 baht, about $9 a day. At today's exchange rate the U.S. salary, for coolie labour, is ~9 times the Thai salary. John, are you telling us that wrapping paper, cardboard boxes, packing plastic bubble wrap and plastic tape are so cheap in Thailand or China that they can wrap and send small parts worth a couple of bucks to the US with free shipping and make a profit? Here they generally pack small stuff in those plastic zip-lock envelopes and I have no idea how much they cost but they are cheap. and yes, if you are shipping via a "packed container" then you are paying (the last I looked) something like $3.00 a cubic metre. So yes, I can see no reason that one cannot ship small stuff and still turn a profit. Example: I bought some anodized valve caps at the monthly swap meet. I paid 20 baht for a pair, about U.S. 60 cents. Now, given that I am a foreigner, and everyone knows foreigners are rich, I may have paid somewhere in the neighborhood of 25% more than a Thai would have. The guy at the swap meet certainly wasn't a major importer of valve caps so I assume that there were at least two and probably three dealers between the manufacturer and me, and every one would have taken a profit. So what would it cost to buy valve caps directly from the maker? Maybe five cents a pair? And how many valve caps can you ship in a 1 cu. metre box? I have no idea but certainly 1,000 sets would not be a far fetched number so shipping costs from Shanghai to San Diego is ~3 cents a set. So a pair of valve caps costs ~8 cents a pair landed at San Diego port. Ebay is selling them for $1.20 a set, a profit of perhaps $1.12 a pair disregarding any duty paid. So yes, given costs in most of Asia one can sell parts at what seem to a Usian as ridiculously cheap prices. And if you don't believe me just go and price medicine in Canada and compare it to U.S. prices. P.S. I just got back from the Super Market and zip lock bags to package two valve caps cost ~1 cent each. (damn, there goes the profits) -- Cheers, John B. |
#33
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Buying and Selling
On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 4:09:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/23/2017 5:04 PM, wrote: On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 7:57:21 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-23 06:49, wrote: On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 4:20:09 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-22 14:24, sms wrote: [...] Of course other countries could reciprocally abuse it, but there aren't many companies manufacturing low-value consumer goods and shipping them to Chinese consumers. It is not all about low value merchandise. To give you just one example: A guy like me wants to build some electronics for his bicycles and then find out "Oh rats, I am out of those buck switcher ICs". The guy is not in a hurry because it's just hobby stuff. He looks at a domestic source and finds out that the $0.50 parts are available but there will be hefty shipping fees. Then he fires up EBay, Alibaba or whatever and .. voila .. the same regulator ICs for roughly the same $0.50 but .. free shipping. Then he needs a new light. $20. Plus another $12.95 shipping. WHAT?! Goes on EBay or Amazon - finds Chinese vendor - $20 and free shipping - ka-ching. A few days ago while painting I realized that I need brushes that I can cut and add an angle bracket to but where the tip is short. Not available locally, web dealers wanted too much in shipping. Found them in Hong Kong for less than $1.50 a pop and free shipping. So I ordered - ka-ching. This is not good for domestic painting suppliers. Multiply this by a gazillion cases and we have a problem. All you have to do is go through eBay now and you can find the plastic cable ends sold 10 to a pack for $1.50 being sold from China with free shipping. The wrapping on a package cost more than that. I have stopped buying parts from China. Why? When you go to the local store and buy for 5x the price you get ... a part from China. Just heavily marked up along the distribution chain. I would much rather go to a shop and pay 10x the price than hope that a shipment will arrive at some indeterminate time from China. Joerg actually made a significant point in that US export postage is wildly inexplicably expensive compared to other countries. A medium flat rate mailer to Macao now costs me $71.95. The return postage was $6.50. This is typical. Try this one on for size - sending a bike to Australia was $800. It would be cheaper to buy it it's own seat on a plane. |
#34
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Buying and Selling
On 2017-09-23 20:52, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:15:14 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-22 19:03, John B. wrote: On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 12:36:31 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote: On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote: On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote: snip Or the brake pads from China, $2/pair and free ship. As I have always said the postage fees are grossly lopsided between Asia and the US and that is one of the core reasosn for our trade deficit. Except that most politicians (except manybe one ...) do not understand that. It's an international reciprocal postal treaty that no one worried about when it was mainly U.S. residents of Chinese descent sending packages to relatives in China. More than a decade ago tyat has changed, big time. How long does it take for politicians to turn on their brains? Or for some of them, do they even have one? ... The origin country gets all the postage and the destination country gets nothing with the assumption that the volume will be roughly equal. The small volume of direct-to-consumer low-value items from China is not a core reason for the trade deficit. It is rising, big time. I know people who buy just about anything other than groceries on EBay. When they say "Oh, it always gets here in three to five weeks" you know what's going on. Heck, I even had stuff I bought on Amazon come via "China Post". ... These items would still come into the U.S. through other channels, at higher prices, were it not so cheap to do international shipping from China, you'd just have a middleman. Same reason. The stuff then comes in bulk but the shipping charges are grossly lower than if a US vendor sent the same items to Asia. It isn't just China. For example, when we needed name tags for our therapy dogs' vests (for nursing home visits) we ordered them via Amazon. A small package arrived from Manila, Philippines. I couldn't believe it considering that we had paid just a few Dollars. Looked at the postage, calculated - $0.60. Airmail! It came from a seamstress who appears to specialize in cloth name tags. The shipping cost discrepancy alone puts similar seamstresses in the US out of business. Given that the cost of living, and salaries, are as much as five times cheaper in China than in the U.S. how is changing the mailing costs going to effect sales? The ships and aircraft aren't going to be operable at five times less. Certainly ships are noticeably cheaper to operate if they are NOT U.S. flag vessels. Aircraft? I'm not sure but I would bet that crew costs are noticeably cheaper and almost certainly maintenance costs are cheaper and I would guess if a national carrier in China that fuel costs are also cheaper. Nope. They pretty much pay international (for example Singapore) prices: http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch....ID=18116&LANG= China Post flies Boeing and I can hardly imagine that they get spare parts and service a whole lot cheaper than anyone else whose fleet consist of Boeing aircraft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Postal_Airlines My wife's older sister and her son, his wife, and the grand kids visited Thailand about six months ago. The grandson, probably 19 years old, told me that he worked part time at "the dollar store" unloading trucks for $10 an hour. The current minimum salary in Thailand is 300 baht, about $9 a day. At today's exchange rate the U.S. salary, for coolie labour, is ~9 times the Thai salary. Think international for a minute. That changes things. International? Isn't Thailand and California international enough for you? See links above. Local wages are much less relevant when you consider international transport of good. Because someone has to pay the various transport sections, equipment, maintenance, et cetera. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#35
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Buying and Selling
On 9/23/2017 10:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:08:58 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 9/23/2017 5:04 PM, wrote: On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 7:57:21 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-23 06:49, wrote: On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 4:20:09 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-22 14:24, sms wrote: [...] Of course other countries could reciprocally abuse it, but there aren't many companies manufacturing low-value consumer goods and shipping them to Chinese consumers. It is not all about low value merchandise. To give you just one example: A guy like me wants to build some electronics for his bicycles and then find out "Oh rats, I am out of those buck switcher ICs". The guy is not in a hurry because it's just hobby stuff. He looks at a domestic source and finds out that the $0.50 parts are available but there will be hefty shipping fees. Then he fires up EBay, Alibaba or whatever and .. voila .. the same regulator ICs for roughly the same $0.50 but .. free shipping. Then he needs a new light. $20. Plus another $12.95 shipping. WHAT?! Goes on EBay or Amazon - finds Chinese vendor - $20 and free shipping - ka-ching. A few days ago while painting I realized that I need brushes that I can cut and add an angle bracket to but where the tip is short. Not available locally, web dealers wanted too much in shipping. Found them in Hong Kong for less than $1.50 a pop and free shipping. So I ordered - ka-ching. This is not good for domestic painting suppliers. Multiply this by a gazillion cases and we have a problem. All you have to do is go through eBay now and you can find the plastic cable ends sold 10 to a pack for $1.50 being sold from China with free shipping. The wrapping on a package cost more than that. I have stopped buying parts from China. Why? When you go to the local store and buy for 5x the price you get ... a part from China. Just heavily marked up along the distribution chain. I would much rather go to a shop and pay 10x the price than hope that a shipment will arrive at some indeterminate time from China. Joerg actually made a significant point in that US export postage is wildly inexplicably expensive compared to other countries. A medium flat rate mailer to Macao now costs me $71.95. The return postage was $6.50. This is typical. But isn't it based on U.S. domestic postal costs? I recently checked and to mail a letter, domestically, in Thailand is 2 baht, about 6 cents. In the U.S. I believe I read that it is 49 cents. No, it isn't at all. First Class domestic postage is set by an Act of Congress. Literally. Package and export rates are set by USPS management using a Magic 8 Ball and a dartboard. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#36
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Buying and Selling
On 9/24/2017 9:22 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 4:09:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/23/2017 5:04 PM, wrote: On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 7:57:21 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-23 06:49, wrote: On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 4:20:09 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-22 14:24, sms wrote: [...] Of course other countries could reciprocally abuse it, but there aren't many companies manufacturing low-value consumer goods and shipping them to Chinese consumers. It is not all about low value merchandise. To give you just one example: A guy like me wants to build some electronics for his bicycles and then find out "Oh rats, I am out of those buck switcher ICs". The guy is not in a hurry because it's just hobby stuff. He looks at a domestic source and finds out that the $0.50 parts are available but there will be hefty shipping fees. Then he fires up EBay, Alibaba or whatever and .. voila .. the same regulator ICs for roughly the same $0.50 but .. free shipping. Then he needs a new light. $20. Plus another $12.95 shipping. WHAT?! Goes on EBay or Amazon - finds Chinese vendor - $20 and free shipping - ka-ching. A few days ago while painting I realized that I need brushes that I can cut and add an angle bracket to but where the tip is short. Not available locally, web dealers wanted too much in shipping. Found them in Hong Kong for less than $1.50 a pop and free shipping. So I ordered - ka-ching. This is not good for domestic painting suppliers. Multiply this by a gazillion cases and we have a problem. All you have to do is go through eBay now and you can find the plastic cable ends sold 10 to a pack for $1.50 being sold from China with free shipping. The wrapping on a package cost more than that. I have stopped buying parts from China. Why? When you go to the local store and buy for 5x the price you get ... a part from China. Just heavily marked up along the distribution chain. I would much rather go to a shop and pay 10x the price than hope that a shipment will arrive at some indeterminate time from China. Joerg actually made a significant point in that US export postage is wildly inexplicably expensive compared to other countries. A medium flat rate mailer to Macao now costs me $71.95. The return postage was $6.50. This is typical. Try this one on for size - sending a bike to Australia was $800. It would be cheaper to buy it it's own seat on a plane. Yep, a recent complete bike to ROK cost just under $1000 -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#37
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Buying and Selling
On 2017-09-23 16:08, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/23/2017 5:04 PM, wrote: On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 7:57:21 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-23 06:49, wrote: On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 4:20:09 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-22 14:24, sms wrote: [...] Of course other countries could reciprocally abuse it, but there aren't many companies manufacturing low-value consumer goods and shipping them to Chinese consumers. It is not all about low value merchandise. To give you just one example: A guy like me wants to build some electronics for his bicycles and then find out "Oh rats, I am out of those buck switcher ICs". The guy is not in a hurry because it's just hobby stuff. He looks at a domestic source and finds out that the $0.50 parts are available but there will be hefty shipping fees. Then he fires up EBay, Alibaba or whatever and .. voila .. the same regulator ICs for roughly the same $0.50 but .. free shipping. Then he needs a new light. $20. Plus another $12.95 shipping. WHAT?! Goes on EBay or Amazon - finds Chinese vendor - $20 and free shipping - ka-ching. A few days ago while painting I realized that I need brushes that I can cut and add an angle bracket to but where the tip is short. Not available locally, web dealers wanted too much in shipping. Found them in Hong Kong for less than $1.50 a pop and free shipping. So I ordered - ka-ching. This is not good for domestic painting suppliers. Multiply this by a gazillion cases and we have a problem. All you have to do is go through eBay now and you can find the plastic cable ends sold 10 to a pack for $1.50 being sold from China with free shipping. The wrapping on a package cost more than that. I have stopped buying parts from China. Why? When you go to the local store and buy for 5x the price you get ... a part from China. Just heavily marked up along the distribution chain. I would much rather go to a shop and pay 10x the price than hope that a shipment will arrive at some indeterminate time from China. So far the shipping times have been reasonable and as expected. 2-5 weeks for free-ship. I've also had things for my job sent faster and the cost was miniscule compared to a domestic (!) shipment inside the US. The topper were inductors for a project that were here next day. I have no idea how they pulled this off logistically. From Minnesota I get that all the time, but from China? They must have almost tossed it to the pilot of an aircraft with its engines running. Joerg actually made a significant point in that US export postage is wildly inexplicably expensive compared to other countries. A medium flat rate mailer to Macao now costs me $71.95. The return postage was $6.50. This is typical. From the Philippines to California via airmail it cost less than from across town here. Something is seriously lopsided and this needs to be taken care of. Else we'll be taken to the cleaners. I installed new disc brake pads yesterday. $2/pair and they got here in two weeks from China, Hangzhou Novich brand with which I had the best experience so far in terms of brake performance and endurance. There is a lot of stuff where, if the consumer plans ahead properly, it does not matter at all whether it take 2, 4 or 6 weeks. Luckily my wife must have a masters degree in planning. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#38
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Buying and Selling
On 2017-09-22 14:27, sms wrote:
On 9/22/2017 7:20 AM, jbeattie wrote: [...] Norco -- a Canadian company. The frame is made in Taiwan by honorary Canadians. They even have a hockey team. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7nepg5W0AAZNEu.jpg Eh? At Interbike I was talking to a company from Canada, and I pretended to read the badge of the employee. The company is from Guelph, Ontario, Canada. I asked him what state Canada was in. He began to explain that Canada was a different country. A guy asked me where I was born. "In Germany" ... "Oh, isn't that near Paris?" ... "Yeah, sort of". For the record, I ride an American MTB and an international road bike (it was custom built from Dutch, Japanese, French, Italian and German parts). -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#39
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Buying and Selling
On 9/24/2017 9:33 AM, Joerg wrote:
From the Philippines to California via airmail it cost less than from across town here. Something is seriously lopsided and this needs to be taken care of. Else we'll be taken to the cleaners. The practical solution is for the USPS to charge U.S. companies 10 cents to ship small padded envelopes of cheap stuff to China, and begin sending mass quantities of this stuff to China. Then China Post will have to bear the cost of delivering the stuff to the recipients. After a while, they will agree to start charging more to Chinese companies. But of course what U.S. manufacturers are making low-value consumer items that people in China want to buy? The problem is that most of the cost of delivering small packages is borne by the country where the items are sent to, yet the sending country gets all the money. So the reciprocal system only works if the quantities are roughly equal in both directions. If 10,000 companies in Shenzhen bring their shipments in big bags to the China Post cargo center, all China Post does is throw them into a cargo container and onto the plane and deliver them to the U.S. Postal service. Since the items are usually very light and small, the cost is very low to China Post. It's a problem for the USPS, but we can't pull out of the Covfefe treaty because of it. I think that Nambia is the big market for U.S. goods, so let's concentrate on selling stuff to Nambia and other non-existent countries. I installed new disc brake pads yesterday. $2/pair and they got here in two weeks from China, Hangzhou Novich brand with which I had the best experience so far in terms of brake performance and endurance. There is a lot of stuff where, if the consumer plans ahead properly, it does not matter at all whether it take 2, 4 or 6 weeks. Luckily my wife must have a masters degree in planning. I have bought many items from China that I could not buy in the U.S. at any price. I have also bought many items from China via eBay U.S. resellers who stock the item and charge much higher prices, but you get it in two days instead of 2-3 weeks. I've also bought bicycle stuff from the UK, Spain, Australia, and Canada that is not sold in the U.S.. It's a global economy. I don't expect my LBS to stock some cool, but esoteric, product that there isn't a mass market for, but by the same token I don't expect them to complain about people buying that item direct from another country. |
#40
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Buying and Selling
On 9/24/2017 11:41 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-22 14:27, sms wrote: On 9/22/2017 7:20 AM, jbeattie wrote: [...] Norco -- a Canadian company. The frame is made in Taiwan by honorary Canadians. They even have a hockey team. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7nepg5W0AAZNEu.jpg Eh? At Interbike I was talking to a company from Canada, and I pretended to read the badge of the employee. The company is from Guelph, Ontario, Canada. I asked him what state Canada was in. He began to explain that Canada was a different country. A guy asked me where I was born. "In Germany" ... "Oh, isn't that near Paris?" ... "Yeah, sort of". For the record, I ride an American MTB and an international road bike (it was custom built from Dutch, Japanese, French, Italian and German parts). Old joke: Why are there trees along the Champs Elysees? So the German army can march in the shade. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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