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The death of rim brakes?



 
 
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  #121  
Old March 15th 19, 12:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
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Posts: 805
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 17:13:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/14/2019 4:39 PM, James wrote:
On 14/3/19 3:54 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


I read something to that effect the other day. Some sort of
environmentalist site I think. I wonder what the tree huggers do when
a cougar eats their pet dog :-)


I think that is acceptable because ... nature.

I'm not against environmental issues at all, just those who propose
some "solution" without any thought at all. People that protest fox
hunting while eating a McDonalds hamburger, for instance :-)


There was something similar I read a little while back, about a
Queensland politician who was photographed next to a pile of dead feral
pigs.* Apparently it is an annual event, to go shoot a heap of feral
pigs, where he is from.* Some city greens got all up tight about it and
proposed that the pigs should be rounded up and sent to a pasture of
their own somewhere.* I think they were being serious.* Made it all the
more laughable.


Around here it's the extreme White Tailed Deer population. They are
harming many other species in the forests by eating the entire understory.

There are people who want to give them contraceptives instead of
shooting them.



I read somewhere that the population of white tailed deer in New
Hampshire is actually higher today than it was in the late 1600's when
the Pale Faces arrived.

As for the use of contraceptives, think of the mental anguish of the
poor female deer who cannot conceive.

--
Cheers,
John B.


Ads
  #122  
Old March 15th 19, 12:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
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Posts: 805
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 16:22:10 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/14/2019 3:39 PM, James wrote:
On 14/3/19 3:54 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


I read something to that effect the other day. Some sort of
environmentalist site I think. I wonder what the tree
huggers do when
a cougar eats their pet dog :-)


I think that is acceptable because ... nature.

I'm not against environmental issues at all, just those
who propose
some "solution" without any thought at all. People that
protest fox
hunting while eating a McDonalds hamburger, for instance :-)


There was something similar I read a little while back,
about a Queensland politician who was photographed next to a
pile of dead feral pigs. Apparently it is an annual event,
to go shoot a heap of feral pigs, where he is from. Some
city greens got all up tight about it and proposed that the
pigs should be rounded up and sent to a pasture of their own
somewhere. I think they were being serious. Made it all
the more laughable.


This is why we can't have satire now.

Our government in its wisdom is airdropping immigrant
(Canadian) wolves into Isle Royale National Park to decrease
the overpopulated elk/moose. Suggestions for a high-ticket
hunt were rejected despite great interest.

Being eaten alive by wolves is so much more humane...


Doesn't one require a sleigh and a troika for that?

--
Cheers,
John B.


  #123  
Old March 15th 19, 01:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default The death of rim brakes?

On 15/3/19 10:11 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 17:13:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/14/2019 4:39 PM, James wrote:
On 14/3/19 3:54 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


I read something to that effect the other day. Some sort of
environmentalist site I think. I wonder what the tree huggers do when
a cougar eats their pet dog :-)


I think that is acceptable because ... nature.

I'm not against environmental issues at all, just those who propose
some "solution" without any thought at all. People that protest fox
hunting while eating a McDonalds hamburger, for instance :-)

There was something similar I read a little while back, about a
Queensland politician who was photographed next to a pile of dead feral
pigs.¬* Apparently it is an annual event, to go shoot a heap of feral
pigs, where he is from.¬* Some city greens got all up tight about it and
proposed that the pigs should be rounded up and sent to a pasture of
their own somewhere.¬* I think they were being serious.¬* Made it all the
more laughable.


Around here it's the extreme White Tailed Deer population. They are
harming many other species in the forests by eating the entire understory.

There are people who want to give them contraceptives instead of
shooting them.



I read somewhere that the population of white tailed deer in New
Hampshire is actually higher today than it was in the late 1600's when
the Pale Faces arrived.

As for the use of contraceptives, think of the mental anguish of the
poor female deer who cannot conceive.


The male deer might be in terrible distress thinking he's firing blanks!

--
JS
  #124  
Old March 15th 19, 01:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
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Posts: 805
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 11:27:14 +1100, James
wrote:

On 15/3/19 10:11 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 17:13:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/14/2019 4:39 PM, James wrote:
On 14/3/19 3:54 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


I read something to that effect the other day. Some sort of
environmentalist site I think. I wonder what the tree huggers do when
a cougar eats their pet dog :-)


I think that is acceptable because ... nature.

I'm not against environmental issues at all, just those who propose
some "solution" without any thought at all. People that protest fox
hunting while eating a McDonalds hamburger, for instance :-)

There was something similar I read a little while back, about a
Queensland politician who was photographed next to a pile of dead feral
pigs.* Apparently it is an annual event, to go shoot a heap of feral
pigs, where he is from.* Some city greens got all up tight about it and
proposed that the pigs should be rounded up and sent to a pasture of
their own somewhere.* I think they were being serious.* Made it all the
more laughable.

Around here it's the extreme White Tailed Deer population. They are
harming many other species in the forests by eating the entire understory.

There are people who want to give them contraceptives instead of
shooting them.



I read somewhere that the population of white tailed deer in New
Hampshire is actually higher today than it was in the late 1600's when
the Pale Faces arrived.

As for the use of contraceptives, think of the mental anguish of the
poor female deer who cannot conceive.


The male deer might be in terrible distress thinking he's firing blanks!


I'm not sure but I suspect that the Buck's attitude is "
jump it and run" as I believe that the white tailed deer female is
only receptive for a 24 hour period every year and a fellow needs to
be fast on his feet :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


  #125  
Old March 15th 19, 01:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,623
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 7:07:22 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 07:39:01 +1100, James
wrote:

On 14/3/19 3:54 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


I read something to that effect the other day. Some sort of
environmentalist site I think. I wonder what the tree huggers do when
a cougar eats their pet dog :-)


I think that is acceptable because ... nature.

I'm not against environmental issues at all, just those who propose
some "solution" without any thought at all. People that protest fox
hunting while eating a McDonalds hamburger, for instance :-)


There was something similar I read a little while back, about a
Queensland politician who was photographed next to a pile of dead feral
pigs. Apparently it is an annual event, to go shoot a heap of feral
pigs, where he is from. Some city greens got all up tight about it and
proposed that the pigs should be rounded up and sent to a pasture of
their own somewhere. I think they were being serious. Made it all the
more laughable.


My usual argument for the more obnoxious Environmental is to ask
something like "Oh! Will you take a pair of wild pigs at your house".

Their usual response, "Oh! The government's got to do that" to which I
reply, "Are you willing to pay more in taxes to take care of the
pigs?"

The point is that most, if not all, of the devoted are not willing to
actually do anything about what they are ranting and waving their arms
about.

--
Cheers,
John B.


I just love the environmentalists and animal lovers. Some of them re absolutely clueless.

Many years ago I rescued and raised to racoon kits*. One of them used to climb up on me and wrap himself around my neck and go to sleep. He liked children and because of that I'd often take him to a nearby school to do a presentation with the children there. One cool day I was walking to the school and the racoon was wrapped around my neck and dozing. Some woman came up to me and started to berate me for having a dead racoon fur just to keep my neck warm. then she tried to grab the racoon fur and abscond with it. I still chuckle today when I recall the look on her face when the racoon hissed at her and her response, "Oh my God it's alive!" I told her not to be so hasty to judge things.

Cheers

* When I found the two racoon kits it was clear they were abandoned. Unfortunately I could not interest any of the animal welfare groups in our area to look after them and thus I was the one who raised them.
  #126  
Old March 15th 19, 01:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,317
Default The death of rim brakes?

John B. Slocomb writes:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 11:28:24 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. Slocomb writes:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 10:53:33 +1100, James
wrote:

On 14/3/19 9:36 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote:
On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim
brakes a dead deal.


Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive
and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that
still have drum brakes in front?

On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are
inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it
had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and
after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim
brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally
hear aluminum being eaten.

If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy.


A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes.¬* Hose them off and they'll
be fine.


We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked horribly
grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy in winter.

The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on
long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS ...
and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period.


I don't know how my rims survived, MTB riding the wet and muddy forests
tracks in Winter.

Furthermore, how did I survive inferior rim brakes without the chance to
spritz from my bottle and "Phssst ... HISSSS ..."...

I shall commence counting my lucky stars.

Move to California and you will be able to ride with the Mountain
Lions :-)


Those are pussycats compared to the drop bears in Oz.


Tight! But of course, while mountain lions have killed humans there is
no known record of a drop bear having done so.


They're very patient, makes them even more scary.
  #127  
Old March 15th 19, 01:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,302
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 3:58:47 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 10:07:53 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 12:59:35 PM UTC-4, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/13/2019 4:36 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 16:07:48 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 3/13/2019 3:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 3:17:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
Snipped

I don't get the obsession of reusing spokes. If that turns
you on, fine.
IMHO 'best rim for this rider/usage' can be severely limited
by adding 'within poorly supported ERD'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I don't think it's an obsession to use the old spokes. I think it's because many of us just like to tape the new rim to the old rim and then move the spokes to the new rim without having to unlace t he old wheel. Plus it saves a fair bit of money. Where I am shops cut spokes to length and t hen thread them. My understanding is that those cut threads make a weaker spoke than do spokes with rolled threads.

I have a couple of extra wheels here that have tubular rims on t hem but the hubs and spokes are in excellent condition. If I could get a clincher rim to match the tubular rim so I could use the old spokes by taping the new rim to the old and transferring the spokes to the new rim I would.

YMMV

Cheers

I see 14 gauge spokes with nipples listed on Amazon for $0.10 each in
lots of 36.

Please point me there! The lowest I can find on Amazon are ~$0.27 (US)
each. I looked on Ebay and couldn't get anywhere near that price point.
If they look reliable I'll use them to build wheels at a local
non-profit / pro-bono community bike shop.

Mark J.

I couldn't find the site I originally quoted :-(
But there were a number of sites offering spokes in sets of 36 for
$10.00 or less. Given that the TREK bikes I see listed range from
$11,799, with disc's, to $849, with conventional brakes, a measly ten
bucks is chicken feed.

For high-end Treks, sure. For functional recycled utility bikes that
will be sold on a sliding scale or given away, not so much.

The shop is sitting on a bunch of new donated rims, and it harvests
hubs, many decent ones, from otherwise dead donated wheels. My goal is
to turn those resources into working wheels through donated labor. Put
it all together, and it's marginally competitive with complete wholesale
wheels due to the cost of spokes. (And it's a fair question whether
wheel building is an efficient use of donated skilled time.)

My conjecture is that the rise of the boxed-wheels market has raised the
price of spokes dramatically, as spokes' drop in wholesale/retail volume
requires a much higher price to be worth stocking. I remember getting
basic but name-brand spokes for 20 cents each, now it's closer to a dollar.

Andy M., did I guess right about the market?

Mark J.


Where I am the bicycle shops don't stock different lengths of spokes. They cut and thread spokes to the length you want. Those spokes are a little over a dollar a piece Canadian. SO a 36 spoke wheel is at least $36.00 for new spokes. Add in the cost of a new rim and you can get a reasonable quality Alex rim wheel. That further lessens the demand for spokes. It's a vicious downward spiral.

Cheers


Two or three years ago I popped a couple of spokes in my rear wheel
and didn't have any new spokes so went down to my local bike shop and
bought a set of brand new Shimano wheels. For which I paid something
like $50. I'm still using the wheels today and they still run true.

Why in the world would anyone want to go to all the trouble of
building a set of wheels :-)


It doesn't pay if you're building a cheap wheel and don't own the parts. It pays if you own the parts and only need to replace a rim -- and it can really pay if you're building an expensive set of wheels. You can build a 28s wheel on, say, DT240s with a nice rim like a H Plus Son Hydra/HED Belgium and end up with something as nice as a HED Ardennes disc for half the price and maybe even less weight. Knock yourself out -- go with a CF rim. And it will be user serviceable using conventional parts -- no Zicral $5 spokes and threaded rim sockets. You can easily (or pretty easily) build a wheel that is light and durable as an expensive name brand. And if you don't build, even getting the local Bohemian wheel builder to do it isn't that expensive. Enve wheels, for example, are just Enve rims on nice hubs with good spokes. Our local wheelbuilder, Sugar, builds essentially the same wheel for slightly less. https://sugarwheelworks.com/ Now, if the Enve goes on sale, the price gap goes the other way -- but at least you supported a local business and some nice folks.

-- Jay Beattie



  #128  
Old March 15th 19, 01:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,879
Default The death of rim brakes?

On 3/14/2019 5:58 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 10:07:53 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 12:59:35 PM UTC-4, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/13/2019 4:36 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 16:07:48 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 3/13/2019 3:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 3:17:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
Snipped

I don't get the obsession of reusing spokes. If that turns
you on, fine.
IMHO 'best rim for this rider/usage' can be severely limited
by adding 'within poorly supported ERD'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I don't think it's an obsession to use the old spokes. I think it's because many of us just like to tape the new rim to the old rim and then move the spokes to the new rim without having to unlace t he old wheel. Plus it saves a fair bit of money. Where I am shops cut spokes to length and t hen thread them. My understanding is that those cut threads make a weaker spoke than do spokes with rolled threads.

I have a couple of extra wheels here that have tubular rims on t hem but the hubs and spokes are in excellent condition. If I could get a clincher rim to match the tubular rim so I could use the old spokes by taping the new rim to the old and transferring the spokes to the new rim I would.

YMMV

Cheers

I see 14 gauge spokes with nipples listed on Amazon for $0.10 each in
lots of 36.

Please point me there! The lowest I can find on Amazon are ~$0.27 (US)
each. I looked on Ebay and couldn't get anywhere near that price point.
If they look reliable I'll use them to build wheels at a local
non-profit / pro-bono community bike shop.

Mark J.

I couldn't find the site I originally quoted :-(
But there were a number of sites offering spokes in sets of 36 for
$10.00 or less. Given that the TREK bikes I see listed range from
$11,799, with disc's, to $849, with conventional brakes, a measly ten
bucks is chicken feed.

For high-end Treks, sure. For functional recycled utility bikes that
will be sold on a sliding scale or given away, not so much.

The shop is sitting on a bunch of new donated rims, and it harvests
hubs, many decent ones, from otherwise dead donated wheels. My goal is
to turn those resources into working wheels through donated labor. Put
it all together, and it's marginally competitive with complete wholesale
wheels due to the cost of spokes. (And it's a fair question whether
wheel building is an efficient use of donated skilled time.)

My conjecture is that the rise of the boxed-wheels market has raised the
price of spokes dramatically, as spokes' drop in wholesale/retail volume
requires a much higher price to be worth stocking. I remember getting
basic but name-brand spokes for 20 cents each, now it's closer to a dollar.

Andy M., did I guess right about the market?

Mark J.


Where I am the bicycle shops don't stock different lengths of spokes. They cut and thread spokes to the length you want. Those spokes are a little over a dollar a piece Canadian. SO a 36 spoke wheel is at least $36.00 for new spokes. Add in the cost of a new rim and you can get a reasonable quality Alex rim wheel. That further lessens the demand for spokes. It's a vicious downward spiral.

Cheers


Two or three years ago I popped a couple of spokes in my rear wheel
and didn't have any new spokes so went down to my local bike shop and
bought a set of brand new Shimano wheels. For which I paid something
like $50. I'm still using the wheels today and they still run true.

Why in the world would anyone want to go to all the trouble of
building a set of wheels :-)


Shimano are grey/black. 'nuff said!

http://www.yellowjersey.org/fixrrec.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #129  
Old March 15th 19, 02:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default The death of rim brakes?

On 15/3/19 2:17 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/13/2019 6:32 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 11:13, AMuzi wrote:

How many new bicycles have drum brakes? Vanishingly few.


This was just meant as an example. Bicycles have largely remained in
the stone age, like chuck wagons where a chunk of wood pressed against
the steel ring of the wheels to brake. So bicycles kind of skipped a
technology.


Bikes didn't skip drum brake technology because bikes are primitive.
Only a very few bikes adopted drum brakes because that technology wasn't
optimum for bikes.

It's simplistic at best to pretend what's best for one application is
best for all applications. Every design choice comes with benefits and
detriments, and those are not the same for a 4000 pound car as for a 20
pound bike.

Bicycle rim brakes have worked fine for over 99.999% users for the past
100+ years. When mountain bikes came into fashion, some off-roaders
found a different set of benefits vs. detriments, and discs made sense
for them. But then fashion and marketing took over, pushing discs toward
road bikes.

Yes, we'll get a few testimonials here claiming discs are "better." We
get very few details on benefits vs. detriments.



For a while, the trend for road bikes was very narrow tyres pumped up to
very high pressure. 18 mm of tyre is pretty skinny.

Gradually the tyre width had become standard at 23 mm for road bikes.

Now there is an emerging trend to ride wider tyres, with some claiming
much wider tyres are not only as fast but faster! I suspect there is a
diminishing return with wind resistance.

Now I use a 25 mm rear tyre (that measures 27 mm), and to remove the
wheel I must release the brake lever (Campagnolo) or deflate the tyre.
With a 23 mm tyre I don't need to do that. With a disc brake I don't
need to fiddle with the brakes regardless of tyre width. That's a benefit.

In fact sometimes when you go to shove a wheel in with rim brakes and
centre or dual pivot callipers, you can catch the calliper and move it
from centred. Then you have to fix that or have rubbing brakes. That
doesn't happen with discs.

It is possible with hydraulic disc callipers to squeeze the brake lever
while the wheel is out, and then have trouble moving the pads apart
again to insert the wheel. That's a detriment, but doesn't affect cable
actuated disc brake callipers.

Hydraulic disc callipers are self adjusting like car hydraulic disc
callipers. Cable actuated disc callipers are not. Benefit and detriment.

Hydraulic disc systems sometimes need bleeding. This requires either a
visit to a shop or a bit more kit ($30 - $50) for the home maintenance
person. Detriment. Probably not good if you are out on a tour. Cables
are probably more reliable. Cable operated discs work fine, and there
are also cable/hydraulic systems, where the calliper is hydraulic and
self adjusting, and actuated via a cable.

Disc brake modulation is generally better. That is you can hold the
point of not quite skidding more easily. Benefit.

Disc brakes tend to work better in wet weather, or IOW, work the same
regardless of wet weather. Rim brakes rarely work as well when the rims
are wet.

Rim brakes on carbon fibre rims has never been a happy marriage, but
with disc brakes that problem is eliminated. Thus aerodynamic, strong,
stiff, light weight rims are now easier to manufacture and use - made of
carbon fibre.

Rim brakes do erode rims. Disc brakes do not. I guess the disc rotor
will wear out, but I'd rather replace a rotor than a rim.

It seems to me that many people try disc brakes and find few drawbacks.
That's just my opinion, unsubstantiated by statistics.

Are rim brakes good enough? Sure! They have been for a long time. Are
disc brakes better? Yes I think so. Not outstandingly, but better.
I'm not about to have my road bike modified to take disc brakes, and I
wouldn't let the choice of brakes on a new bike dictate what I bought.
YMMV.

--
JS
  #130  
Old March 15th 19, 02:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,879
Default The death of rim brakes?

On 3/14/2019 8:36 PM, James wrote:
On 15/3/19 2:17 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/13/2019 6:32 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 11:13, AMuzi wrote:

How many new bicycles have drum brakes? Vanishingly few.


This was just meant as an example. Bicycles have largely
remained in the stone age, like chuck wagons where a
chunk of wood pressed against the steel ring of the
wheels to brake. So bicycles kind of skipped a technology.


Bikes didn't skip drum brake technology because bikes are
primitive. Only a very few bikes adopted drum brakes
because that technology wasn't optimum for bikes.

It's simplistic at best to pretend what's best for one
application is best for all applications. Every design
choice comes with benefits and detriments, and those are
not the same for a 4000 pound car as for a 20 pound bike.

Bicycle rim brakes have worked fine for over 99.999% users
for the past 100+ years. When mountain bikes came into
fashion, some off-roaders found a different set of
benefits vs. detriments, and discs made sense for them.
But then fashion and marketing took over, pushing discs
toward road bikes.

Yes, we'll get a few testimonials here claiming discs are
"better." We get very few details on benefits vs. detriments.



For a while, the trend for road bikes was very narrow tyres
pumped up to very high pressure. 18 mm of tyre is pretty
skinny.

Gradually the tyre width had become standard at 23 mm for
road bikes.

Now there is an emerging trend to ride wider tyres, with
some claiming much wider tyres are not only as fast but
faster! I suspect there is a diminishing return with wind
resistance.

Now I use a 25 mm rear tyre (that measures 27 mm), and to
remove the wheel I must release the brake lever (Campagnolo)
or deflate the tyre. With a 23 mm tyre I don't need to do
that. With a disc brake I don't need to fiddle with the
brakes regardless of tyre width. That's a benefit.

In fact sometimes when you go to shove a wheel in with rim
brakes and centre or dual pivot callipers, you can catch the
calliper and move it from centred. Then you have to fix
that or have rubbing brakes. That doesn't happen with discs.

It is possible with hydraulic disc callipers to squeeze the
brake lever while the wheel is out, and then have trouble
moving the pads apart again to insert the wheel. That's a
detriment, but doesn't affect cable actuated disc brake
callipers.

Hydraulic disc callipers are self adjusting like car
hydraulic disc callipers. Cable actuated disc callipers are
not. Benefit and detriment.

Hydraulic disc systems sometimes need bleeding. This
requires either a visit to a shop or a bit more kit ($30 -
$50) for the home maintenance person. Detriment. Probably
not good if you are out on a tour. Cables are probably more
reliable. Cable operated discs work fine, and there are also
cable/hydraulic systems, where the calliper is hydraulic and
self adjusting, and actuated via a cable.

Disc brake modulation is generally better. That is you can
hold the point of not quite skidding more easily. Benefit.

Disc brakes tend to work better in wet weather, or IOW, work
the same regardless of wet weather. Rim brakes rarely work
as well when the rims are wet.

Rim brakes on carbon fibre rims has never been a happy
marriage, but with disc brakes that problem is eliminated.
Thus aerodynamic, strong, stiff, light weight rims are now
easier to manufacture and use - made of carbon fibre.

Rim brakes do erode rims. Disc brakes do not. I guess the
disc rotor will wear out, but I'd rather replace a rotor
than a rim.

It seems to me that many people try disc brakes and find few
drawbacks. That's just my opinion, unsubstantiated by
statistics.

Are rim brakes good enough? Sure! They have been for a
long time. Are disc brakes better? Yes I think so. Not
outstandingly, but better. I'm not about to have my road
bike modified to take disc brakes, and I wouldn't let the
choice of brakes on a new bike dictate what I bought. YMMV.


So a rear hydraulic disc is just as good as a fixed gear
wheel (without the warped rotor thing). Check.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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