durability of Mavic MA3s?

I've just found that a Mavic MA3 rim on one of my bikes has had a spoke
tear the rim. I've done a bit of Googling and it looks like the MA3s
of my vintage (about three years old) might not have been the most
reliable.

What should I use to replace the failed MA3? The wheel is used on a
cyclocross bike that sees rugged use. It's my heaviest road bike; it
sometimes gets ridden fairly hard over broken asphalt and dirt roads,
and has heavy Continental Travel Contact 37mm tires on it.

Are newer MA3s more reliable? Are there other more reliable rims that
would allow me to reuse the same spokes (ie, that have the same
dimensions)?

Jay S. Hill writes:

I've just found that a Mavic MA3 rim on one of my bikes has had a
spoke tear the rim. I've done a bit of Googling and it looks like
the MA3s of my vintage (about three years old) might not have been
the most reliable.

What should I use to replace the failed MA3? The wheel is used on a
cyclocross bike that sees rugged use. It's my heaviest road bike;
it sometimes gets ridden fairly hard over broken asphalt and dirt
roads, and has heavy Continental Travel Contact 37mm tires on it.

Are newer MA3s more reliable? Are there other more reliable rims
that would allow me to reuse the same spokes (ie, that have the same
dimensions)?

MA-3 rims have not changed and carry the same design weakness they
have always had. They use only eyelets and no sockets to distribute
spoke load to both inner and outer bed of the rim. This has been a
failing of these rims from their introduction and causes rim cracking
around the eyelets. I cannot imagine what Mavic was thinking when
they discontinued the MA-2 that was the standard of the wheel business
for many years with its sockets and eyelets that rarely developed rim
cracks even under the most severe off road (large stress cycle)
service.

The machinery to build the MA-2 as the extrusion dies for the profile
are neither complex nor out of the ordinary. What's the catch?

Jobst Brandt

wrote:
Jay S. Hill writes:


I've just found that a Mavic MA3 rim on one of my bikes has had a
spoke tear the rim. I've done a bit of Googling and it looks like
the MA3s of my vintage (about three years old) might not have been
the most reliable.


What should I use to replace the failed MA3? The wheel is used on a
cyclocross bike that sees rugged use. It's my heaviest road bike;
it sometimes gets ridden fairly hard over broken asphalt and dirt
roads, and has heavy Continental Travel Contact 37mm tires on it.


Are newer MA3s more reliable? Are there other more reliable rims
that would allow me to reuse the same spokes (ie, that have the same
dimensions)?


MA-3 rims have not changed and carry the same design weakness they
have always had. They use only eyelets and no sockets to distribute
spoke load to both inner and outer bed of the rim. This has been a
failing of these rims from their introduction and causes rim cracking
around the eyelets. I cannot imagine what Mavic was thinking when
they discontinued the MA-2 that was the standard of the wheel business
for many years with its sockets and eyelets that rarely developed rim
cracks even under the most severe off road (large stress cycle)
service.

but jobst, according to competent professional wheel builders on this
group, many non-eyelet rims successfully resist cracking, and of the
mavic rims, the x517 & now x717 series [including disk-specific rims]
use only single eyelet with no apparent disadvantage. the only "design
weakness" of the ma3 is that it cannot tolerate "tension as high as the
rim will bear", but that's not a mavic problem. a quick call to
888-gomavic will reveal the manufacturer spoke tension spec and the
recommended application.

regarding the ma2, that rim has been shown to crack, its eyelets rust
[i'll post pics if proof is required] and its shallow profile is very
prone to flat spots. not too light either. oh, and it doesn't have
machined brake tracks which mean that brakes cannot be fully efficient
until the brake pad has worn to fit the rim profile. all in all, i
think it's time you moved on. there's nothing more to see with the ma2.


The machinery to build the MA-2 as the extrusion dies for the profile
are neither complex nor out of the ordinary. What's the catch?

Jobst Brandt

Jay S. Hill wrote:
I've just found that a Mavic MA3 rim on one of my bikes has had a spoke
tear the rim. I've done a bit of Googling and it looks like the MA3s
of my vintage (about three years old) might not have been the most
reliable.

What should I use to replace the failed MA3? The wheel is used on a
cyclocross bike that sees rugged use. It's my heaviest road bike; it
sometimes gets ridden fairly hard over broken asphalt and dirt roads,
and has heavy Continental Travel Contact 37mm tires on it.

Are newer MA3s more reliable? Are there other more reliable rims that
would allow me to reuse the same spokes (ie, that have the same
dimensions)?

what is your spoke tension? these rims need to be built with the aid of
a tensiometer. excess tension will cause cracking just as you describe.

no known differences on ma3's over time. if you want a change, there
are plenty of other rims out there, but not many with the same effective
rim diameter [erd] so a change of rim probably means re-spoking. if you
want something more abuse tolerant, one of the mavic touring rims like
the a719 are very robust but have different erd's and probably drilling
count too.

"jim beam" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Jay S. Hill writes:


I've just found that a Mavic MA3 rim on one of my bikes has had a
spoke tear the rim. I've done a bit of Googling and it looks like
the MA3s of my vintage (about three years old) might not have been
the most reliable.


What should I use to replace the failed MA3? The wheel is used on a
cyclocross bike that sees rugged use. It's my heaviest road bike;
it sometimes gets ridden fairly hard over broken asphalt and dirt
roads, and has heavy Continental Travel Contact 37mm tires on it.


Are newer MA3s more reliable? Are there other more reliable rims
that would allow me to reuse the same spokes (ie, that have the same
dimensions)?


MA-3 rims have not changed and carry the same design weakness they
have always had. They use only eyelets and no sockets to distribute
spoke load to both inner and outer bed of the rim. This has been a
failing of these rims from their introduction and causes rim cracking
around the eyelets. I cannot imagine what Mavic was thinking when
they discontinued the MA-2 that was the standard of the wheel business
for many years with its sockets and eyelets that rarely developed rim
cracks even under the most severe off road (large stress cycle)
service.

but jobst, according to competent professional wheel builders on this
group, many non-eyelet rims successfully resist cracking, and of the mavic
rims, the x517 & now x717 series [including disk-specific rims] use only
single eyelet with no apparent disadvantage. the only "design weakness"
of the ma3 is that it cannot tolerate "tension as high as the rim will
bear", but that's not a mavic problem. a quick call to 888-gomavic will
reveal the manufacturer spoke tension spec and the recommended
application.


And away we go...



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wrote:


The machinery to build the MA-2 as the extrusion dies for the profile
are neither complex nor out of the ordinary. What's the catch?

I think that is the catch. If you have a $15 item that you mark up
100%, you make $15. If you have a $30 item that you mark up 100%, you
make $30. Manufacturers typically price on cost+ with a standard mark
up, more if it has some voodoo they can sell. If you look at the
outrageous prices on Mavic's current price list I think you'll have
your answer. Or, maybe it is just change for change's sake, i.e. for
new MBA's sake.

What do you think of
http://tinyurl.com/cjwd6
?
Note that the CD finish is only one option, it is also made in silver
anodized.

i

George King writes:

The machinery to build the MA-2 as the extrusion dies for the
profile are neither complex nor out of the ordinary. What's the
catch?

I think that is the catch. If you have a $15 item that you mark up
100%, you make $15. If you have a $30 item that you mark up 100%,
you make $30. Manufacturers typically price on cost+ with a
standard mark up, more if it has some voodoo they can sell. If you
look at the outrageous prices on Mavic's current price list I think
you'll have your answer. Or, maybe it is just change for change's
sake, i.e. for new MBA's sake.

What do you think of
http://tinyurl.com/cjwd6

That looks great. Now all I need to do is get some of these from my LBS.

Jobst Brandt

Jay S. Hill Wrote:
I've just found that a Mavic MA3 rim on one of my bikes has had a spoke
tear the rim. I've done a bit of Googling and it looks like the MA3s
of my vintage (about three years old) might not have been the most
reliable.

What should I use to replace the failed MA3? The wheel is used on a
cyclocross bike that sees rugged use. It's my heaviest road bike; it
sometimes gets ridden fairly hard over broken asphalt and dirt roads,
and has heavy Continental Travel Contact 37mm tires on it.

Are newer MA3s more reliable? Are there other more reliable rims that
would allow me to reuse the same spokes (ie, that have the same
dimensions)?
Mavic rates the MA3 for 85 kg maximum rider + gear weight while othe
standard road rims like Open Pro CXP-33, CXP-22 are rated @ 100 kg.
Yes, I know MA3s are heavier, but they aren't as strong.
Sun CRE16 and Sun CRT16II are strong and wide and have ERD within .5 m
of the MA3.
Current manufacturers and models worth considering(if you are willin
to buy new spokes) a
Velocity Dyad and Mavic A719. Mavic rates the A719 @ 125 kg maximu
rider + gear weight. A719 uses eyelets and sockets at each spoke hole
Velocity Dyad doesn't use eyelets or sockets at the spoke holes an
isn't as refined as Mavic A719, but it is a very tough rim. We us
Velocity Dyads on our 700C touring tandem. They have not been touc
since the original build ~7,000 miles ago

--
daveornee

wrote:

What do you think of
http://tinyurl.com/cjwd6

That looks great. Now all I need to do is get some of these from my LBS.

Jobst Brandt

If you manage that, Jobst, could you share your secret? As far as I can
determine, Ambrosio rims are only available in the U.S. under the
Torelli brand name, and Torelli says those particular rims are no
longer being made. I'd love to get my hands on a couple sets of rims
like the old MA-2.

Jeff

"JeffWills" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:

What do you think of
http://tinyurl.com/cjwd6

That looks great. Now all I need to do is get some of these from my LBS.

Jobst Brandt

If you manage that, Jobst, could you share your secret? As far as I can
determine, Ambrosio rims are only available in the U.S. under the
Torelli brand name, and Torelli says those particular rims are no
longer being made. I'd love to get my hands on a couple sets of rims
like the old MA-2.

A couple of online places that sells Ambrosio rims are

www.ital-tecno.com

http://www.ridecampy.com/26/cat26.htm?77