A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Chain wear and cassette question



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 10th 18, 09:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Chain wear and cassette question

To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed 0.5%
stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one has to
stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long. However, the
rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is
too much? I guess it's almost finished because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from
my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old
Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and
also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust
old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs
anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted
and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link
below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to
get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano
STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #2  
Old November 10th 18, 11:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 12:51:38 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed 0.5%
stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one has to
stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long. However, the
rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is
too much? I guess it's almost finished because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from
my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old
Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and
also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust
old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs
anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted
and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link
below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to
get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano
STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


With the Sunrace, the big cogs are not on a carrier, so you can talk it apart. It looks like it has one torx screw. http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csm680
  #3  
Old November 11th 18, 04:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On 2018-11-10 14:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 12:51:38 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed
0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one
has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long.
However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or
1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished because of
those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T
from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the
trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to
become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I
can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as
KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked
cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old spacers.
Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be hacked
apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get them apart.
If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano STX-RC
freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327



--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


With the Sunrace, the big cogs are not on a carrier, so you can talk
it apart. It looks like it has one torx screw.
http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csm680


Cool. Thanks, then in can be done. I wonder why they often sell derailer
hanger adapters for that. Maybe even the long cage derailers aren't long
enough for 40T? Should work on my road bike though because it has
adjustable slot drop-outs and I already had to scoot it forward to make
the Shimano 600 derailer handle 32T (it's normally limited to 28T).

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #4  
Old November 10th 18, 11:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:51:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed 0.5%
stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one has to
stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long. However, the
rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is
too much? I guess it's almost finished because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from
my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old
Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and
also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust
old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs
anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted
and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link
below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to
get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano
STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327


My rather limited experience has been that the
cassettes with the larger cogs usually have the largest 3 or 4 cogs
riveted to a hub that connects them to the free hub so yes you can
hack them if you accept the size and spacing of the largest three, or
so, cogs.

Some time ago I think you talked about using friction shifters and if
you do that then the spacing of the cassette is no longer relevant as
the friction shifters will shift any cassette.

cheers,

John B.



  #5  
Old November 11th 18, 04:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On 2018-11-10 14:53, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:51:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed 0.5%
stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one has to
stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long. However, the
rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is
too much? I guess it's almost finished because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from
my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old
Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and
also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust
old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs
anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted
and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link
below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to
get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano
STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327


My rather limited experience has been that the
cassettes with the larger cogs usually have the largest 3 or 4 cogs
riveted to a hub that connects them to the free hub so yes you can
hack them if you accept the size and spacing of the largest three, or
so, cogs.


Yes, some cassettes are like that, such as the one on my MTB. I never
saw an 8-speed like that though.


Some time ago I think you talked about using friction shifters and if
you do that then the spacing of the cassette is no longer relevant as
the friction shifters will shift any cassette.


It will but I'd like to stay with the sturdier 5-6-7 speed chains for
the road bike. That reduces maintance.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #6  
Old November 18th 18, 07:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,261
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 2:53:28 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:51:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed 0.5%
stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one has to
stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long. However, the
rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is
too much? I guess it's almost finished because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from
my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old
Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and
also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust
old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs
anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted
and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link
below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to
get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano
STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327


My rather limited experience has been that the
cassettes with the larger cogs usually have the largest 3 or 4 cogs
riveted to a hub that connects them to the free hub so yes you can
hack them if you accept the size and spacing of the largest three, or
so, cogs.

Some time ago I think you talked about using friction shifters and if
you do that then the spacing of the cassette is no longer relevant as
the friction shifters will shift any cassette.

cheers,

John B.


I was repairing a friend's bike yesterday and he uses a 10 speed 12-34 and the lower 8 speeds of the Deore cassette were all rivetted together. I didn't like the cassette or the long arm derailleur that goes with it.
  #7  
Old November 20th 18, 04:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On 2018-11-18 10:17, wrote:
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 2:53:28 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb
wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:51:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed
0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one
has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long.
However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040"
or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished
because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T
from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire
the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to
become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I
can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as
KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked
cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old
spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be
hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get
them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a
Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub
had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327



My rather limited experience has been that the
cassettes with the larger cogs usually have the largest 3 or 4
cogs riveted to a hub that connects them to the free hub so yes you
can hack them if you accept the size and spacing of the largest
three, or so, cogs.

Some time ago I think you talked about using friction shifters and
if you do that then the spacing of the cassette is no longer
relevant as the friction shifters will shift any cassette.

cheers,

John B.


I was repairing a friend's bike yesterday and he uses a 10 speed
12-34 and the lower 8 speeds of the Deore cassette were all rivetted
together. I didn't like the cassette or the long arm derailleur that
goes with it.


Yesterday I received the big Sunrace cassette, including new derailer
and derailer extender. The cassette has only one screw and it almost
fell into pieces when I dragged it out of its box. Not a problem, just
strange. It's huge, almost the diameter of a dessert plate.

This week's ride got smoked out (literally) and then it's suposed to
begin to rain on Wednesday. So maybe some time to do the cassette hack
unless something on the honey-do lits wins. Like the pool sweep that
just quit.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #8  
Old November 20th 18, 05:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 7:24:13 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-18 10:17, wrote:
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 2:53:28 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb
wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:51:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed
0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one
has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long.
However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040"
or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished
because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T
from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire
the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to
become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I
can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as
KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked
cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old
spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be
hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get
them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a
Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub
had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327



My rather limited experience has been that the
cassettes with the larger cogs usually have the largest 3 or 4
cogs riveted to a hub that connects them to the free hub so yes you
can hack them if you accept the size and spacing of the largest
three, or so, cogs.

Some time ago I think you talked about using friction shifters and
if you do that then the spacing of the cassette is no longer
relevant as the friction shifters will shift any cassette.

cheers,

John B.


I was repairing a friend's bike yesterday and he uses a 10 speed
12-34 and the lower 8 speeds of the Deore cassette were all rivetted
together. I didn't like the cassette or the long arm derailleur that
goes with it.


Yesterday I received the big Sunrace cassette, including new derailer
and derailer extender. The cassette has only one screw and it almost
fell into pieces when I dragged it out of its box. Not a problem, just
strange. It's huge, almost the diameter of a dessert plate.

This week's ride got smoked out (literally) and then it's suposed to
begin to rain on Wednesday. So maybe some time to do the cassette hack
unless something on the honey-do lits wins. Like the pool sweep that
just quit.


Told you it just looked like single screw and some locating pins -- if any pins.

My tale of woe (stupidity): the Vuelta Corsa SLX disc rear that I got from Nashbar dirt-cheap suffered a broken spoke -- rear drive side. The wheel is amazingly robust for an el-cheapo prefab wheel, and the break is totally my fault. I threw on an old rear derailleur last year because the previous old rear derailleur finally wore out. The bike has been the sump for all my old, used parts. Anyway, I was in a hurry, threw it on, took off and overshifted into the spokes. Deja vu 1978. I scarred up the outbound spokes badly and one finally broke. Now I have to find a suitable replacement(s), which will be difficult from my vast used spoke collection because they are all too long. I'll probably have to buy a few from Universal.

-- Jay Beattie.


  #9  
Old November 20th 18, 07:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On 11/20/2018 10:36 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 7:24:13 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-18 10:17, wrote:
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 2:53:28 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb
wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:51:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed
0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one
has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long.
However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040"
or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished
because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T
from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire
the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to
become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I
can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as
KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked
cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old
spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be
hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get
them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a
Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub
had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327



My rather limited experience has been that the
cassettes with the larger cogs usually have the largest 3 or 4
cogs riveted to a hub that connects them to the free hub so yes you
can hack them if you accept the size and spacing of the largest
three, or so, cogs.

Some time ago I think you talked about using friction shifters and
if you do that then the spacing of the cassette is no longer
relevant as the friction shifters will shift any cassette.

cheers,

John B.

I was repairing a friend's bike yesterday and he uses a 10 speed
12-34 and the lower 8 speeds of the Deore cassette were all rivetted
together. I didn't like the cassette or the long arm derailleur that
goes with it.


Yesterday I received the big Sunrace cassette, including new derailer
and derailer extender. The cassette has only one screw and it almost
fell into pieces when I dragged it out of its box. Not a problem, just
strange. It's huge, almost the diameter of a dessert plate.

This week's ride got smoked out (literally) and then it's suposed to
begin to rain on Wednesday. So maybe some time to do the cassette hack
unless something on the honey-do lits wins. Like the pool sweep that
just quit.


Told you it just looked like single screw and some locating pins -- if any pins.

My tale of woe (stupidity): the Vuelta Corsa SLX disc rear that I got from Nashbar dirt-cheap suffered a broken spoke -- rear drive side. The wheel is amazingly robust for an el-cheapo prefab wheel, and the break is totally my fault. I threw on an old rear derailleur last year because the previous old rear derailleur finally wore out. The bike has been the sump for all my old, used parts. Anyway, I was in a hurry, threw it on, took off and overshifted into the spokes. Deja vu 1978. I scarred up the outbound spokes badly and one finally broke. Now I have to find a suitable replacement(s), which will be difficult from my vast used spoke collection because they are all too long. I'll probably have to buy a few from Universal.


http://www.yellowjersey.org/fiberfix.html

I had two of those in my winter fixie wheel* for 5~6 years
until the volume of dents reached a point where a new wheel
made sense.

*other damage prevented sprocket removal


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #10  
Old November 21st 18, 04:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On 2018-11-20 08:36, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 7:24:13 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-18 10:17, wrote:
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 2:53:28 PM UTC-8, John B.
slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:51:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not
exceed 0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some
hills where one has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain
last this long. However, the rollers have developed a lot of
play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's
almost finished because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least
40T from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to
retire the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the
cassette to become ever wider and also need to maintain
7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm
pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs
anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs
I wanted and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger
cassettes like in the link below still be hacked apart? I
don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get them apart. If
memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano STX-RC
freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had
croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327





My rather limited experience has been that the
cassettes with the larger cogs usually have the largest 3 or 4
cogs riveted to a hub that connects them to the free hub so yes
you can hack them if you accept the size and spacing of the
largest three, or so, cogs.

Some time ago I think you talked about using friction shifters
and if you do that then the spacing of the cassette is no
longer relevant as the friction shifters will shift any
cassette.

cheers,

John B.

I was repairing a friend's bike yesterday and he uses a 10 speed
12-34 and the lower 8 speeds of the Deore cassette were all
rivetted together. I didn't like the cassette or the long arm
derailleur that goes with it.


Yesterday I received the big Sunrace cassette, including new
derailer and derailer extender. The cassette has only one screw and
it almost fell into pieces when I dragged it out of its box. Not a
problem, just strange. It's huge, almost the diameter of a dessert
plate.

This week's ride got smoked out (literally) and then it's suposed
to begin to rain on Wednesday. So maybe some time to do the
cassette hack unless something on the honey-do lits wins. Like the
pool sweep that just quit.


Told you it just looked like single screw and some locating pins --
if any pins.


There are two more locations, seems they just didn't put them in. Oh
well. However, a pump broke so I've got some other work cut out for me
first :-(


My tale of woe (stupidity): the Vuelta Corsa SLX disc rear that I
got from Nashbar dirt-cheap suffered a broken spoke -- rear drive
side. The wheel is amazingly robust for an el-cheapo prefab wheel,
and the break is totally my fault. I threw on an old rear derailleur
last year because the previous old rear derailleur finally wore out.
The bike has been the sump for all my old, used parts. Anyway, I was
in a hurry, threw it on, took off and overshifted into the spokes.
Deja vu 1978. I scarred up the outbound spokes badly and one finally
broke. Now I have to find a suitable replacement(s), which will be
difficult from my vast used spoke collection because they are all too
long. I'll probably have to buy a few from Universal.


Though shalt not ride off without properly adjusting the limit screws,
even with index shifters.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
if chain wear were never a factor, how long would a cassette last? [email protected] Techniques 12 August 16th 07 04:48 AM
chain stretch, cassette wear and joining links xisle Australia 3 September 9th 04 03:31 AM
chain stretch, cassette wear and joining links xisle Australia 1 September 8th 04 02:18 AM
chain stretch, cassette wear and joining links xisle Australia 4 September 8th 04 02:10 AM
chain stretch, cassette wear and joining links xisle Australia 3 September 7th 04 05:48 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.