MBC Shogun or Shogun Metro SE

I'm about to buy a hybrid and I've set myself a limit of $500 for the bike
proper. MBC Prahran have two Shoguns that fit the bill, the MBC Shogun 27
speed and the Shogun Metro SE (both at
http://www.bikes.com.au/enter.html?t...04_Shogun.html).
The differences seem to my uneducated eye to be fairly minimal:

1. 27 speed v 24 speed. I really don't give a rat's arse about the extra
12.5% gears but the guy in the shop said they were more "professional".
2. The 27 speed has suspension front forks. Are they actually useful
around town or are they just another thing to go wrong?
3. The SE had a weird looking Tioga seat, like it had a big split down the
middle. It supposedly give blokes some necessary relief in the nether
regions. Do these saddles work?

Any and all advice appreciated.

SPECS:

MBC Shogun 27 speed ($799 discounted to $499):

Frame: Alloy Shogun Frame.
Fork: SR Suntour CR880 AL suspension fork.
Brakes: Tektro V brakes with Shimano Deore levers.
Drivetrain: Shimano Alivio front & Shimano Deore rear derailleurs; Shimano
Deore shifters, Shimano cranks.
Wheels: Alloy rims & Formula Alloy hubs with quick release & stainless steel
spokes.
Freewheel: 9 speed cassette.
Extras: Alloy suspension seat post; non slip pedals & Tioga comfort seat.

Shogun Metro SE ($459):

Frame: Light Alloy Frame.
Fork: Rigid steel fork
Brakes: Tektro V brakes with Shimano levers.
Drivetrain: Shimano Alivio derailleurs; Shimano Rapid Fire shifters, Shimano
cranks.
Wheels: Alex X101 Alloy rims & Alloy hubs with quick release & stainless
steel spokes.
Freewheel: Suntour 8 speed 11- 28T
Extras: Alloy suspension seat post; non slip pedals; Velco* comfort seat.

*The one's on the shop floor had Tioga seats.

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On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:24:59 +1100, "DRS"
wrote:

I'm about to buy a hybrid and I've set myself a limit of $500 for the bike
proper. MBC Prahran have two Shoguns that fit the bill, the MBC Shogun 27
speed and the Shogun Metro SE (both at
http://www.bikes.com.au/enter.html?t...04_Shogun.html).
The differences seem to my uneducated eye to be fairly minimal:

1. 27 speed v 24 speed. I really don't give a rat's arse about the extra
12.5% gears but the guy in the shop said they were more "professional".

Go the 24 speed. 27 doesn't make much difference for general use. It
can be fussier when adjusting the derailer though.

2. The 27 speed has suspension front forks. Are they actually useful
around town or are they just another thing to go wrong?

For that price, suspensions forks are not really worth it. Spend the
money on a good frame instead.
---
DFM

Deep Freud Moors wrote in
message
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:24:59 +1100, "DRS"
wrote:

I'm about to buy a hybrid and I've set myself a limit of $500 for
the bike proper. MBC Prahran have two Shoguns that fit the bill,
the MBC Shogun 27 speed and the Shogun Metro SE (both at

http://www.bikes.com.au/enter.html?t...04_Shogun.html).
The differences seem to my uneducated eye to be fairly minimal:

[...]

2. The 27 speed has suspension front forks. Are they actually
useful around town or are they just another thing to go wrong?

For that price, suspensions forks are not really worth it. Spend the
money on a good frame instead.

You've got me utterly confused. I mean, the forks either work or they
don't, and given the bike has been ostensibly discounted by about 40% I
don't where any extra money is coming from.

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DRS:

1. 27 speed v 24 speed. I really don't give a rat's arse about the extra
12.5% gears but the guy in the shop said they were more "professional".

When you get told that kind of blurb, it's usually a good indication NOT
to go for it. I don't ever use all the gear combinations on my 27-speed
bikes, so as far as function goes either will be suitable. I think
8-speed components might be a tad cheaper than 9-speed these days, such
as chains and cassettes so that might be more advantageous.

2. The 27 speed has suspension front forks. Are they actually useful
around town or are they just another thing to go wrong?

Cheap forks usually are pretty simple devices, with springs but no (or
ineffective) damping. These usually require minimal maintenance and are
pretty hardy. If you like a springy front to take the edge off road
bumps, then go for it but bear in mind that without damping, bob might
be more of an effect on climbs.

3. The SE had a weird looking Tioga seat, like it had a big split down the
middle. It supposedly give blokes some necessary relief in the nether
regions. Do these saddles work?

You just have to try it out, or have the shop swap it for another. I
hear really good jokes which pass for "true" anecdotes on this type of
saddle, the best one so far being how one guy (a friend of a friend of a
friend, of course) supposedly got his sensitive parts wedged in the hole
while riding and how he needed help to extricate himself from his bike.
Jokes, all of them.

Any and all advice appreciated.

The most important thing you need to consider is fit; the frame needs to
be the right size for you. Everything else can be adjusted/replaced.

Jose Rizal wrote in message
.net
DRS:

1. 27 speed v 24 speed. I really don't give a rat's arse about the
extra
12.5% gears but the guy in the shop said they were more
"professional".

When you get told that kind of blurb, it's usually a good indication
NOT to go for it. I don't ever use all the gear combinations on my
27-speed bikes, so as far as function goes either will be suitable.
I think 8-speed components might be a tad cheaper than 9-speed these
days, such as chains and cassettes so that might be more advantageous.

Oh, around town I don't expect to ever use 27 gears. I never used all 21 on
the bike I had 10 years ago and probably would never have used all 10 if I'd
had a 10 speed as a kid. But I was wondering if more "professional" meant
something in terms of the quality that would make a difference in the long
run. IOW, are the Deore shifters qualitatively superior to the RapidFire
shifters, that sort of thing. The www.shimano.com.au isn't much help here,
I'm afraid. I mean, we're talking an ostensibly $799 (discounted a whopping
40%) bike v a $459 bike. I don't know enough to know whether the RRP has
been artificially inflated to make the discount look good or whether the
parts really are that much better.

2. The 27 speed has suspension front forks. Are they actually
useful around town or are they just another thing to go wrong?

Cheap forks usually are pretty simple devices, with springs but no (or
ineffective) damping. These usually require minimal maintenance and
are pretty hardy. If you like a springy front to take the edge off
road bumps, then go for it but bear in mind that without damping, bob
might be more of an effect on climbs.

The Suntour CR880 specs can be seen at
http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/tec...66&modelyear=2.
If I read them right there's no damping. I wonder how much difference
altering the preload would have.

3. The SE had a weird looking Tioga seat, like it had a big split
down the middle. It supposedly give blokes some necessary relief in
the nether regions. Do these saddles work?

You just have to try it out, or have the shop swap it for another. I
hear really good jokes which pass for "true" anecdotes on this type of
saddle, the best one so far being how one guy (a friend of a friend
of a friend, of course) supposedly got his sensitive parts wedged in
the hole while riding and how he needed help to extricate himself
from his bike. Jokes, all of them.

It's damned hard to find a decent image (not even the Tioga web site has
one). http://www.bicycleshop.com.au/images/procomfort.jpg is as good as
I've managed to find. You can just see the split runing from the rear about
two-thirds the way forward. What's not so clear is the, for want of a
better term, ventilation shaft running from underneath the front up into the
split, presumably to stop the boys from overheating.

Any and all advice appreciated.

The most important thing you need to consider is fit; the frame needs
to be the right size for you. Everything else can be
adjusted/replaced.

Is there a way of relating frame size to height? I'm 178cm/5'10". BTW, I
think the guy said something about a Merida frame. Does that make sense for
a Shogun bike?

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Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

DRS:

But I was wondering if more "professional" meant
something in terms of the quality that would make a difference in the long
run. IOW, are the Deore shifters qualitatively superior to the RapidFire
shifters, that sort of thing. The www.shimano.com.au isn't much help here,
I'm afraid.

Rapidfire is Shimano-speak for their line of click shifters. Most of
their shifter range (Deore, Alivio etc) are Rapidfire. I'd guess that
the Metro shifters are Alivio Rapidfire, the other Deore Rapidfire.

In terms of the range spectrum, you can have a better idea at
http://www.shimano-europe.com/cycling/
This is a much more informative site than any of Shimano's other sites.

You'll see that for 8-speeds Alivio is the top of the range, while in
9-speeds Deore is the bottom of the range.

I mean, we're talking an ostensibly $799 (discounted a whopping
40%) bike v a $459 bike. I don't know enough to know whether the RRP has
been artificially inflated to make the discount look good or whether the
parts really are that much better.

8-speed drivetrains are usually cheaper than 9-speeds (which isn't
necessarily a reflection of poorer quality). The suspension fork will
also have bumped up the original price of the 9-speeder. I think the
9-speeder is better value, provided the fit is correct.

The Suntour CR880 specs can be seen at
http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/tec...66&modelyear=2.
If I read them right there's no damping. I wonder how much difference
altering the preload would have.

Not much, probably. I've had cheap RST and RockShox forks with preload
adjustments, and these provided little effect on spring rates.

Is there a way of relating frame size to height? I'm 178cm/5'10".

Not if you want to achieve a good fit. Things to consider are your limb
and torso measurements. There are fitting programs available on the
web; look at
http://www.cyclemetrics.com/Pages/Fi..._fit_links.htm

Some charge for either the software or manual interpretation of
measurements, but some are free. I've read some good feedback on the
wrenchscience.com fitter for specific bikes.

BTW, I
think the guy said something about a Merida frame. Does that make sense for
a Shogun bike?

He probably mentioned that Shogun frames are made by Merida, or the
other way around. Regardless, Shoguns are generally good value bikes.

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 03:31:04 +1100, "DRS"
wrote:

Deep Freud Moors wrote in
message
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:24:59 +1100, "DRS"
wrote:

I'm about to buy a hybrid and I've set myself a limit of $500 for
the bike proper. MBC Prahran have two Shoguns that fit the bill,
the MBC Shogun 27 speed and the Shogun Metro SE (both at

http://www.bikes.com.au/enter.html?t...04_Shogun.html).
The differences seem to my uneducated eye to be fairly minimal:

[...]

2. The 27 speed has suspension front forks. Are they actually
useful around town or are they just another thing to go wrong?

For that price, suspensions forks are not really worth it. Spend the
money on a good frame instead.

You've got me utterly confused. I mean, the forks either work or they
don't, and given the bike has been ostensibly discounted by about 40% I
don't where any extra money is coming from.

It was more general advice. Suspension forks cost most than regular
forks, but are not always good value. If you are getting shocks at the
expense of something else, you may be making a mistake.

As for "forks either work or they don't", perhaps you have not ridden
enough bikes with ****ty forks! I would stick with a decent pair of
regular forks instead of opting for shocks.

Keep it as simple as possible!
---
DFM

Jose Rizal wrote in message
.net
DRS:

[...]

their shifter range (Deore, Alivio etc) are Rapidfire. I'd guess that
the Metro shifters are Alivio Rapidfire, the other Deore Rapidfire.

Looks like it.

[...]

I mean, we're talking an ostensibly $799 (discounted a whopping
40%) bike v a $459 bike. I don't know enough to know whether the
RRP has been artificially inflated to make the discount look good or
whether the parts really are that much better.

8-speed drivetrains are usually cheaper than 9-speeds (which isn't
necessarily a reflection of poorer quality). The suspension fork will
also have bumped up the original price of the 9-speeder. I think the
9-speeder is better value, provided the fit is correct.

That's the sort of judgement I'm interested in. So, in your view the
9-speeder is worth the extra $40 (if not an extra $340 :-) ).

[...]

the web; look at
http://www.cyclemetrics.com/Pages/Fi..._fit_links.htm

Some charge for either the software or manual interpretation of
measurements, but some are free. I've read some good feedback on the
wrenchscience.com fitter for specific bikes.

Now I need a tape measure. :-)

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A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

I recently bought a Shogun Metro LX...

Anyway, I am really happy with the bike. I especially like the shocks
and I think it makes a big difference on the road, especially if you use
a comfort bike a little off road or you travel over briges made with
with boards or on bik paths that have a few curbs up and down..

Funny enouh tho, is that I swapped the original seat with a Tioga one
with the split (like the image someone here linked).

Works well for me, but it is up to you and your bum to make the
decision

I find a good pair of riding shorts with plenty of padding a help with
the butt tho.

if it were me, I woul go for the 27 speed bike. Its got better
components, and it seems more bang for your buck.



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Drs wrote:
I'm about to buy a hybrid and I've set myself a limit of $500 for the
bike proper. MBC Prahran have two Shoguns that fit the bill, the MBC
Shogun 27 speed and the Shogun Metro SE (both at http://www.bikes.com.a-
u/enter.html?target=BICYCLESHYBRID2004_Shogun.htmlht tp://www.bikes.com.-
au/enter.html?target=BICYCLESHYBRID2004_Shogun.html). The differences
seem to my uneducated eye to be fairly minimal:
1. 27 speed v 24 speed. I really don't give a rat's arse about the
extra
2.5% gears but the guy in the shop said they were more "professional".
3. The 27 speed has suspension front forks. Are they actually useful
around town or are they just another thing to go wrong?
4. The SE had a weird looking Tioga seat, like it had a big
split down the
middle. It supposedly give blokes some necessary relief in the nether
regions. Do these saddles work?
Any and all advice appreciated.
SPECS:
MBC Shogun 27 speed ($799 discounted to $499):
Frame: Alloy Shogun Frame. Fork: SR Suntour CR880 AL suspension fork.
Brakes: Tektro V brakes with Shimano Deore levers. Drivetrain: Shimano
Alivio front & Shimano Deore rear derailleurs; Shimano Deore shifters,
Shimano cranks. Wheels: Alloy rims & Formula Alloy hubs with quick
release & stainless steel spokes. Freewheel: 9 speed cassette. Extras:
Alloy suspension seat post; non slip pedals & Tioga comfort seat.
Shogun Metro SE ($459):
Frame: Light Alloy Frame. Fork: Rigid steel fork Brakes: Tektro V brakes
with Shimano levers. Drivetrain: Shimano Alivio derailleurs; Shimano
Rapid Fire shifters, Shimano cranks. Wheels: Alex X101 Alloy rims &
Alloy hubs with quick release & stainless steel spokes. Freewheel:
Suntour 8 speed 11- 28T Extras: Alloy suspension seat post; non slip
pedals; Velco* comfort seat.
*The one's on the shop floor had Tioga seats.
--



Forget the nuber of gears (27 v's 24) & look at the quality. I would
choose the Deore over Alivio any day. "Suspension Forks" at that price
point do nothing other that reduce road vibration & add weight, but I
think that's the point on a hybrid. A seat is a very personal choice.
Only you, or your bum, will know what's good. I've never tried the split
or vented style seat but friends who ride on them claim they're
comfortable.



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