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#1
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Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)
Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative'
individuals about my new carbon wheels. Firstly, and most importantly: braking is as good as with any of my alloy rims! Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type braking. Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever. Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well. Secondly: no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line. Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). Went for a ride yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. 18 degrees ambient. God it was great to get out on the bike again! Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of negativism' were totally wrong. D'ohBoy |
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#2
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Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)
D'ohBoy wrote:
Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative' individuals about my new carbon wheels. Firstly, and most importantly: braking is as good as with any of my alloy rims! Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type braking. Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever. Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well. Secondly: no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line. Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). Went for a ride yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. 18 degrees ambient. God it was great to get out on the bike again! Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of negativism' were totally wrong. D'ohBoy oh come on - being underinformed and not having any experience doesn't mean you can't have an opinion! |
#3
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Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)
On 2 mrt, 15:07, "D'ohBoy" wrote:
Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative' individuals about my new carbon wheels. Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever. Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well. Secondly: *no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line. Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). *Went for a ride yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. *18 degrees ambient. *God it was great to get out on the bike again! Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of negativism' were totally wrong. D'ohBoy Was it wet yesterday? Did you notice any advantages compared to the cheaper alloy rims? If I remembered correctly they were on the heavy side. Lou |
#4
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Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)
On Mar 2, 9:26*am, wrote:
On 2 mrt, 15:07, "D'ohBoy" wrote: Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative' individuals about my new carbon wheels. Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever. Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well. Secondly: *no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line. Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). *Went for a ride yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. *18 degrees ambient. *God it was great to get out on the bike again! Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of negativism' were totally wrong. D'ohBoy Was it wet yesterday? Did you notice any advantages compared to the cheaper alloy rims? If I remembered correctly they were on the heavy side. Lou The cheaper alloy rims that weigh much more? Yes. To get a rim as light (390 gms) I have to go to the IRD Cadence. Box section, non- aero, wimpy rim. Destroyed the first rear I had because the single eyelets pulled outta the rim with just 105 kgf on the DS in less than a year of riding. And to get a rim as stiff, I would have to add 180 gms *per rim* for Velocity Deep Vees with the same section (actually not as aero as the aero section on the Protech but the same depth). So these are lighter than alloy rims with the same section by 360 gms, and yet as strong as those much heavier rims. And since I have the coin, I can enjoy the ride. Plus it was a kick building the wheels as I am an inveterate putterer. No, Lou, it wasn't wet. But I imagine similar performance from my braking (i.e., the brakes will have to clear the gunk and water before they kick in as with a wet alloy rim). And I will be wary of the wet until I have proven otherwise. Not persuaded yet. And if you do turn out to be right, Lou, well, then I don't ride them if it's gonna rain. Generally don't ride in the rain anyhoo, if I can help it. D'ohBoy |
#5
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Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)
On 2 mrt, 16:48, "D'ohBoy" wrote:
On Mar 2, 9:26*am, wrote: On 2 mrt, 15:07, "D'ohBoy" wrote: Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative' individuals about my new carbon wheels. Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever. Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well. Secondly: *no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line. Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). *Went for a ride yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. *18 degrees ambient. *God it was great to get out on the bike again! Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of negativism' were totally wrong. D'ohBoy Was it wet yesterday? Did you notice any advantages compared to the cheaper alloy rims? If I remembered correctly they were on the heavy side. Lou The cheaper alloy rims that weigh much more? *Yes. *To get a rim as light (390 gms) I have to go to the IRD Cadence. * Box section, non- aero, wimpy rim. *Destroyed the first rear I had because the single eyelets pulled outta the rim with just 105 kgf on the DS in less than a year of riding. And to get a rim as stiff, I would have to add 180 gms *per rim* for Velocity Deep Vees with the same section (actually not as aero as the aero section on the Protech but the same depth). So these are lighter than alloy rims with the same section by 360 gms, and yet as strong as those much heavier rims. And since I have the coin, I can enjoy the ride. *Plus it was a kick building the wheels as I am an inveterate putterer. No, Lou, it wasn't wet. *But I imagine similar performance from my braking (i.e., the brakes will have to clear the gunk and water before they kick in as with a wet alloy rim). *And I will be wary of the wet until I have proven otherwise. Not persuaded yet. *And if you do turn out to be right, Lou, well, then I don't ride them if it's gonna rain. *Generally don't ride in the rain anyhoo, if I can help it. D'ohBoy- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven - - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven - OK it is a weight thing than and yes they are quite a bit lighter than similar alloy rims although 180 gr per rim is somewhat exaggerated. I remembered wrong. I have no problem with it. If you only enjoy the looks it OK with me. I gave you my honest opinion based on using Campy Hyperon wheels for two years. My conclusion was that they have no functional benefits and have serious drawbacks when descending steep hairpinned Alpes were weight would be a factor. Have fun with them, but your subject title is ehh.. wrong because I was telling the truth and nothing but the truth ;-) Lou |
#6
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Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)
On Mar 2, 7:48*am, "D'ohBoy" wrote:
On Mar 2, 9:26*am, wrote: On 2 mrt, 15:07, "D'ohBoy" wrote: Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative' individuals about my new carbon wheels. Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever. Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well. Secondly: *no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line. Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). *Went for a ride yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. *18 degrees ambient. *God it was great to get out on the bike again! Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of negativism' were totally wrong. D'ohBoy Was it wet yesterday? Did you notice any advantages compared to the cheaper alloy rims? If I remembered correctly they were on the heavy side. Lou The cheaper alloy rims that weigh much more? *Yes. *To get a rim as light (390 gms) I have to go to the IRD Cadence. * Box section, non- aero, wimpy rim. *Destroyed the first rear I had because the single eyelets pulled outta the rim with just 105 kgf on the DS in less than a year of riding. Or you can get a Velocity Aerohead at 400g for $49. Perfectly fine rime for most people. What is your finished wheel weight? And to get a rim as stiff, I would have to add 180 gms *per rim* for Velocity Deep Vees with the same section (actually not as aero as the aero section on the Protech but the same depth). So these are lighter than alloy rims with the same section by 360 gms, and yet as strong as those much heavier rims. And since I have the coin, I can enjoy the ride. *Plus it was a kick building the wheels as I am an inveterate putterer. No, Lou, it wasn't wet. *But I imagine similar performance from my braking (i.e., the brakes will have to clear the gunk and water before they kick in as with a wet alloy rim). *And I will be wary of the wet until I have proven otherwise. Keep us posted. Seriously. I would like to hear how CF works as a stand alone rim and not part of a package wheel. -- Jay Beattie. |
#7
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Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)
On Mar 2, 10:12*am, wrote:
On 2 mrt, 16:48, "D'ohBoy" wrote: On Mar 2, 9:26*am, wrote: On 2 mrt, 15:07, "D'ohBoy" wrote: Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative' individuals about my new carbon wheels. Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever. Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well. Secondly: *no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line. Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). *Went for a ride yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. *18 degrees ambient. *God it was great to get out on the bike again! Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of negativism' were totally wrong. D'ohBoy Was it wet yesterday? Did you notice any advantages compared to the cheaper alloy rims? If I remembered correctly they were on the heavy side. Lou The cheaper alloy rims that weigh much more? *Yes. *To get a rim as light (390 gms) I have to go to the IRD Cadence. * Box section, non- aero, wimpy rim. *Destroyed the first rear I had because the single eyelets pulled outta the rim with just 105 kgf on the DS in less than a year of riding. And to get a rim as stiff, I would have to add 180 gms *per rim* for Velocity Deep Vees with the same section (actually not as aero as the aero section on the Protech but the same depth). So these are lighter than alloy rims with the same section by 360 gms, and yet as strong as those much heavier rims. And since I have the coin, I can enjoy the ride. *Plus it was a kick building the wheels as I am an inveterate putterer. No, Lou, it wasn't wet. *But I imagine similar performance from my braking (i.e., the brakes will have to clear the gunk and water before they kick in as with a wet alloy rim). *And I will be wary of the wet until I have proven otherwise. Not persuaded yet. *And if you do turn out to be right, Lou, well, then I don't ride them if it's gonna rain. *Generally don't ride in the rain anyhoo, if I can help it. D'ohBoy- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven - - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven - OK it is a weight thing than and yes they are quite a bit lighter than similar alloy rims although 180 gr per rim is somewhat exaggerated. *I remembered wrong. I have no problem with it. If you only enjoy the looks it OK with me. I gave you my honest opinion based on using Campy Hyperon wheels for two years. My conclusion was that they have no functional benefits and have serious drawbacks when descending steep hairpinned Alpes were weight would be a factor. Have fun with them, but your subject title is *ehh.. wrong because I was telling the truth and nothing but the truth ;-) Lou Hi, Lou: Agreed - your experience is yours and no one can take that away from you. However.... Weight Weenies gives multiple listings for the Deep Vee at 580 gms (!). This means that you are right, the difference is not 180 gms per, but rather 190 gms per rim, or just under 400 gms for the set!!! Huge difference in weight, more aero shape for the carbon rim and very acceptable braking in the dry. More about the wet braking if it occurs - but I won't seek it out D'ohBoy |
#8
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Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)
On Mar 2, 10:25*am, jwbinpdx wrote:
On Mar 2, 7:48*am, "D'ohBoy" wrote: On Mar 2, 9:26*am, wrote: On 2 mrt, 15:07, "D'ohBoy" wrote: Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative' individuals about my new carbon wheels. Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever. Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well. Secondly: *no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line. Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). *Went for a ride yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. *18 degrees ambient. *God it was great to get out on the bike again! Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of negativism' were totally wrong. D'ohBoy Was it wet yesterday? Did you notice any advantages compared to the cheaper alloy rims? If I remembered correctly they were on the heavy side. Lou The cheaper alloy rims that weigh much more? *Yes. *To get a rim as light (390 gms) I have to go to the IRD Cadence. * Box section, non- aero, wimpy rim. *Destroyed the first rear I had because the single eyelets pulled outta the rim with just 105 kgf on the DS in less than a year of riding. Or you can get a Velocity Aerohead at 400g for $49. *Perfectly fine rime for most people. *What is your finished wheel weight? And to get a rim as stiff, I would have to add 180 gms *per rim* for Velocity Deep Vees with the same section (actually not as aero as the aero section on the Protech but the same depth). So these are lighter than alloy rims with the same section by 360 gms, and yet as strong as those much heavier rims. And since I have the coin, I can enjoy the ride. *Plus it was a kick building the wheels as I am an inveterate putterer. No, Lou, it wasn't wet. *But I imagine similar performance from my braking (i.e., the brakes will have to clear the gunk and water before they kick in as with a wet alloy rim). *And I will be wary of the wet until I have proven otherwise. Keep us posted. *Seriously. *I would like to hear how CF works as a stand alone rim and not part of a package wheel. -- Jay Beattie. Finished wheel weight is ~950 gms for the rear, about 560 for the front. Rear is on a ~420 gm powertap, however. Woulda been about 700 for the rear with a tune or other high-end hub. Anyhoo - yah the Aerohead is okay. Not quite the rim for daily use for a big boy (~95 kg) tho unless you go 36 spoke. Have a buddy who goes around 240 - 250 and he put his 36 spoke OCR Aerohead outta true every coupla weeks. Finally talked him into picking up my old pair of 36 spoke CXP-33s. Now he never has to true. Complains the bike feels heavy when he lifts it but he really likes how they ride and *stay true*. Don't know why it took him so long to realize the Aeroheads just weren't for him, even in OCR format. D'ohBoy |
#9
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Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)
On Mar 2, 6:07*am, "D'ohBoy" wrote:
Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever. Can you say what made them need more modulation? Were they grabby? Was braking force less linear with respect to force applied at the lever? Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, [...] And this means... what? If the rims weigh less than aluminum rims, the difference is on the order of a quarter of one percent of total bike plus rider weight: not the stuff that significantly easier climbing is made of. Tom Ace |
#10
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Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)
On Mar 2, 11:07*am, Tom Ace wrote:
On Mar 2, 6:07*am, "D'ohBoy" wrote: Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever. Can you say what made them need more modulation? Were they grabby? *Was braking force less linear with respect to force applied at the lever? Actually, it was as Mr. Holtman described earlier - won't grab hard initially, but you don't want to clamp down as they (the brakepads) will heat up and start to grab big time. This occurs rapidly and a gentle application of force to the brake pad will actually stop me as well as moderate force on alloy rims. So not only is there a lack of 'linearity' but also a time-based component to the braking. Took me all of one hard brake application to fully understand it (knew what to expect from the earlier thread on these and other carbon rims) and to be able to brake well and quickly. Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, [...] And this means... what? This means the following: my subjective perception is that they accelerate better than wheels that are heavier at the rim. If the rims weigh less than aluminum rims, the difference is on the order of a quarter of one percent of total bike plus rider weight: *not the stuff that significantly easier climbing is made of. The benefits of these rims are in the realm (based on my current experience, more to come) of being a great combination of aero AND light weight that I cannot get from an alloy rim. These are not generally for duffers, and alloy rims are, I agree, the best most cost effective solution for most people. I can see you are in the camp that feels that rotating weight is meaningless . Not to start that whole kerfuffle again. Tom Ace D'ohBoy |
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