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  #1  
Old May 9th 14, 02:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Physics lesson

http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/...t.cfm?id=15321

Classic. Reminds me of the legendary, "You honor, the fork
sprung and forced my client's bicycle into the bus"
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  #2  
Old May 9th 14, 03:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Physics lesson

On Friday, May 9, 2014 9:01:53 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/...t.cfm?id=15321



Classic. Reminds me of the legendary, "You honor, the fork

sprung and forced my client's bicycle into the bus"

--

Andrew Muzi

www.yellowjersey.org/

Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Interesting but it doesn't say when the fork broke. Was it before or after the accident?

"Upon arrival they located a male cyclist who had apparently crashed while riding his bike through the construction zone. Witness statements taken at the scene indicated the cyclist was passing motor vehicle traffic in the construction zone and had ran a red light in the process. The cyclist was not wearing a helmet. Examination of his bicycle found the carbon fiber front fork had snapped off (potentially causing the crash). The cyclist remains in a local hospital in critical condition with a severe head injury."

You cam also be that the anti-helmet crowd will be all over the helmet statement.

Cheers








21*
  #3  
Old May 9th 14, 04:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Physics lesson

On Friday, May 9, 2014 7:24:51 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, May 9, 2014 9:01:53 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:

http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/...t.cfm?id=15321

Classic. Reminds me of the legendary, "You honor, the fork
sprung and forced my client's bicycle into the bus"


Interesting but it doesn't say when the fork broke. Was it before or after the accident?


Based on the limited info (well stocked with what are probably
red herring), a most probable best guess would be that the broken
fork caused the crash.

snip
  #4  
Old May 9th 14, 08:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Physics lesson

On Friday, May 9, 2014 10:24:51 AM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, May 9, 2014 9:01:53 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:

http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/...t.cfm?id=15321








Classic. Reminds me of the legendary, "You honor, the fork




sprung and forced my client's bicycle into the bus"




--




Andrew Muzi




www.yellowjersey.org/




Open every day since 1 April, 1971




Interesting but it doesn't say when the fork broke. Was it before or after the accident?



"Upon arrival they located a male cyclist who had apparently crashed while riding his bike through the construction zone. Witness statements taken at the scene indicated the cyclist was passing motor vehicle traffic in the construction zone and had ran a red light in the process. The cyclist was not wearing a helmet. Examination of his bicycle found the carbon fiber front fork had snapped off (potentially causing the crash). The cyclist remains in a local hospital in critical condition with a severe head injury."



You cam also be that the anti-helmet crowd will be all over the helmet statement.


As "Sir" has proven, so will the pro-helmet crew. What else is new?

- Frank Krygowski
  #5  
Old May 10th 14, 12:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Physics lesson

On Friday, May 9, 2014 8:34:42 AM UTC-7, Dan O wrote:
On Friday, May 9, 2014 7:24:51 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

On Friday, May 9, 2014 9:01:53 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:




http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/.....cfm?id=15321




Classic. Reminds me of the legendary, "You honor, the fork


sprung and forced my client's bicycle into the bus"




Interesting but it doesn't say when the fork broke. Was it before or after the accident?






Based on the limited info (well stocked with what are probably

red herring), a most probable best guess would be that the broken

fork caused the crash.



snip


According to a claimed witness:

"There is no red light at the corner of Livingston and Johnson and this happened right out front of my apartment. The construction is what caused this.. His bike's front wheel got caught in a huge crack down Johnson st and he flipped and smashed his head."

http://www.channel3000.com/news/bicy...ident/25893480

The comment by police that the broken fork caused the accident is very typical. Riders have wall impacts or catch a stick in their forks, get ejected and wake to find a broken CF fork. As a result of head injury or poor reasoning skills, they immediately conclude that the broken fork caused their fall. In the course of representing manufacturers, I have seen very few forks of any design that simply fell apart during normal use. It happens, but it is very rare.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #6  
Old May 10th 14, 04:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Physics lesson

On Friday, May 9, 2014 7:25:38 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, May 9, 2014 8:34:42 AM UTC-7, Dan O wrote:

On Friday, May 9, 2014 7:24:51 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:




On Friday, May 9, 2014 9:01:53 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:








http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/...t.cfm?id=15321








Classic. Reminds me of the legendary, "You honor, the fork




sprung and forced my client's bicycle into the bus"








Interesting but it doesn't say when the fork broke. Was it before or after the accident?












Based on the limited info (well stocked with what are probably




red herring), a most probable best guess would be that the broken




fork caused the crash.








snip




According to a claimed witness:



"There is no red light at the corner of Livingston and Johnson and this happened right out front of my apartment. The construction is what caused this. His bike's front wheel got caught in a huge crack down Johnson st and he flipped and smashed his head."



http://www.channel3000.com/news/bicy...ident/25893480



The comment by police that the broken fork caused the accident is very typical. Riders have wall impacts or catch a stick in their forks, get ejected and wake to find a broken CF fork. As a result of head injury or poor reasoning skills, they immediately conclude that the broken fork caused their fall. In the course of representing manufacturers, I have seen very few forks of any design that simply fell apart during normal use. It happens, but it is very rare.


I think that makes sense, even though I suffered a crash because of a bona fide
"just riding along" fork failure. In my case, it wasn't a normal manufacturer,
who would be likely to test his design; instead it was Jim Bradford, building
his last custom tandem before heading to Europe for his honeymoon. Seems he
grabbed a set of track forks and slapped them into our tandem. The wall
thickness turned out to be only 1/3 that of a proper tandem fork.

I notice that the article didn't actually say there was a traffic light at
the crash point. If witnesses saw the guy run a red light 1/4 mile earlier,
then related that, the article would be technically correct, but still
misleading.

- Frank Krygowski
  #7  
Old May 10th 14, 06:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Physics lesson

Frank Krygowski wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
Dan O wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/...t.cfm?id=15321
Classic. Reminds me of the legendary, "You honor, the fork
sprung and forced my client's bicycle into the bus"
Interesting but it doesn't say when the fork broke. Was it before or after the accident?
Based on the limited info (well stocked with what are probably
red herring), a most probable best guess would be that the broken
fork caused the crash.
snip

According to a claimed witness:
"There is no red light at the corner of Livingston and Johnson and this happened right out front of my apartment. The construction is what caused this. His bike's front wheel got caught in a huge crack down Johnson st and he flipped and smashed his head."
http://www.channel3000.com/news/bicy...ident/25893480
The comment by police that the broken fork caused the accident is very typical. Riders have wall impacts or catch a stick in their forks, get ejected and wake to find a broken CF fork. As a result of head injury or poor reasoning skills, they immediately conclude that the broken fork caused their fall. In the course of representing manufacturers, I have seen very few forks of any design that simply fell apart during normal use. It happens, but it is very rare.

I think that makes sense, even though I suffered a crash because of a bona fide
"just riding along" fork failure. In my case, it wasn't a normal manufacturer,
who would be likely to test his design; instead it was Jim Bradford, building
his last custom tandem before heading to Europe for his honeymoon. Seems he
grabbed a set of track forks and slapped them into our tandem. The wall
thickness turned out to be only 1/3 that of a proper tandem fork.
I notice that the article didn't actually say there was a traffic light at
the crash point. If witnesses saw the guy run a red light 1/4 mile earlier,
then related that, the article would be technically correct, but still
misleading.


That's 5 blocks from my house. The light is one block
before Livingston, at Blount Street. East Johnson was once a
'street', it's a Beirut level series of craters this year.

Rider was on the other side of the Orange Cone Line, passing
a stopped row of cars. Maybe he didn't know that a line of
orange cones means something like 'the surface sucks more
over here because we dug holes on this side'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #8  
Old May 11th 14, 06:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Physics lesson

On Friday, May 9, 2014 4:25:38 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, May 9, 2014 8:34:42 AM UTC-7, Dan O wrote:
On Friday, May 9, 2014 7:24:51 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, May 9, 2014 9:01:53 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:


http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/...t.cfm?id=15321


Classic. Reminds me of the legendary, "You honor, the fork
sprung and forced my client's bicycle into the bus"


Interesting but it doesn't say when the fork broke. Was it before or after the accident?


Based on the limited info (well stocked with what are probably
red herring), a most probable best guess would be that the broken
fork caused the crash.
snip


According to a claimed witness:

"There is no red light at the corner of Livingston and Johnson and this happened right out front of my apartment. The construction is what caused this. His bike's front wheel got caught in a huge crack down Johnson st and he flipped and smashed his head."

http://www.channel3000.com/news/bicy...ident/25893480


Hmm... Shaina doesn't say she witnessed the crash - just that it's
out in front of her apartment.


The comment by police that the broken fork caused the accident is very typical.


I am not up on what cops typically say, but "... potentially
causing the crash" sounds very reasonable and prudent to me.

Riders have wall impacts or catch a stick in their forks, get ejected and wake to find a broken CF fork.


So what broke the fork? Hitting a wall or catching a stick in
the forks does not necessarily mean you're going to crash, but
if it breaks the fork...

As a result of head injury or poor reasoning skills, they immediately conclude that the broken fork caused their fall. In the course of representing manufacturers, I have seen very few forks of any design that simply fell apart during normal use.


I don't think anybody implied normal use; but... well, let's
review what Shaina said: "His bike's front wheel got caught in
a huge crack down Johnson st and he flipped... " Really?
"Caught"? Or the front wheel went in a hole and fork broke
off - one very plausible explanation for the wheel to remain
in the hole while the rider went on over the bars).

I don't know if that's it. Very limited info and almost all
speculation ("guess"). And I wouldn't be blaming the fork
anyway. Surely it was what the rider did that put the fork
into such a predicament. However, as to "smashed his head"
(per Shaina), there would be a difference in the arc and
trajectory and timelapse if you endo pivoting over the intact
front end vs. having the front end disappear out from under
you.

It happens, but it is very rare.


Frank has his story. Certainly no crash was ever *his* fault ;-)
  #9  
Old May 12th 14, 07:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Physics lesson

On Sunday, May 11, 2014 10:41:17 AM UTC-7, Dan O wrote:
On Friday, May 9, 2014 4:25:38 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:


snip

http://www.channel3000.com/news/bicy...ident/25893480


Hmm... Shaina doesn't say she witnessed the crash - just that it's
out in front of her apartment.


More comments: "we saw it happen. no red light at that intersection,
no cones warning cyclists of the giant crack in the road"

Still not definitive, but "giant crack" sounds more like a fork
breaker than a front wheel grabber.

snip

  #10  
Old May 12th 14, 11:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.
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Posts: 145
Default Physics lesson

On Sun, 11 May 2014 23:17:02 -0700 (PDT), Dan O
wrote:

On Sunday, May 11, 2014 10:41:17 AM UTC-7, Dan O wrote:
On Friday, May 9, 2014 4:25:38 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:


snip

http://www.channel3000.com/news/bicy...ident/25893480


Hmm... Shaina doesn't say she witnessed the crash - just that it's
out in front of her apartment.


More comments: "we saw it happen. no red light at that intersection,
no cones warning cyclists of the giant crack in the road"

Still not definitive, but "giant crack" sounds more like a fork
breaker than a front wheel grabber.

Is the implication here that a bicyclist requires some sort of notice
about road conditions? After all, a "construction zone" is sort of
under construction and one might expect somewhat less then pristine
road conditions.

--
Cheers,

John B.
(invalid to gmail)
 




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