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  #71  
Old September 27th 17, 03:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Buying and Selling

On 2017-09-26 19:39, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 07:26:12 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-25 19:23, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 07:06:25 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-24 17:01, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 07:34:50 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-23 20:52, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:15:14 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-22 19:03, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 12:36:31 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote:
On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote:

On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote:

snip

Or the brake pads from China, $2/pair and free ship. As I have always
said the postage fees are grossly lopsided between Asia and the US and
that is one of the core reasosn for our trade deficit. Except that most
politicians (except manybe one ...) do not understand that.

It's an international reciprocal postal treaty that no one worried about
when it was mainly U.S. residents of Chinese descent sending packages to
relatives in China.


More than a decade ago tyat has changed, big time. How long does it take
for politicians to turn on their brains? Or for some of them, do they
even have one?


... The origin country gets all the postage and the
destination country gets nothing with the assumption that the volume
will be roughly equal.

The small volume of direct-to-consumer low-value items from China is not
a core reason for the trade deficit.


It is rising, big time. I know people who buy just about anything other
than groceries on EBay. When they say "Oh, it always gets here in three
to five weeks" you know what's going on. Heck, I even had stuff I bought
on Amazon come via "China Post".


... These items would still come into
the U.S. through other channels, at higher prices, were it not so cheap
to do international shipping from China, you'd just have a middleman.


Same reason. The stuff then comes in bulk but the shipping charges are
grossly lower than if a US vendor sent the same items to Asia. It isn't
just China. For example, when we needed name tags for our therapy dogs'
vests (for nursing home visits) we ordered them via Amazon. A small
package arrived from Manila, Philippines. I couldn't believe it
considering that we had paid just a few Dollars. Looked at the postage,
calculated - $0.60. Airmail! It came from a seamstress who appears to
specialize in cloth name tags. The shipping cost discrepancy alone puts
similar seamstresses in the US out of business.

Given that the cost of living, and salaries, are as much as five times
cheaper in China than in the U.S. how is changing the mailing costs
going to effect sales?


The ships and aircraft aren't going to be operable at five times less.

Certainly ships are noticeably cheaper to operate if they are NOT U.S.
flag vessels. Aircraft? I'm not sure but I would bet that crew costs
are noticeably cheaper and almost certainly maintenance costs are
cheaper and I would guess if a national carrier in China that fuel
costs are also cheaper.


Nope. They pretty much pay international (for example Singapore) prices:

http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch....ID=18116&LANG=

China Post flies Boeing and I can hardly imagine that they get spare
parts and service a whole lot cheaper than anyone else whose fleet
consist of Boeing aircraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Postal_Airlines

You seem to assume that Boeing parts are all that enter into
maintaining an airplane. Wrong. The engines, for example, can be
overhauled and labour, facilities and equipment are a large part of
the cost of the overhaul. The airframe maintenance is also largely a
matter of facilities, labour and equipment.


Ah yes, and of course Rolls-Royce sells their engine parts and service
to the Chinese at an 80% discount ...

To be honest I don't know how Rolls sells their jet engines but I do
know that the U.S. engine makers sold their engines to the USAF much
cheaper then they sold the same engines to commercial users.


The Pentagon will get the usual qualtity discount but not 80-90%. With
China Post (and many others) versus USPS we are talking factors of 5:1
to 10:1 here. That difference is not found in the equipment.

Nope, according to the GE rep the USAF got their engines cheaper
because they did not demand any form of guarantee.


How _much_ cheaper?


But I am sure that you know that jet engines are manufactured in
China? CFN International, a joint venture between GE and SAFRAN Group.
CFM has already delivered 20,000 engines over four decades, making it
the most popular airline jet engine ever. In fact, a CFM-powered
airplane takes off every 2.5 seconds.

Perhaps they aren't using Rolls engines :-)


No, but they aren't selling the engines and the service for 1/10th of
the price.



Hey! I was in the business of maintaining airplanes for my uncle for
20 years and the normal maintenance manpower for a fleet of airplanes
was several hundred people. All of whom are five times cheaper in
China, and the equipment, tools maintenance stands, buildings, all
cheaper in China.


Your uncle probably didn't fly Boeings or Airbuses internationally.
Those companies require quite strict procedures or they will call off
all bets.

Nope. The companies that make airplanes usually offer a number of what
one might call "standard" versions, for example number of passenger
seats or number of crew positions. Indonesia for example bought Boeing
aircraft with only two crew positions when other companies were buying
three crew configurations.

And once you buy the thing, test flown and accepted, the aircraft
belongs to you and Boeing or Airbus no longer have anything to say
about it.


The air traffic regulator in the respective countries has a word to say
about that. They usually require maintenance per the book, per
manufacturer's instructions. There is no "Oh, let's use that aftermarket
part here because the original is too expensive". You don't follow those
rules, you lose cert. Some countries are a bit loose here and then it
can happen (and has) that the FAA prohibits their aircraft from coming
into US air space. Rightfully so.


Nope again. Yes various countries do attempt to control the quality
(for want of a better word) of aircraft flying into their country but
"after market" parts are not forbidden as innumerable different
manufacturers make airplane parts.


Only if approved for type and model. Supplemental Type Certificate or
STC. I know a little about this stuff because I am sometimes designing
electronics for aircraft and while doing that I am a consultant to third
party companies, not to an aircraft manufacturer (except once) .


What does happen is that all aircraft parts must be approved - I think
that they call it "type approved" for aircraft use - and as long as
that is documented then there is no question that it can be used.


See?

[...]


When I was in Indonesia we were approached by a group of Indonesian
Airforce people to see if we could improve the maintenance on their
helicopters. We approached the helicopter makers about parts prices
and were referred to their S.E.A. representative who, in effect, told
us to get lost as they already hade a very nice arrangement to sell
parts to the Indonesian air force at prices much higher then they were
selling to private helicopter companies in the region.


It does not explain a 5-10x factor between US and Chinese shipping
costs. There is more going on, way deeper than equipment-related.


Firstly you are saying "shipping costs" which imply moving substantial
amounts of freight, trans-oceanic, by air or sea which is determined
primarily by supply and demand, when what you are talking about is
sending mail, rates for which is determined by the government of the
country in which the mail is posted.


Mail = shipping. When some buys a bearing for a vehcile front wheel or
whatever in China it must be shipped. They generally use China Post for
that. Which charges a small fractions of the cost to the shipper as the
US Post Office does in the other direction. _That_ is the problem. This
was greatly aggravated by the stupid decision to no longer offer surface
mail overseas.


What you are really saying is that the U.S. mail system charges what
might be termed as outrageously high rates while foreign countries
charge more rational rates. I've already mentioned the cost of mailing
a letter domestically. 2 baht (about 6 cents US) versus a U.S. cost of
49 cents - that is eight times more expensive.


Same goes for international shipping when compared with most Asian
countries. Heck, even Europeans can now send stuff over here to the US
for less than we can to Europe and that was not possible 30 years ago.
We sometimes make customized calendars for relatives but lately the post
office wanted a whopping $25 (yes, twenty-five) to send it to Europe via
cheapest rate.


Rather than complain about the Chinese or other Asian mail rates you
need to take a look at the U.S. costs.


That is what I am saying all the time. The US system is messed up and
needs remedy. For the first time we have a president who understands
such commercial stuff and I am hoping he'll do something about it.
Unfortunately he has poor support from his party.


By the way, the Singapore postal service charges 30 cents Singapore
(about 19 cents US) to mail a letter domestically, approximately 40%
the cost of the U.S. and the Singapore Postal Service makes a profit.



Take another look. Compare the average travel distance of a letter in
Singapore to one in the US. Singapore is not among the countries
offering good shipping rates to merchants. China and the Philippines
are, for example.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #73  
Old September 27th 17, 04:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Buying and Selling

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 6:58:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 06:36:12 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 7:53:43 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 15:50:54 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/25/2017 2:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-25 08:03, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/25/2017 9:06 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-24 17:01, John B. wrote:
24 Sep Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-23 20:52, John B. wrote:
23 Sep Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-22 19:03, John B. wrote:
22 Sep Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote:
On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote:
On 2017-09-19 07:06,
wrote:

snip

-snip snip-

Hey! I was in the business of maintaining airplanes for my
uncle for
20 years and the normal maintenance manpower for a fleet
of airplanes
was several hundred people. All of whom are five times
cheaper in
China, and the equipment, tools maintenance stands,
buildings, all
cheaper in China.


Your uncle probably didn't fly Boeings or Airbuses
internationally. Those companies require quite strict
procedures or they will call off all bets.

-more snip-

USAF, Navy, Marines & SAC fly LOTS of miles/hours.
(no Airbus hardware!)


Which of them has their aircraft serviced by a low cost shop
in China or elsewhere?


Mr Slocumb might elaborate but I bet no facility staffed by
Uncle Sam's enlisted military, anywhere, is 'low cost'.

Having observed some of the civilian "feather merchants" that inhabit
the military system I suggest that perhaps, disregarding the physical
installation, the Military might be the lower cost :-)

But in a more sober vein the Military works on a budget system. the
Defense Department allocates so much money to a Unit for, say aircraft
fuel, and the Unit is then tasked with using all that fuel, as the
byword in any government agency is "Never, Never under spend your
budget!"

The theory being that if you don't use all the money this year you
will get less next year.


First you give us the interesting theory that the Air Force doesn't do preventative maintenance (if it ain't broke don't fix it) followed by hundreds of Chinese "overhauling" F4's. I must say that at least your ideas are novel.


Quite the contrary. The Air force did come up with a program which
THEY referred to as "if it isn't broke don't fix it" which referred to
the "time change" items, mostly engine components, that were changed
on an hours of use basis rather than on a does it work basis. The
result was both an increase in the hours flown/hours maintenance ratio
as well as a reduction in the time required for the various scheduled
inspection times.

The "overhaul" facility I mentioned in Taiwan, effectively took an F-4
apart and rebuilt it completely. Even the hydraulic hoses and tubing
were replaced.


I don't know what Air Force you were in but in mine all mission critical items were replaced on schedules. Maybe you were talking about the food in the mess halls?
  #74  
Old September 27th 17, 04:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Buying and Selling

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 7:40:06 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-26 18:46, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 06:29:11 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 7:23:20 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

But I am sure that you know that jet engines are manufactured in
China? CFN International, a joint venture between GE and SAFRAN Group.
CFM has already delivered 20,000 engines over four decades, making it
the most popular airline jet engine ever. In fact, a CFM-powered
airplane takes off every 2.5 seconds.

I suppose this is part of your thesis that they send jet engines via
China Post


Nope, I was replying to Joerg who was, it appeared, claiming that
airplane engines were only made by Rolls.



I never wrote that. Do not put words in my mouth that I did not say.


A rather large aerospace firm emailed that they want to put me on their officially approved engineering list. I said yes though I'm not about to move and they do have some facilities in the bay area.

I keep getting job offerings that I apply for. I never hear anything from them and then a couple of months later the same job shows up. What in the hell do you think that is? This has been going on with the same jobs for months.
  #75  
Old September 27th 17, 06:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Buying and Selling

On 2017-09-27 08:46, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 7:40:06 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-26 18:46, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 06:29:11 -0700 (PDT),

wrote:

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 7:23:20 PM UTC-7, John B.
wrote:

But I am sure that you know that jet engines are manufactured
in China? CFN International, a joint venture between GE and
SAFRAN Group. CFM has already delivered 20,000 engines over
four decades, making it the most popular airline jet engine
ever. In fact, a CFM-powered airplane takes off every 2.5
seconds.

I suppose this is part of your thesis that they send jet
engines via China Post

Nope, I was replying to Joerg who was, it appeared, claiming
that airplane engines were only made by Rolls.



I never wrote that. Do not put words in my mouth that I did not
say.


A rather large aerospace firm emailed that they want to put me on
their officially approved engineering list. I said yes though I'm not
about to move and they do have some facilities in the bay area.


Being on a list doesn't always result in real assignments though.

My requirement is that I can do consulting (design) work right here. The
occasional trip to a client for EMC compliance work and such is fine but
I will not move there. Most can be done remotely now. I just came off a
lengthy debug session where for the most part we used the Zoom
conference service and I could see their oscilloscope live, as well as
the board schematics, layout and code. That way it was easy to talk
their engineer through the measurements and derive conclusions about
what needs to be changed. This is one of those cases that would have
required a trip to Texas in the olden days. No more.


I keep getting job offerings that I apply for. I never hear anything
from them and then a couple of months later the same job shows up.
What in the hell do you think that is? This has been going on with
the same jobs for months.


Unfortunately this is normal these days. Sometimes companies want to
create an image in public that everything is going gangbusters there, by
bloviating that they are hiring like crazy. So you sometimes see job ads
for jobs that aren't really there.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #76  
Old September 27th 17, 07:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Buying and Selling

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 7:18:35 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-26 19:39, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 07:26:12 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-25 19:23, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 07:06:25 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-24 17:01, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 07:34:50 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-23 20:52, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:15:14 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-22 19:03, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 12:36:31 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote:
On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote:

On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote:

snip

Or the brake pads from China, $2/pair and free ship. As I have always
said the postage fees are grossly lopsided between Asia and the US and
that is one of the core reasosn for our trade deficit. Except that most
politicians (except manybe one ...) do not understand that.

It's an international reciprocal postal treaty that no one worried about
when it was mainly U.S. residents of Chinese descent sending packages to
relatives in China.


More than a decade ago tyat has changed, big time. How long does it take
for politicians to turn on their brains? Or for some of them, do they
even have one?


... The origin country gets all the postage and the
destination country gets nothing with the assumption that the volume
will be roughly equal.

The small volume of direct-to-consumer low-value items from China is not
a core reason for the trade deficit.


It is rising, big time. I know people who buy just about anything other
than groceries on EBay. When they say "Oh, it always gets here in three
to five weeks" you know what's going on. Heck, I even had stuff I bought
on Amazon come via "China Post".


... These items would still come into
the U.S. through other channels, at higher prices, were it not so cheap
to do international shipping from China, you'd just have a middleman.


Same reason. The stuff then comes in bulk but the shipping charges are
grossly lower than if a US vendor sent the same items to Asia. It isn't
just China. For example, when we needed name tags for our therapy dogs'
vests (for nursing home visits) we ordered them via Amazon. A small
package arrived from Manila, Philippines. I couldn't believe it
considering that we had paid just a few Dollars. Looked at the postage,
calculated - $0.60. Airmail! It came from a seamstress who appears to
specialize in cloth name tags. The shipping cost discrepancy alone puts
similar seamstresses in the US out of business.

Given that the cost of living, and salaries, are as much as five times
cheaper in China than in the U.S. how is changing the mailing costs
going to effect sales?


The ships and aircraft aren't going to be operable at five times less.

Certainly ships are noticeably cheaper to operate if they are NOT U.S.
flag vessels. Aircraft? I'm not sure but I would bet that crew costs
are noticeably cheaper and almost certainly maintenance costs are
cheaper and I would guess if a national carrier in China that fuel
costs are also cheaper.


Nope. They pretty much pay international (for example Singapore) prices:

http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch....ID=18116&LANG=

China Post flies Boeing and I can hardly imagine that they get spare
parts and service a whole lot cheaper than anyone else whose fleet
consist of Boeing aircraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Postal_Airlines

You seem to assume that Boeing parts are all that enter into
maintaining an airplane. Wrong. The engines, for example, can be
overhauled and labour, facilities and equipment are a large part of
the cost of the overhaul. The airframe maintenance is also largely a
matter of facilities, labour and equipment.


Ah yes, and of course Rolls-Royce sells their engine parts and service
to the Chinese at an 80% discount ...

To be honest I don't know how Rolls sells their jet engines but I do
know that the U.S. engine makers sold their engines to the USAF much
cheaper then they sold the same engines to commercial users.


The Pentagon will get the usual qualtity discount but not 80-90%. With
China Post (and many others) versus USPS we are talking factors of 5:1
to 10:1 here. That difference is not found in the equipment.

Nope, according to the GE rep the USAF got their engines cheaper
because they did not demand any form of guarantee.


How _much_ cheaper?


But I am sure that you know that jet engines are manufactured in
China? CFN International, a joint venture between GE and SAFRAN Group..
CFM has already delivered 20,000 engines over four decades, making it
the most popular airline jet engine ever. In fact, a CFM-powered
airplane takes off every 2.5 seconds.

Perhaps they aren't using Rolls engines :-)


No, but they aren't selling the engines and the service for 1/10th of
the price.



Hey! I was in the business of maintaining airplanes for my uncle for
20 years and the normal maintenance manpower for a fleet of airplanes
was several hundred people. All of whom are five times cheaper in
China, and the equipment, tools maintenance stands, buildings, all
cheaper in China.


Your uncle probably didn't fly Boeings or Airbuses internationally.
Those companies require quite strict procedures or they will call off
all bets.

Nope. The companies that make airplanes usually offer a number of what
one might call "standard" versions, for example number of passenger
seats or number of crew positions. Indonesia for example bought Boeing
aircraft with only two crew positions when other companies were buying
three crew configurations.

And once you buy the thing, test flown and accepted, the aircraft
belongs to you and Boeing or Airbus no longer have anything to say
about it.


The air traffic regulator in the respective countries has a word to say
about that. They usually require maintenance per the book, per
manufacturer's instructions. There is no "Oh, let's use that aftermarket
part here because the original is too expensive". You don't follow those
rules, you lose cert. Some countries are a bit loose here and then it
can happen (and has) that the FAA prohibits their aircraft from coming
into US air space. Rightfully so.


Nope again. Yes various countries do attempt to control the quality
(for want of a better word) of aircraft flying into their country but
"after market" parts are not forbidden as innumerable different
manufacturers make airplane parts.


Only if approved for type and model. Supplemental Type Certificate or
STC. I know a little about this stuff because I am sometimes designing
electronics for aircraft and while doing that I am a consultant to third
party companies, not to an aircraft manufacturer (except once) .


What does happen is that all aircraft parts must be approved - I think
that they call it "type approved" for aircraft use - and as long as
that is documented then there is no question that it can be used.


See?

[...]


When I was in Indonesia we were approached by a group of Indonesian
Airforce people to see if we could improve the maintenance on their
helicopters. We approached the helicopter makers about parts prices
and were referred to their S.E.A. representative who, in effect, told
us to get lost as they already hade a very nice arrangement to sell
parts to the Indonesian air force at prices much higher then they were
selling to private helicopter companies in the region.


It does not explain a 5-10x factor between US and Chinese shipping
costs. There is more going on, way deeper than equipment-related.


Firstly you are saying "shipping costs" which imply moving substantial
amounts of freight, trans-oceanic, by air or sea which is determined
primarily by supply and demand, when what you are talking about is
sending mail, rates for which is determined by the government of the
country in which the mail is posted.


Mail = shipping. When some buys a bearing for a vehcile front wheel or
whatever in China it must be shipped. They generally use China Post for
that. Which charges a small fractions of the cost to the shipper as the
US Post Office does in the other direction. _That_ is the problem. This
was greatly aggravated by the stupid decision to no longer offer surface
mail overseas.


Yes, because China is subsidizing the cost of shipping. Neither this president nor this administration is going to subsidize your shipping overseas. Not with USPS sucking-dry the general fund.

And why should I, the American public (I'm putting on my MAGA hat), pay more taxes to lower the cost of your shipping to China? You should pay what it costs and pass it on as a business expense. Or, as in the case of real businesses, you ship via container and pay the charge.

The easy way of equalizing the imbalance is to apply a tariff to incoming Chinese goods equal to the difference in shipping costs. Hey, maybe I'll give that idea to The Donald the next time I see him on the golf course. The answer is not making shipping cheap for you and causing the USPS to swirl further down the deficit drain.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #77  
Old September 27th 17, 09:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Buying and Selling

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 10:10:07 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-27 08:46, wrote:

A rather large aerospace firm emailed that they want to put me on
their officially approved engineering list. I said yes though I'm not
about to move and they do have some facilities in the bay area.


Being on a list doesn't always result in real assignments though.

My requirement is that I can do consulting (design) work right here. The
occasional trip to a client for EMC compliance work and such is fine but
I will not move there. Most can be done remotely now. I just came off a
lengthy debug session where for the most part we used the Zoom
conference service and I could see their oscilloscope live, as well as
the board schematics, layout and code. That way it was easy to talk
their engineer through the measurements and derive conclusions about
what needs to be changed. This is one of those cases that would have
required a trip to Texas in the olden days. No more.


Well the kind of money they were talking means a role in management and it's pretty difficult to do that from a distance.

I keep getting job offerings that I apply for. I never hear anything
from them and then a couple of months later the same job shows up.
What in the hell do you think that is? This has been going on with
the same jobs for months.


Unfortunately this is normal these days. Sometimes companies want to
create an image in public that everything is going gangbusters there, by
bloviating that they are hiring like crazy. So you sometimes see job ads
for jobs that aren't really there.


That must be what's going on then. In this area they are getting sick with jobs for electric car control and self driving cars that all operate over the Internet. There's no way I'm getting involved in any of that. Let the millennials live and die by their own stupidity.
  #78  
Old September 27th 17, 09:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Buying and Selling

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 11:37:46 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 7:18:35 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-26 19:39, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 07:26:12 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-25 19:23, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 07:06:25 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-24 17:01, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 07:34:50 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-23 20:52, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:15:14 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-22 19:03, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 12:36:31 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote:
On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote:

On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote:

snip

Or the brake pads from China, $2/pair and free ship. As I have always
said the postage fees are grossly lopsided between Asia and the US and
that is one of the core reasosn for our trade deficit. Except that most
politicians (except manybe one ...) do not understand that..

It's an international reciprocal postal treaty that no one worried about
when it was mainly U.S. residents of Chinese descent sending packages to
relatives in China.


More than a decade ago tyat has changed, big time. How long does it take
for politicians to turn on their brains? Or for some of them, do they
even have one?


... The origin country gets all the postage and the
destination country gets nothing with the assumption that the volume
will be roughly equal.

The small volume of direct-to-consumer low-value items from China is not
a core reason for the trade deficit.


It is rising, big time. I know people who buy just about anything other
than groceries on EBay. When they say "Oh, it always gets here in three
to five weeks" you know what's going on. Heck, I even had stuff I bought
on Amazon come via "China Post".


... These items would still come into
the U.S. through other channels, at higher prices, were it not so cheap
to do international shipping from China, you'd just have a middleman.


Same reason. The stuff then comes in bulk but the shipping charges are
grossly lower than if a US vendor sent the same items to Asia. It isn't
just China. For example, when we needed name tags for our therapy dogs'
vests (for nursing home visits) we ordered them via Amazon. A small
package arrived from Manila, Philippines. I couldn't believe it
considering that we had paid just a few Dollars. Looked at the postage,
calculated - $0.60. Airmail! It came from a seamstress who appears to
specialize in cloth name tags. The shipping cost discrepancy alone puts
similar seamstresses in the US out of business.

Given that the cost of living, and salaries, are as much as five times
cheaper in China than in the U.S. how is changing the mailing costs
going to effect sales?


The ships and aircraft aren't going to be operable at five times less.

Certainly ships are noticeably cheaper to operate if they are NOT U.S.
flag vessels. Aircraft? I'm not sure but I would bet that crew costs
are noticeably cheaper and almost certainly maintenance costs are
cheaper and I would guess if a national carrier in China that fuel
costs are also cheaper.


Nope. They pretty much pay international (for example Singapore) prices:

http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch....ID=18116&LANG=

China Post flies Boeing and I can hardly imagine that they get spare
parts and service a whole lot cheaper than anyone else whose fleet
consist of Boeing aircraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Postal_Airlines

You seem to assume that Boeing parts are all that enter into
maintaining an airplane. Wrong. The engines, for example, can be
overhauled and labour, facilities and equipment are a large part of
the cost of the overhaul. The airframe maintenance is also largely a
matter of facilities, labour and equipment.


Ah yes, and of course Rolls-Royce sells their engine parts and service
to the Chinese at an 80% discount ...

To be honest I don't know how Rolls sells their jet engines but I do
know that the U.S. engine makers sold their engines to the USAF much
cheaper then they sold the same engines to commercial users.


The Pentagon will get the usual qualtity discount but not 80-90%. With
China Post (and many others) versus USPS we are talking factors of 5:1
to 10:1 here. That difference is not found in the equipment.

Nope, according to the GE rep the USAF got their engines cheaper
because they did not demand any form of guarantee.


How _much_ cheaper?


But I am sure that you know that jet engines are manufactured in
China? CFN International, a joint venture between GE and SAFRAN Group.
CFM has already delivered 20,000 engines over four decades, making it
the most popular airline jet engine ever. In fact, a CFM-powered
airplane takes off every 2.5 seconds.

Perhaps they aren't using Rolls engines :-)


No, but they aren't selling the engines and the service for 1/10th of
the price.



Hey! I was in the business of maintaining airplanes for my uncle for
20 years and the normal maintenance manpower for a fleet of airplanes
was several hundred people. All of whom are five times cheaper in
China, and the equipment, tools maintenance stands, buildings, all
cheaper in China.


Your uncle probably didn't fly Boeings or Airbuses internationally..
Those companies require quite strict procedures or they will call off
all bets.

Nope. The companies that make airplanes usually offer a number of what
one might call "standard" versions, for example number of passenger
seats or number of crew positions. Indonesia for example bought Boeing
aircraft with only two crew positions when other companies were buying
three crew configurations.

And once you buy the thing, test flown and accepted, the aircraft
belongs to you and Boeing or Airbus no longer have anything to say
about it.


The air traffic regulator in the respective countries has a word to say
about that. They usually require maintenance per the book, per
manufacturer's instructions. There is no "Oh, let's use that aftermarket
part here because the original is too expensive". You don't follow those
rules, you lose cert. Some countries are a bit loose here and then it
can happen (and has) that the FAA prohibits their aircraft from coming
into US air space. Rightfully so.


Nope again. Yes various countries do attempt to control the quality
(for want of a better word) of aircraft flying into their country but
"after market" parts are not forbidden as innumerable different
manufacturers make airplane parts.


Only if approved for type and model. Supplemental Type Certificate or
STC. I know a little about this stuff because I am sometimes designing
electronics for aircraft and while doing that I am a consultant to third
party companies, not to an aircraft manufacturer (except once) .


What does happen is that all aircraft parts must be approved - I think
that they call it "type approved" for aircraft use - and as long as
that is documented then there is no question that it can be used.


See?

[...]


When I was in Indonesia we were approached by a group of Indonesian
Airforce people to see if we could improve the maintenance on their
helicopters. We approached the helicopter makers about parts prices
and were referred to their S.E.A. representative who, in effect, told
us to get lost as they already hade a very nice arrangement to sell
parts to the Indonesian air force at prices much higher then they were
selling to private helicopter companies in the region.


It does not explain a 5-10x factor between US and Chinese shipping
costs. There is more going on, way deeper than equipment-related.

Firstly you are saying "shipping costs" which imply moving substantial
amounts of freight, trans-oceanic, by air or sea which is determined
primarily by supply and demand, when what you are talking about is
sending mail, rates for which is determined by the government of the
country in which the mail is posted.


Mail = shipping. When some buys a bearing for a vehcile front wheel or
whatever in China it must be shipped. They generally use China Post for
that. Which charges a small fractions of the cost to the shipper as the
US Post Office does in the other direction. _That_ is the problem. This
was greatly aggravated by the stupid decision to no longer offer surface
mail overseas.


Yes, because China is subsidizing the cost of shipping. Neither this president nor this administration is going to subsidize your shipping overseas.. Not with USPS sucking-dry the general fund.

And why should I, the American public (I'm putting on my MAGA hat), pay more taxes to lower the cost of your shipping to China? You should pay what it costs and pass it on as a business expense. Or, as in the case of real businesses, you ship via container and pay the charge.

The easy way of equalizing the imbalance is to apply a tariff to incoming Chinese goods equal to the difference in shipping costs. Hey, maybe I'll give that idea to The Donald the next time I see him on the golf course. The answer is not making shipping cheap for you and causing the USPS to swirl further down the deficit drain.


Unlike your hero, Trump actually listens to the public as you will discover much to Hillary's displeasure pretty shortly.
  #79  
Old September 28th 17, 02:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Buying and Selling

On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 08:34:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 6:58:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 06:36:12 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 7:53:43 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 15:50:54 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/25/2017 2:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-25 08:03, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/25/2017 9:06 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-24 17:01, John B. wrote:
24 Sep Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-23 20:52, John B. wrote:
23 Sep Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-22 19:03, John B. wrote:
22 Sep Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote:
On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote:
On 2017-09-19 07:06,
wrote:

snip

-snip snip-

Hey! I was in the business of maintaining airplanes for my
uncle for
20 years and the normal maintenance manpower for a fleet
of airplanes
was several hundred people. All of whom are five times
cheaper in
China, and the equipment, tools maintenance stands,
buildings, all
cheaper in China.


Your uncle probably didn't fly Boeings or Airbuses
internationally. Those companies require quite strict
procedures or they will call off all bets.

-more snip-

USAF, Navy, Marines & SAC fly LOTS of miles/hours.
(no Airbus hardware!)


Which of them has their aircraft serviced by a low cost shop
in China or elsewhere?


Mr Slocumb might elaborate but I bet no facility staffed by
Uncle Sam's enlisted military, anywhere, is 'low cost'.

Having observed some of the civilian "feather merchants" that inhabit
the military system I suggest that perhaps, disregarding the physical
installation, the Military might be the lower cost :-)

But in a more sober vein the Military works on a budget system. the
Defense Department allocates so much money to a Unit for, say aircraft
fuel, and the Unit is then tasked with using all that fuel, as the
byword in any government agency is "Never, Never under spend your
budget!"

The theory being that if you don't use all the money this year you
will get less next year.

First you give us the interesting theory that the Air Force doesn't do preventative maintenance (if it ain't broke don't fix it) followed by hundreds of Chinese "overhauling" F4's. I must say that at least your ideas are novel.


Quite the contrary. The Air force did come up with a program which
THEY referred to as "if it isn't broke don't fix it" which referred to
the "time change" items, mostly engine components, that were changed
on an hours of use basis rather than on a does it work basis. The
result was both an increase in the hours flown/hours maintenance ratio
as well as a reduction in the time required for the various scheduled
inspection times.

The "overhaul" facility I mentioned in Taiwan, effectively took an F-4
apart and rebuilt it completely. Even the hydraulic hoses and tubing
were replaced.


I don't know what Air Force you were in but in mine all mission critical items were replaced on schedules. Maybe you were talking about the food in the mess halls?


I certainly agree that "my" Air Force must have been different than
"your" Air Force. Even your use of the term "mission critical" is a
term I never heard used in reference to aircraft maintenance from 1952
until 1972.

But in the early 1960's SAC did initiate a study of maintenance for
their aircraft where in every maintenance action was logged and
entered into a data base. After more than a year of study it was found
that a great many maintenance actions, specifically time change of,
mainly, engine components was accomplishing nothing in terms of
aircraft availability.

In fact, in one case I remember it was found that time change of
alternators and base rebuilding was actually detrimental to the
service life of the alternators.

You have made statement several times that could be taken to mean that
you served in the Military but when I asked you what your position
was, enlisted, commissioned, flying, ground pounder, you never seem to
answer.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #80  
Old September 28th 17, 02:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Buying and Selling

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 6:57:18 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
You have made statement several times that could be taken to mean that
you served in the Military but when I asked you what your position
was, enlisted, commissioned, flying, ground pounder, you never seem to
answer.


There's that alzheimers of yours acting up again. I told you I was E3 in a maintenance squadron. But like your claim that Britannia ruled the North American continent, it is always convenient to forget some things. Such as France and Spain.
 




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