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  #21  
Old August 29th 14, 03:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Light works

$400 ? OR LESS...ColCycle isnot Nicole's Bargian Basement...those endure racer lights work...which is the idea.

the dynamo devils continue ignoring negatives on front wheel weight...where grams were fought over, adding a generator elevates discussion bet=yond grams to watts/amps.volts

I guess the DD go faster cooler with more pounds. Hell with handling and response.

I can see I can see I can see....

replace wires as maintenance....6mm grade 5 racks bolts here need replacement every 2-3 years or shafts fall off inboard frame holes.

batteries innards are held in a shock absorbing gel I( I assume)

500 more grams at the bottom of a front suspension does what ?
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  #22  
Old August 29th 14, 04:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Light works

On 8/29/2014 10:34 AM, jbeattie wrote:

I don't know if a hub dynamo is a good thing on a mountain bike and defer to

those who use them. Personally, I wouldn't bother with one because of
all the
wiring and additional crap on my bike that would get infrequent use,
being that
night trail riding is not something I would do often. A battery light
would be
a more reasonable option, and I could simply shift a light from my road
bike
for trail riding. I also wonder whether a dynamo would put out enough light
when I was picking my way up forested single track at 4mph. It seems to add
so much complexity without a real pay-off. The calculus is different on a
commuter that gets a lot of night time use.

Regarding single track at 4 mph, my experience last week (when I did
that with my utility road bike in our forest preserve) was fine.
Admittedly, I didn't pay much attention to my precise speed, but it was
certainly slow. The trails I rode were true single track, bumpy and
rooty, and I was on 28mm road tires.

The complexity issue is actually a trade-off. Some people prefer the
"complexity" of having a dynamo on each bike, and never having to worry
about having light when it's needed. Other people prefer the complexity
of remembering to keep batteries topped up, of installing and removing
lights, and occasionally dealing with having no lights when schedules or
procedures fail.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #23  
Old August 29th 14, 04:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
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Posts: 1,346
Default Light works

Frank Krygowski wrote:

:As I've said before, if the "more is always necessary" rationale for
:headlights were applied to other bicycle equipment, we'd all be on
:motorcycle spokes and tires. Bicycle design is about efficiency and
:elegance, except for most headlights. Then it switches to sledgehammer
:mentality.

Night trail riding is one place where you really can't have too much
light. There are obstacles at all altitudes, and there tend to be
lots of twists and turns, and sudden drop offs. It's ahrd enough to
see everything in daylight. A dynmo isn't going to cut it. (and I
have dynmo lights on all my bikes.)


--
sig 16
  #24  
Old August 29th 14, 04:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Light works

On 8/28/2014 11:18 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Joerg wrote:
wrote:
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_112922/article.html


So when do bike accessory manufacturers finally wake up and build
something like this? Why do things take so long with bicycles?

Until now all the lights I've tried and seen are between "barely bright
enough" and utter junk.



B&M Luxos U is looking pretty good so far, although I haven't taken it out
for a night ride yet and I'm still wrestling with mounting.


I'm just curious - what's your issue with mounting?


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #25  
Old August 29th 14, 05:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Light works

James wrote:
On 29/08/14 09:55, Joerg wrote:
James wrote:
On 29/08/14 08:27, Joerg wrote:


Europeans use hub dynamos a lot. It would be possible but difficult on
my mountain bike because it has a serious disc brake up front. I'd
be ok
with a central Li-Ion battery if some company made a better holder than
those flimsy Velcro thingies.

Maybe take a look here...
http://www.sp-dynamo.com/8Xseriesdynamo%20hub.html


When I win the lottery :-)


Is it really that much?


Yes, plus it weighs a pound or so and the unsuspended parts of a vehicle
should be as lighht as possible. Unless the weight is mission-critical
such as in brake discs where I wish they wouldn't put holes in them.


I think Schmidt and Sons in Germany makes something like this but then
you be looking at 100 Euros plus labor. I really don't like to do
spokes. Have done it but hated it.


Mine (SP PV-8) was about $150AUD delivered.

Ah, c'mon, front wheel spokes are easy.


On a MTB they must be super tight. That's where the lion's share of the
brake force during a gnarly downhill section goes into.


I'd rather have a central battery where you can get a ton of capacity at
same weight. Then the bike can power lights and other gear even at
standstill, like during breaks. For example, when a friend discovered a
cave we were able to take the light off my bike and crawl in. I know, I
know, thou shalt not do that ...



I'll raise your tonne of capacity for, well, infinite capacity while the
wheels keep turning ;-)


A dynamo sure would be nice but I'd still like to have a sizeable
battery. On an MTB you are often crawling up a very steep incline and
you really do not want your lights to extinguish 1/3rd of the way up. A
dynamo isn't going to produce at 2mph.


For night rides on the MTB, I'd take a strap on head torch.

BTW, most good dynamo headlights have a stand light that keeps the light
going for 4-5 minutes at half strength when you stop. If it runs out,
spin the front wheel a few times to charge the internal capacitor again.


The lights I've seen were all plastic and/or on skinny brackets, those
on the Lumotec lights would never survive. I need something that will
survive even if a rock the size of a fist smacks to it. Happens a lot.
Like Tuesday, barreled down a trail to get home, front wheel squished
off a rock that size, it ricocheted from somewhere ... *KANGGG* ...
smack-dab between my right foot and crank. I stopped and it was still
cradled there. Took a chunk out of the crank and my shoe. Earlier this
summer one ricocheted off and crashed into the handlebar. Then there's
the rocks kicked up by other riders. And the occasional thick Manzanita
branch.


The IQ-Tec Premium light I use has a heavy steel bracket and sturdy
body.

http://www.xxcycle.com/busch-and-muller-cyo-premium-front-light-iq-tec-p-80-lux-1752qsndi-04,,en.php



That's the ones I had seen. On a mountain bike there is really nothing
you could fasten it do, you'd have to buy or build a clamp bracket. This
kind of U-shape carrier will not hold up, it'll get bent real soon.


This then.. http://www.starbike.com/en/son-edelux-2-led-front-lamp/


Seems to come without bracket. They need to offer with bracket. The
light is super expensive as it is (would be over US$200) and then I'd
expect not to have to build any missing stuff myself. Also, I hope that
black ring in back ain't plastic or it won't survive.



The enclosure itself needs to be metal, aircraft aluminum or something
similar. I've even broken ABS.


http://www.starbike.com/p/Supernova-...QaAqq58 P8HAQ


My MTBing must be very tame. I haven't broken anything for ages. Maybe
I'm just more careful.


I've got my FS for about 1/2 year now. So far:

Main suspension pivot came loose.
Freewheel is almost toast.
Saddle broke.
Left fork seal seems to be going.
Ticking noise from BB area, hoping it's just the pedals.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #26  
Old August 29th 14, 05:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
ian field
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Posts: 1,008
Default Light works



"Joerg" wrote in message
...
Ian Field wrote:


"Joerg" wrote in message
...
wrote:
not so.....night riders in the park are seen with midlevel systems
both on bike and helmet....good enough for 25 mph on pavement.


25mph on pavement ... yawn

What I meant is something that also holds up at 25mph on a bone-rattling
trail. Like it does on cars. No super-expensive boutiques stuff, regular
affordable gear, just like on cars or motorcycles.

I use such trails regularly also for commutes and pretty soon it'll be
dark when I get back. So right now I sometimes have three different
lighting systems front an back in order to be able to switch to the next
after one fails.



http://goo.gl/IPoGVq


Those links don't work here, produce just a blank page.


You could have the about blank infection - some pages open with "blank
page" in the title bar.

Something to do with hijacking peoples browsers and getting a fee for
every re-directed search.



No, definitely not, then you'd land on a site you did not click on. But


IME; that's never happened - you just get a blank page titled: about blank.

I've no idea how its supposed to earn the perpetrator money, but it grows
its roots into the registry like a fungus!

The only way I've ever got rid of it is with a DOD wipe of the boot drive.

  #27  
Old August 29th 14, 05:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
ian field
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Posts: 1,008
Default Light works



"Joerg" wrote in message
...
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, August 28, 2014 12:58:45 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
wrote:

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_112922/article.html




So when do bike accessory manufacturers finally wake up and build
something like this? Why do things take so long with bicycles?

Until now all the lights I've tried and seen are between "barely bright
enough" and utter junk.


Some of us use hub dynamos and good quality LED headlights. My utility
bike
has a Shimano hub dynamo and a Busch & Muller headlight. It gives me
plenty of light. It does a great job of illuminating the road, with a
nice even beam, and I can see it illuminating stop signs nearly a quarter
mile away.

The setup isn't cheap. I paid about $65 for the hub, and the headlight
was
a $100 Christmas gift. (I built up the wheel myself.) But I don't
expect
to have to replace the setup for the next ten years. To me, it's worth
the expense. Certainly, it would be cheaper if it were standard
equipment
on every bike; but we have to face the facts, that most people in
westernized countries use bikes as daytime toys. They wouldn't want to
spend the money for a headlight they'd seldom or never use.

While this is a road bike, last week I used it after dark to inspect some
work we'd recently done in our local forest preserve. I don't know
whether
it would work on a wooded off-road trail at 25 mph, but it allowed me to
do fine on the single track trails I was riding at much lower speed.


Europeans use hub dynamos a lot. It would be possible but difficult on
my mountain bike because it has a serious disc brake up front. I'd be ok
with a central Li-Ion battery if some company made a better holder than
those flimsy Velcro thingies.


Get a really big one and clamp it in the drink holder with a jubilee clip.

  #28  
Old August 29th 14, 05:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Light works

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/28/2014 9:06 PM, jbeattie wrote:


I would think the bigger issue(s) on a mountain bike would be (1)
electric

wire fatigue with suspension forks, (2) axle and internal failures on
big hit
bikes, (3) no stand light, and (4) less options for a bright light
(SuperNova
is about it apart from some of the Chinese products).



Do you know any really bright (as in 2W LED) tail light that can be
externally powered, won't cost an arm and a leg, and is "trail-rated"
for gnarly MTB use?



I really wonder how much beating the internals can take -- maybe it's
a lot.

I don't do a lot of trail riding at night, but my choice would be a
light that
works when the bike is stopped and that I can use to see my wounds.

I guess one can always hypothesize unsolvable problems.


Going up a steep hill on a MTB where a dynamo does not produce isn't
really a hypothetical problem.


1) Wire fatigue is eminently controllable through fairly simple design.
After all, off-road motorcycles do have wires. 2) Front axles break...
really, how often? 3) Tons of modern LED headlights feature
standlights. 4) How much light do we really need anyway?

As I've said before, if the "more is always necessary" rationale for
headlights were applied to other bicycle equipment, we'd all be on
motorcycle spokes and tires. Bicycle design is about efficiency and
elegance, except for most headlights. Then it switches to sledgehammer
mentality.


Oh, not just there. I for one do not like the flimsy brake pads that
bikes have. I just wore out a pair at a measly 500mi.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #29  
Old August 29th 14, 05:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Light works

Lou Holtman wrote:
Joerg schreef op 29-8-2014 0:27:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, August 28, 2014 12:58:45 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
wrote:

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_112922/article.html




So when do bike accessory manufacturers finally wake up and build
something like this? Why do things take so long with bicycles?

Until now all the lights I've tried and seen are between "barely bright
enough" and utter junk.

Some of us use hub dynamos and good quality LED headlights. My
utility bike
has a Shimano hub dynamo and a Busch & Muller headlight. It gives me
plenty of light. It does a great job of illuminating the road, with a
nice even beam, and I can see it illuminating stop signs nearly a
quarter
mile away.

The setup isn't cheap. I paid about $65 for the hub, and the
headlight was
a $100 Christmas gift. (I built up the wheel myself.) But I don't
expect
to have to replace the setup for the next ten years. To me, it's worth
the expense. Certainly, it would be cheaper if it were standard
equipment
on every bike; but we have to face the facts, that most people in
westernized countries use bikes as daytime toys. They wouldn't want to
spend the money for a headlight they'd seldom or never use.

While this is a road bike, last week I used it after dark to inspect
some
work we'd recently done in our local forest preserve. I don't know
whether
it would work on a wooded off-road trail at 25 mph, but it allowed me to
do fine on the single track trails I was riding at much lower speed.


Europeans use hub dynamos a lot. It would be possible but difficult on
my mountain bike because it has a serious disc brake up front. I'd be ok
with a central Li-Ion battery if some company made a better holder than
those flimsy Velcro thingies.

The lights I've seen were all plastic and/or on skinny brackets, those
on the Lumotec lights would never survive. I need something that will
survive even if a rock the size of a fist smacks to it. Happens a lot.
Like Tuesday, barreled down a trail to get home, front wheel squished
off a rock that size, it ricocheted from somewhere ... *KANGGG* ...
smack-dab between my right foot and crank. I stopped and it was still
cradled there. Took a chunk out of the crank and my shoe. Earlier this
summer one ricocheted off and crashed into the handlebar. Then there's
the rocks kicked up by other riders. And the occasional thick Manzanita
branch.



You have to realize that your commute route is far from usual.


Not in the Netherlands but in some parts of the world that is usual :-)

Even in your area it can be. I lived in your country for six years, in
Zuid Limburg. I rode over into Belgium a lot and over there we had lots
of remote and rugged mountainous paths that people used as shortcuts.
Many times I almost cussed my dynamo-driven lights because uphill they
produced so little light that I had to hop off the bike and walk it,
mostly to avoid doing an endo in a pothole that I didn't see.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #30  
Old August 29th 14, 05:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Light works

On 8/29/2014 12:20 PM, Joerg wrote: Lou Holtman wrote:


You have to realize that your commute route is far from usual.


Not in the Netherlands but in some parts of the world that is usual :-)

Even in your area it can be. I lived in your country for six years, in
Zuid Limburg. I rode over into Belgium a lot and over there we had lots
of remote and rugged mountainous paths that people used as shortcuts.
Many times I almost cussed my dynamo-driven lights because uphill they
produced so little light that I had to hop off the bike and walk it,
mostly to avoid doing an endo in a pothole that I didn't see.


On one tour, my wife, my daughter and I passed through the Paw Paw
tunnel on the C&O Canal Towpath Trail. This is on the border between
Maryland and West Virginia.

We had dynamo halogen lights, driven by bottom bracket or roller
generators. The tunnel is long and dark, and the pathway for bicycles
was narrow, rough and wet. The canal through the tunnel is filled with
water.

My daughter and I found that we had just enough light to see our path if
we kept our riding speed up above about maybe 8 mph. In fact, the path's
roughness made my speed rise and fall, so my light's brightness rose and
fell as I rode. My wife wasn't willing to do that, so she took out a
flashlight and walked the length of the tunnel.

But as I said, that was with equipment that would now be considered a
bit old fashioned. Modern LED headlights put out much more light at
very low speeds, and most have standlights that put out light even when
stopped. If we had modern lights, I doubt we'd have had a problem at all.

That's not to say they are perfect for all riding. But I think the slow
speed problem is often exaggerated.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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