#51
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New bike path
On 3/15/2018 8:47 AM, Duane wrote:
On 14/03/2018 9:09 PM, Joy Beeson wrote: On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 08:36:45 -0700, Joerg wrote: If you provide proper infrastructure they will come: That's the second time this week that I've cackled aloud while sitting at the computer. I don't *do* that sort of thing. I rarely use segregated paths but there is a ride I like to do from my house in Montreal West Island area to the old port.Â* It's ~100k and really nice.Â* About 80k of it is on bike paths.Â* These paths follow the river and then the Lachine canal so there are basically no intersections.Â* Along the canal where the path crosses city streets the path has under or overpasses. Here's the thing.Â* I take the day off work on my birthday and do this ride with some friends because there's no one on the paths outside of the commute hours.Â* At commute time it's too crowded.Â* On weekends and holidays it's packed. So I guess my point is that if they make these things people use them. In Montreal, a lot of people use them.Â* Whether or not they make sense for commuters is another story.Â* And group riding on bike paths is a bad idea in any case if the paths aren't empty. Most of us probably enjoy a segregated path that's well-maintained, scenic, and mostly empty. Probably few of us enjoy a MUP when it's seeing heavy use. And with good reason! With widely varying users, narrow spaces and a "no rules" environment, movements are often chaotic. So Joerg should lobby for paths that will be unpopular, because those make for the best riding. Of course, that's a tough sell. Can you imagine asking for tax money for a new freeway, by saying "It will be great! Hardly anyone will use it!" Nationwide, only a tiny percentage of these facilities can be justified as shifting mode share from cars to bikes. Despite the cherry-picked examples, most miles of MUP connect nowhere to nowhere, for obvious reasons. So almost all are linear parks, even though they're "sold" as being transportation facilities. They should be paid for from park taxes, not federal or state transportation tax dollars. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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#52
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New bike path
On 3/15/2018 11:23 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/15/2018 8:47 AM, Duane wrote: On 14/03/2018 9:09 PM, Joy Beeson wrote: On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 08:36:45 -0700, Joerg wrote: If you provide proper infrastructure they will come: That's the second time this week that I've cackled aloud while sitting at the computer. I don't *do* that sort of thing. I rarely use segregated paths but there is a ride I like to do from my house in Montreal West Island area to the old port. It's ~100k and really nice. About 80k of it is on bike paths. These paths follow the river and then the Lachine canal so there are basically no intersections. Along the canal where the path crosses city streets the path has under or overpasses. Here's the thing. I take the day off work on my birthday and do this ride with some friends because there's no one on the paths outside of the commute hours. At commute time it's too crowded. On weekends and holidays it's packed. So I guess my point is that if they make these things people use them. In Montreal, a lot of people use them. Whether or not they make sense for commuters is another story. And group riding on bike paths is a bad idea in any case if the paths aren't empty. Most of us probably enjoy a segregated path that's well-maintained, scenic, and mostly empty. Probably few of us enjoy a MUP when it's seeing heavy use. And with good reason! With widely varying users, narrow spaces and a "no rules" environment, movements are often chaotic. So Joerg should lobby for paths that will be unpopular, because those make for the best riding. Of course, that's a tough sell. Can you imagine asking for tax money for a new freeway, by saying "It will be great! Hardly anyone will use it!" Nationwide, only a tiny percentage of these facilities can be justified as shifting mode share from cars to bikes. Despite the cherry-picked examples, most miles of MUP connect nowhere to nowhere, for obvious reasons. So almost all are linear parks, even though they're "sold" as being transportation facilities. They should be paid for from park taxes, not federal or state transportation tax dollars. Some citizens use and appreciate them, just not for cycling: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=assault+on...th&t=hg&ia=web -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#53
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New bike path
On 3/15/2018 10:41 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-14 18:19, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/14/2018 5:56 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-14 14:18, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/14/2018 1:07 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-14 09:08, Frank Krygowski wrote: (You remain the only person I've ever heard of who somehow believes U.C. Davis does not restrict motor vehicle use.) Because they don't. I was there a lot on business and due to the distance and the need to schlepp heavy stuff had to use an SUV. Not the slightest problem. "Restrict motor vehicle use" does not mean "No motor vehicle is ever allowed through." The campus I taught in allowed no motor vehicles in its central core - except, of course, when it was necessary to allow an emergency vehicle, a utility repair truck, a heavy delivery, etc. Allowing one SUV driver schlepping something is far different from letting anyone drive wherever they want. Â*From https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...th-the-bicycle "The campus, cheek-by-jowl with the city, is car-free." I have told you before that that is fake news. Simply repeating it does not make it any less fake. Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â* ... [Yes, as explained above, it's not 100% car free. Everyone else gets the idea.] "Car-use was restricted on campus, with drop-down barriers and a ban on student car ownership (this is still in force)." Â*From http://taps.ucdavis.edu/bicycle/education/community "The University followed suit by banning almost all motor vehicle use from its central core roadways that were formerly open to motor traffic from off campus." They do not. Yeah, yeah, fake news. Who are you going to believe, professional journalists who have no strong agendas? Or one guy on the internet who wants to spend public money to turn America into Amsterdam? I believe myself. I was there a lot so I know. Seems you can't even operate Google Maps. Almost everyone knows that their Google mapping vehicles do not enter restricted areas such as closed campuses or gated communities, meaning there wouldn't be a street view. Since UC Davis has no restriction for on-campus driving you can virtually drive through. See this huge parking lot? https://goo.gl/maps/Ntm7kfRtHfD2 Now why would that be there is traffic was restricted? Quote "banning almost all motor vehicle use from its central core roadways" is, therefore, obviously a false statement. :-) Oh really? How odd that Google Street View (so to speak) is available for places like Petra in Jordon! https://goo.gl/maps/Y1DrTnGKC5N2 Do you imagine some Google contractor stole a 4x4 and ran it through there? Here's a clue, Joerg: https://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/eco-to...t-view-trekker There are countless places that cars cannot access, but Street View can. Which is not to say that Google didn't get permission to send a Street View car through the U.C. Davis campus, just as a person could get permission to make a delivery. But if driving is not restricted through campus, where are all the cars? https://goo.gl/maps/1U8Gzoa39hu And why do so many articles claim driving is restricted through campus? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#54
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New bike path
On 3/15/2018 12:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/15/2018 11:23 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/15/2018 8:47 AM, Duane wrote: On 14/03/2018 9:09 PM, Joy Beeson wrote: On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 08:36:45 -0700, Joerg wrote: If you provide proper infrastructure they will come: That's the second time this week that I've cackled aloud while sitting at the computer. I don't *do* that sort of thing. I rarely use segregated paths but there is a ride I like to do from my house in Montreal West Island area to the old port.ÂÂ* It's ~100k and really nice.ÂÂ* About 80k of it is on bike paths.ÂÂ* These paths follow the river and then the Lachine canal so there are basically no intersections.ÂÂ* Along the canal where the path crosses city streets the path has under or overpasses. Here's the thing.ÂÂ* I take the day off work on my birthday and do this ride with some friends because there's no one on the paths outside of the commute hours.ÂÂ* At commute time it's too crowded.ÂÂ* On weekends and holidays it's packed. So I guess my point is that if they make these things people use them. In Montreal, a lot of people use them. Whether or not they make sense for commuters is another story.ÂÂ* And group riding on bike paths is a bad idea in any case if the paths aren't empty. Most of us probably enjoy a segregated path that's well-maintained, scenic, and mostly empty. Probably few of us enjoy a MUP when it's seeing heavy use. And with good reason! With widely varying users, narrow spaces and a "no rules" environment, movements are often chaotic. So Joerg should lobby for paths that will be unpopular, because those make for the best riding. Of course, that's a tough sell. Can you imagine asking for tax money for a new freeway, by saying "It will be great! Hardly anyone will use it!" Nationwide, only a tiny percentage of these facilities can be justified as shifting mode share from cars to bikes. Despite the cherry-picked examples, most miles of MUP connect nowhere to nowhere, for obvious reasons. So almost all are linear parks, even though they're "sold" as being transportation facilities. They should be paid for from park taxes, not federal or state transportation tax dollars. Some citizens use and appreciate them, just not for cycling: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=assault+on...th&t=hg&ia=web Yes, I suppose they can have financial benefit, if you're of the right mindset. Around here, I know of only one such incident, and there wasn't much profit, because the victim was just a young teenage kid. But a dollar is a dollar, I guess. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#55
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New bike path
On 2018-03-15 09:52, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/15/2018 10:41 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-14 18:19, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/14/2018 5:56 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-14 14:18, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/14/2018 1:07 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-14 09:08, Frank Krygowski wrote: (You remain the only person I've ever heard of who somehow believes U.C. Davis does not restrict motor vehicle use.) Because they don't. I was there a lot on business and due to the distance and the need to schlepp heavy stuff had to use an SUV. Not the slightest problem. "Restrict motor vehicle use" does not mean "No motor vehicle is ever allowed through." The campus I taught in allowed no motor vehicles in its central core - except, of course, when it was necessary to allow an emergency vehicle, a utility repair truck, a heavy delivery, etc. Allowing one SUV driver schlepping something is far different from letting anyone drive wherever they want. From https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...th-the-bicycle "The campus, cheek-by-jowl with the city, is car-free." I have told you before that that is fake news. Simply repeating it does not make it any less fake. ... [Yes, as explained above, it's not 100% car free. Everyone else gets the idea.] "Car-use was restricted on campus, with drop-down barriers and a ban on student car ownership (this is still in force)." From http://taps.ucdavis.edu/bicycle/education/community "The University followed suit by banning almost all motor vehicle use from its central core roadways that were formerly open to motor traffic from off campus." They do not. Yeah, yeah, fake news. Who are you going to believe, professional journalists who have no strong agendas? Or one guy on the internet who wants to spend public money to turn America into Amsterdam? I believe myself. I was there a lot so I know. Seems you can't even operate Google Maps. Almost everyone knows that their Google mapping vehicles do not enter restricted areas such as closed campuses or gated communities, meaning there wouldn't be a street view. Since UC Davis has no restriction for on-campus driving you can virtually drive through. See this huge parking lot? https://goo.gl/maps/Ntm7kfRtHfD2 Now why would that be there is traffic was restricted? Quote "banning almost all motor vehicle use from its central core roadways" is, therefore, obviously a false statement. :-) Oh really? How odd that Google Street View (so to speak) is available for places like Petra in Jordon! https://goo.gl/maps/Y1DrTnGKC5N2 Do you imagine some Google contractor stole a 4x4 and ran it through there? Here's a clue, Joerg: https://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/eco-to...t-view-trekker There are easy clues to see if it was the Google vehicle or someone on foot. 1. Middle of the lane use in traffic. It is illegal in California to walk or cycle lane-centered unless there is an exceptional situation. In my example that clearly is not the case. 2. Shadows that clearly show a vehicle when you zip around the circular view. There are countless places that cars cannot access, but Street View can. Which is not to say that Google didn't get permission to send a Street View car through the U.C. Davis campus, just as a person could get permission to make a delivery. But if driving is not restricted through campus, where are all the cars? https://goo.gl/maps/1U8Gzoa39hu And why do so many articles claim driving is restricted through campus? Go back to my link, that's where many of them are. They have numerous other huge parking lots. Duh. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#56
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New bike path
Joerg writes:
On 2018-03-15 09:52, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/15/2018 10:41 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-14 18:19, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/14/2018 5:56 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-14 14:18, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/14/2018 1:07 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-14 09:08, Frank Krygowski wrote: (You remain the only person I've ever heard of who somehow believes U.C. Davis does not restrict motor vehicle use.) Because they don't. I was there a lot on business and due to the distance and the need to schlepp heavy stuff had to use an SUV. Not the slightest problem. "Restrict motor vehicle use" does not mean "No motor vehicle is ever allowed through." The campus I taught in allowed no motor vehicles in its central core - except, of course, when it was necessary to allow an emergency vehicle, a utility repair truck, a heavy delivery, etc. Allowing one SUV driver schlepping something is far different from letting anyone drive wherever they want. From https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...th-the-bicycle "The campus, cheek-by-jowl with the city, is car-free." I have told you before that that is fake news. Simply repeating it does not make it any less fake. ... [Yes, as explained above, it's not 100% car free. Everyone else gets the idea.] "Car-use was restricted on campus, with drop-down barriers and a ban on student car ownership (this is still in force)." From http://taps.ucdavis.edu/bicycle/education/community "The University followed suit by banning almost all motor vehicle use from its central core roadways that were formerly open to motor traffic from off campus." They do not. Yeah, yeah, fake news. Who are you going to believe, professional journalists who have no strong agendas? Or one guy on the internet who wants to spend public money to turn America into Amsterdam? I believe myself. I was there a lot so I know. Seems you can't even operate Google Maps. Almost everyone knows that their Google mapping vehicles do not enter restricted areas such as closed campuses or gated communities, meaning there wouldn't be a street view. Since UC Davis has no restriction for on-campus driving you can virtually drive through. See this huge parking lot? https://goo.gl/maps/Ntm7kfRtHfD2 Now why would that be there is traffic was restricted? Quote "banning almost all motor vehicle use from its central core roadways" is, therefore, obviously a false statement. :-) Oh really? How odd that Google Street View (so to speak) is available for places like Petra in Jordon! https://goo.gl/maps/Y1DrTnGKC5N2 Do you imagine some Google contractor stole a 4x4 and ran it through there? Here's a clue, Joerg: https://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/eco-to...t-view-trekker There are easy clues to see if it was the Google vehicle or someone on foot. 1. Middle of the lane use in traffic. It is illegal in California to walk or cycle lane-centered unless there is an exceptional situation. In my example that clearly is not the case. 2. Shadows that clearly show a vehicle when you zip around the circular view. There are countless places that cars cannot access, but Street View can. Which is not to say that Google didn't get permission to send a Street View car through the U.C. Davis campus, just as a person could get permission to make a delivery. But if driving is not restricted through campus, where are all the cars? https://goo.gl/maps/1U8Gzoa39hu And why do so many articles claim driving is restricted through campus? Go back to my link, that's where many of them are. They have numerous other huge parking lots. Duh. I don't know which of you is right, but Google is not restricted to cars for street view. See: http://www.viralblog.com/viral-socia...et-view-camel/ Notice the picture of the street view trike -- seems to be pedal-only, at least according to: https://www.wired.com/2009/05/google...s-less-driven/ -- |
#57
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New bike path
On 15/03/2018 12:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/15/2018 11:23 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/15/2018 8:47 AM, Duane wrote: On 14/03/2018 9:09 PM, Joy Beeson wrote: On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 08:36:45 -0700, Joerg wrote: If you provide proper infrastructure they will come: That's the second time this week that I've cackled aloud while sitting at the computer. I don't *do* that sort of thing. I rarely use segregated paths but there is a ride I like to do from my house in Montreal West Island area to the old port.ÂÂ* It's ~100k and really nice.ÂÂ* About 80k of it is on bike paths.ÂÂ* These paths follow the river and then the Lachine canal so there are basically no intersections.ÂÂ* Along the canal where the path crosses city streets the path has under or overpasses. Here's the thing.ÂÂ* I take the day off work on my birthday and do this ride with some friends because there's no one on the paths outside of the commute hours.ÂÂ* At commute time it's too crowded.ÂÂ* On weekends and holidays it's packed. So I guess my point is that if they make these things people use them. In Montreal, a lot of people use them. Whether or not they make sense for commuters is another story.ÂÂ* And group riding on bike paths is a bad idea in any case if the paths aren't empty. Most of us probably enjoy a segregated path that's well-maintained, scenic, and mostly empty. Probably few of us enjoy a MUP when it's seeing heavy use. And with good reason! With widely varying users, narrow spaces and a "no rules" environment, movements are often chaotic. So Joerg should lobby for paths that will be unpopular, because those make for the best riding. Of course, that's a tough sell. Can you imagine asking for tax money for a new freeway, by saying "It will be great! Hardly anyone will use it!" Nationwide, only a tiny percentage of these facilities can be justified as shifting mode share from cars to bikes. Despite the cherry-picked examples, most miles of MUP connect nowhere to nowhere, for obvious reasons. So almost all are linear parks, even though they're "sold" as being transportation facilities. They should be paid for from park taxes, not federal or state transportation tax dollars. Some citizens use and appreciate them, just not for cycling: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=assault+on...th&t=hg&ia=web Well my point was that even though some of us don't use crowded segregated paths, the fact that they are crowded indicates that many people do use them. |
#58
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New bike path
On 2018-03-15 12:31, Duane wrote:
On 15/03/2018 12:30 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 3/15/2018 11:23 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/15/2018 8:47 AM, Duane wrote: On 14/03/2018 9:09 PM, Joy Beeson wrote: On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 08:36:45 -0700, Joerg wrote: If you provide proper infrastructure they will come: That's the second time this week that I've cackled aloud while sitting at the computer. I don't *do* that sort of thing. I rarely use segregated paths but there is a ride I like to do from my house in Montreal West Island area to the old port. It's ~100k and really nice. About 80k of it is on bike paths. These paths follow the river and then the Lachine canal so there are basically no intersections. Along the canal where the path crosses city streets the path has under or overpasses. Here's the thing. I take the day off work on my birthday and do this ride with some friends because there's no one on the paths outside of the commute hours. At commute time it's too crowded. On weekends and holidays it's packed. So I guess my point is that if they make these things people use them. In Montreal, a lot of people use them. Whether or not they make sense for commuters is another story. And group riding on bike paths is a bad idea in any case if the paths aren't empty. Most of us probably enjoy a segregated path that's well-maintained, scenic, and mostly empty. Probably few of us enjoy a MUP when it's seeing heavy use. And with good reason! With widely varying users, narrow spaces and a "no rules" environment, movements are often chaotic. So Joerg should lobby for paths that will be unpopular, because those make for the best riding. Of course, that's a tough sell. Can you imagine asking for tax money for a new freeway, by saying "It will be great! Hardly anyone will use it!" Nationwide, only a tiny percentage of these facilities can be justified as shifting mode share from cars to bikes. Despite the cherry-picked examples, most miles of MUP connect nowhere to nowhere, for obvious reasons. So almost all are linear parks, even though they're "sold" as being transportation facilities. They should be paid for from park taxes, not federal or state transportation tax dollars. Some citizens use and appreciate them, just not for cycling: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=assault+on...th&t=hg&ia=web Well my point was that even though some of us don't use crowded segregated paths, the fact that they are crowded indicates that many people do use them. Last Sunday it was a joy to see a very full paved section of the El Dorado Trail from Placerville to Camino (California). It seems that the New Year's resolutions of many people have stuck this year. Yeah, we can all complain about having to slow down for kids, dogs or slow riders. Yet for some reason cyclists who complain about that do not complain if they spend minutes in slow traffic behind a crawling conga line of trucks. I see it this way: Every slow down is followed by an acceleration event and that builds muscle. Plus I might get to pet a dog or encourage a kid on a tricycle to keep on mashing the pedals. It means a lot to them when an adult says "Good job!". -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#59
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New bike path
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 1:16:28 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-15 12:31, Duane wrote: On 15/03/2018 12:30 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 3/15/2018 11:23 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/15/2018 8:47 AM, Duane wrote: On 14/03/2018 9:09 PM, Joy Beeson wrote: On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 08:36:45 -0700, Joerg wrote: If you provide proper infrastructure they will come: That's the second time this week that I've cackled aloud while sitting at the computer. I don't *do* that sort of thing. I rarely use segregated paths but there is a ride I like to do from my house in Montreal West Island area to the old port. It's ~100k and really nice. About 80k of it is on bike paths. These paths follow the river and then the Lachine canal so there are basically no intersections. Along the canal where the path crosses city streets the path has under or overpasses. Here's the thing. I take the day off work on my birthday and do this ride with some friends because there's no one on the paths outside of the commute hours. At commute time it's too crowded. On weekends and holidays it's packed. So I guess my point is that if they make these things people use them. In Montreal, a lot of people use them. Whether or not they make sense for commuters is another story. And group riding on bike paths is a bad idea in any case if the paths aren't empty. Most of us probably enjoy a segregated path that's well-maintained, scenic, and mostly empty. Probably few of us enjoy a MUP when it's seeing heavy use. And with good reason! With widely varying users, narrow spaces and a "no rules" environment, movements are often chaotic. So Joerg should lobby for paths that will be unpopular, because those make for the best riding. Of course, that's a tough sell. Can you imagine asking for tax money for a new freeway, by saying "It will be great! Hardly anyone will use it!" Nationwide, only a tiny percentage of these facilities can be justified as shifting mode share from cars to bikes. Despite the cherry-picked examples, most miles of MUP connect nowhere to nowhere, for obvious reasons. So almost all are linear parks, even though they're "sold" as being transportation facilities. They should be paid for from park taxes, not federal or state transportation tax dollars. Some citizens use and appreciate them, just not for cycling: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=assault+on...th&t=hg&ia=web Well my point was that even though some of us don't use crowded segregated paths, the fact that they are crowded indicates that many people do use them. Last Sunday it was a joy to see a very full paved section of the El Dorado Trail from Placerville to Camino (California). It seems that the New Year's resolutions of many people have stuck this year. Yeah, we can all complain about having to slow down for kids, dogs or slow riders. Yet for some reason cyclists who complain about that do not complain if they spend minutes in slow traffic behind a crawling conga line of trucks. I complain if I have to sit in slow traffic, but the beauty of being on a bike is that I rarely have to do that, except where passing is impossible. Bicycles may permissibly pass on the right when safe in Oregon. I sit in traffic in the mornings, but I'm still making better time than the cars and passing on either side when possible and safe. I see it this way: Every slow down is followed by an acceleration event and that builds muscle. Plus I might get to pet a dog or encourage a kid on a tricycle to keep on mashing the pedals. It means a lot to them when an adult says "Good job!". Out of curiosity, do you have kids? Half of them will think you're a creep or just in their way. The other half might think you're mildly amusing. Kids are accustomed to hearing "good job" -- little Jimmy on the trike probably hears it ten times a day. It's not like he's going to ride over to his parents and say, "geepers, mom and dad, that creepy man over there said I did a good job! That makes me feel so good! It means a lot to me!" In reality, dealing with kids on trikes on a MUP is usually just a matter of giving them a wide berth. It's kind of like dealing with squirrels -- well, strike that. I'll run over squirrels. Linear parks are fine and some can be useful travel routes for bikes, but mixing bikes and walkers always results in a sub-optimal experience for both -- particularly when you have parents with walkers, dogs and kids on trikes (common around here) and sometimes steep grades. I walk and ride the same local trail, and descending bikes are a menace. I always take the adjacent road when on a bike. -- Jay Beattie. |
#60
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New bike path
On 3/15/2018 8:55 PM, jbeattie wrote:
Linear parks are fine and some can be useful travel routes for bikes, but mixing bikes and walkers always results in a sub-optimal experience for both -- particularly when you have parents with walkers, dogs and kids on trikes (common around here) and sometimes steep grades. I walk and ride the same local trail, and descending bikes are a menace. I always take the adjacent road when on a bike. Related: A committee I'm on for the local metropark presented policy recommendations to the commissioners Monday and got them approved. That includes policies like "Check with knowledgeable bicyclists before you design another [insane] bicycle facility" and "Follow the design manuals [because landscape architects that don't ever ride bikes are not geniuses]. But afterwards, in the public comments segment, one guy stood up and asked if they could please paint some stripes on the road that's closed to motor vehicles, to separate the bikes from peds, dogs, etc. This is on pavement that's 18 feet wide, IIRC. The commissioners gave their usual concerned "we hear you" looks, but I doubt anything will be done. But the guy was justifiably worried about cyclists coming close to pedestrians, dogs, etc. However, we cyclists know that almost all of that is triggered by the peds. We had a club member in the hospital because of a jogger's sudden U-turn. It's common for peds to walk four abreast, with the leftmost straddling the center line, which makes passing on either side a gamble. Many have earbuds. Dogs are on long leashes... etc. The facility supposedly has a 10 mph speed limit for bikes. Someone can say that therefore any crash is the cyclist's fault - but it's odd that roller bladers and runners are allowed to exceed 10 mph. And of course, there's no law requiring a bike to have a speedometer anyway. I do what I can to keep things safe. Specifically, I do that by avoiding the facility whenever it's reasonable to do so. I'll go a mile out of my way to minimize my riding on it. If it were ten feet wide instead of 18, I doubt I'd ever use it unless it was deserted. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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