Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009

On Dec 15, 5:05 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Dec 15, 5:19 pm, Jay Beattie wrote:



FYI for Frank:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHmTo...ayer_embedded#!

Interesting. I hadn't heard about that. How's enforcement going?


The cool thing about it is that it would sorta at least seem to assume
passing driver is at fault if he ever hits a "cyclist". If so, nice,
huh?

But I see the new law doesn't apply when the cyclist is in a bike
lane.

Yeah, that sucks, as do the other exceptions.

What's the required passing distance then?


Motorists always have to yield to "cyclist" in the bike lane.

On Dec 15, 8:01*pm, James wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Dec 15, 4:07 pm, Duane H bert wrote:
On 12/15/2010 3:43 PM, James wrote:

I tried a bit of lane taking last night. About 8pm, still light thanks
to daylight savings, and we were two abreast on a road with two lanes
each way. Traffic was light. We had stopped at a traffic light, then
rode off, still two abreast. I was furthest from the gutter, about
middle of the lane.
Yup, there you have it. Some utter prick decides to buzz the tower. They
don't make rulers short enough to measure such small distances as he
left between his car mirror and my handlebars.
To top it off, the ass hole beeped his horn as he skimmed passed.
So much for take the lane, it makes them leave bigger gaps!
Or will Frank say, lucky I wasn't skulking in the gutter, he probably
would have hit me - nah, impossible. Fear from the rear doesn't exist,
right Frank?

Oh, I know the fear exists! *James and Duane have stated their fears
quite frequently!

Aren't you happy that you had that extra distance to the right to
maneuver in the split second that this happened?

Vehicles don't pass in "a split second," Duane. *Once again, don't
exaggerate.

WTF? *With a passing speed of 30km/h, over 8m/s IINM, which means the
majority of the car has passed in less than half a second. *If that is
not split second enough, what is?

Are you claiming you had no way of knowing he was passing until the
front of the car was immediately next to you?

James, if you're so afraid of being run down from behind, get a rear
view mirror. You'll be able to see cars when they're 300 meters
behind you. That will give you plenty of time- far more than half a
second - to dive into the gutter, should you choose.

- Frank Krygowski

On Dec 15, 6:43 am, Phil W Lee wrote:

snip

... when the opposing traffic has passed and the truck pulls out to
pass, move across to increase the clearance as you wave your thanks
for his patience.


I hang on with both hands usually when a truck passes.

snip

On Dec 15, 12:51 pm, James wrote:


... 6.5 foot car... 2 feet into the opposing lane... 42 inches...

I don't recall Frank ever mentioning that in his hypothetical scenario
the road had an opposing lane. You're making it up as you go along ;-)

I imagined a one way street, like this. http://tinyurl.com/39puzhl


It started out a ten foot lane (could be a ten foot road). Then it
got a curb and ten-thirty mroe feet. Then a sidewalk...

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Dec 15, 8:01 pm, James wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Vehicles don't pass in "a split second," Duane. Once again, don't
exaggerate.

WTF? With a passing speed of 30km/h, over 8m/s IINM, which means the
majority of the car has passed in less than half a second. If that is
not split second enough, what is?

Are you claiming you had no way of knowing he was passing until the
front of the car was immediately next to you?

Precisely. Very quiet car traveling at least at the speed limit,
performing an intentionally dangerous and threatening maneuver designed
to give me the ****s, and succeeded.

James, if you're so afraid of being run down from behind, get a rear
view mirror. You'll be able to see cars when they're 300 meters
behind you.

I have one in my car, but I don't drive staring into it. There are far
more frequent things to be aware of in front. Likewise on a bicycle.
Usually I hear a vehicle approaching from behind and take a brief look
over my shoulder to see what and how they're driving to plan my next move.

You must be very fearful as well, if you are continually looking in your
mirror for approaching vehicles.

JS.

On Dec 15, 4:53 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Dec 15, 4:07 pm, Duane Hébert wrote:



On 12/15/2010 3:43 PM, James wrote:

I tried a bit of lane taking last night. About 8pm, still light thanks
to daylight savings, and we were two abreast on a road with two lanes
each way. Traffic was light. We had stopped at a traffic light, then
rode off, still two abreast. I was furthest from the gutter, about
middle of the lane.

Yup, there you have it. Some utter prick decides to buzz the tower. They
don't make rulers short enough to measure such small distances as he
left between his car mirror and my handlebars.

To top it off, the ass hole beeped his horn as he skimmed passed.

So much for take the lane, it makes them leave bigger gaps!

Or will Frank say, lucky I wasn't skulking in the gutter, he probably
would have hit me - nah, impossible. Fear from the rear doesn't exist,
right Frank?

Oh, I know the fear exists! James and Duane have stated their fears
quite frequently!


I believe also in this phenomenon of fear. I don't much like it,
but...

Be the dream. Live the dream. Touch the dream. (Touch it.)

(Sorry. Somebody on TV said that last part as I was typing.)

Aren't you happy that you had that extra distance to the right to
maneuver in the split second that this happened?

Vehicles don't pass in "a split second," Duane. Once again, don't
exaggerate.

I tried to ask for personal opinions about this and Frank jumped in with
his stats and I didn't really get an answer.

I thought I've answered everything, so I don't know what "this" you're
referring to. But my opinion generally matches the data quite well,

I guess that's as perfectly valid way of life as my particular one -
whatever floats your boat.

snip


Again, this matches my experience. It matches the experience of my
best cycling friends...

If I agree with you can I be one of your best cycilng friends? :-)

, and of many other cyclists I know well and ride
with.

It doesn't mean that no close passes will ever happen. Nothing will
be 100% effective with certain drivers. But it certainly helps, as
shown by every investigation I've seen.


I'm thinking about running that second light on my back again anyway.
Visibility is really poor this time of year what with the rain and the
dark. I don't like getting buzzed, but it's not what I'm afraid of -
it's the getting hit part, and I just mostly try not to think about
it.

(I know, I said the word.)

On Dec 15, 5:35*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Dec 15, 3:51*pm, James wrote:



I don't recall Frank ever mentioning that in his hypothetical scenario
the road had an opposing lane.

Wow. *Amazing.

Did you? Any mention of opposing traffic? Density of traffic? How
about speed or speed limit? Configuration of road edge? Parked cars?
How about a curb? Pedestrians? How about a sidewalk? Legal passing
zone? Uphill? Downhill? Line of sight? Straight? Curved? Time of day?
Into the sun? Away from the sun? Weather? Wet pavement?

Yet you expected there was a formula answer (" 'Roughly six feet from
the curb', or 'Four feet' or 'One foot' or whatever." ).

And insulted those who noted that "it depends."

Yes, Frank you are amazing.

DR

On Dec 15, 5:54*pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:

Which planet is this on?

You wore that out a long time ago.

You could at least TRY to come up with something clever for your
vacuous muck racking.

DR

On Dec 15, 6:02*pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 12/15/2010 11:16 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
* [...] I think only DirtRoadie is allowed to actually ridicule,

* [...]

+1 x 10^99

I appreciate the (unrequired) permsission and hereby delegate it to
anyone else who wishes to use it.
But, holy crap, Tom, your recycled responses are well past their "use
by" date.
DR

On Dec 15, 6:11*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Dec 15, 8:01*pm, James wrote:





Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Dec 15, 4:07 pm, Duane H bert wrote:
On 12/15/2010 3:43 PM, James wrote:

I tried a bit of lane taking last night. About 8pm, still light thanks
to daylight savings, and we were two abreast on a road with two lanes
each way. Traffic was light. We had stopped at a traffic light, then
rode off, still two abreast. I was furthest from the gutter, about
middle of the lane.
Yup, there you have it. Some utter prick decides to buzz the tower. They
don't make rulers short enough to measure such small distances as he
left between his car mirror and my handlebars.
To top it off, the ass hole beeped his horn as he skimmed passed.
So much for take the lane, it makes them leave bigger gaps!
Or will Frank say, lucky I wasn't skulking in the gutter, he probably
would have hit me - nah, impossible. Fear from the rear doesn't exist,
right Frank?

Oh, I know the fear exists! *James and Duane have stated their fears
quite frequently!

Aren't you happy that you had that extra distance to the right to
maneuver in the split second that this happened?

Vehicles don't pass in "a split second," Duane. *Once again, don't
exaggerate.

WTF? *With a passing speed of 30km/h, over 8m/s IINM, which means the
majority of the car has passed in less than half a second. *If that is
not split second enough, what is?

Are you claiming you had no way of knowing he was passing until the
front of the car was immediately next to you?

James, if you're so afraid of being run down from behind, get a rear
view mirror. *You'll be able to see cars when they're 300 meters
behind you. *That will give you plenty of time- far more than half a
second - *to dive into the gutter, should you choose.

We are glad to see that that you would never ridicule another poster.

But Frank, I think you're setting James up. After all, you have
already told us how dangerous it is to watch behind you. Mirrors only
encourage that.

So when you play hall monitor, how do you know when to do your little
side-to-side dance?

DR