The Graciousness Of A Champion

"Tom Paterson" wrote in message
...
From: "Samuel Johnson"

Could you translate that into Middle-English so that all on rbr might
share
your thoughts?? :-)

You shared already. Not admitting the fact doesn't change the reality.

Furthermore, *you* wrote "rediculous", "the provide", while calling
language
scholars who do not agree with your (hypocritical) version of
"standardization"
"morons".

"Middle English" (no hyphen) is the English of c1150-c1475. Sorry, I am
unable
to translate. Maybe you could find a moron at a local university to help
you.
Suggest you carefully proofread any written requests before you
send. --Tom
Paterson

Perhaps it was garbled coming across the veil from the other side?

"Nick Burns" wrote in message
...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message

Wrong yet again, Henry.

You are wasting your breath.


Right you are. It may be time to just ignor him.

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
link.net...

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in
message t...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in
message t...
Campionissimo is Italian for champion. Dictionary, by your logic.

Wrong yet again, Henry. The Italian word for champion is campione.




Fine.

Problem is, we're speaking English. The word champion is the loftiest we
have.

Think back to language arts in elementary school. Do you remember those
little words called "adjectives" that are used a modifiers? Of course you
do.

So, in English we can speak of a plethora of different champions such as
"great" champions as opposed to just a champion. There are many cycling
champions but few great ones who win multiple grand tours or even multiple
national championships. We can also speak of a national champion, a state
road race champion, a time trial champion, a RAAM champion, etc.

The Italians have a long tradition in cycling of making the distinction
between campione and campionissimo. Linguistically, they just do it
differently



In our language, I'd say the term "Winner" would apply to Hamilton, but not
champion. It diminishes the term too much to apply it to everyone who wins a
big race.

Look at our other sports. Football for instance. There is one champion right
now in the NFL, the Tampa Bay Bucanneers. Yet, every week half the teams win
games. Are those 16 games champions that week? No. Winners? Yes.


http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/rid...ned_overall.tx
t

1 Lance Armstrong, USA 6940
2 Jan Ullrich, GER 5300
3 Erik Zabel, GER 5240
4 Richard Virenque, FRA 4420
5 Johan Museeuw, BEL 4050
6 Marco Pantani, ITA 3460
7 Alex Zulle, SWI 2450
8 Michele Bartoli, ITA 2360
9 Mario Cipollini, ITA 2000
10 Gilberto Simoni, ITA 1920
11 Joseba Beloki, ESP 1760
12 Peter Van Petegem, BEL 1690
13 Pavel Tonkov, RUS 1400
14 Andrea Tafi, ITA 1350
15 Francesco Casagrande, ITA 1300
16 Pascal Richard, SWI 1280
17 Paolo Bettini, ITA 1260
18 Ivan Gotti, ITA 1200
19 Jose Maria Jimenez, ESP 1200
20 Roberto Heras, ESP 1150
21 Oscar Camenzind, SWI 960
22 Oscar Freire, ESP 960
23 Paolo Savoldelli, ITA 900
24 Alexander Vinokourov, KAZ 900
25 Stefano Garzelli, ITA 900
26 Frank Vandenbroucke, BEL 840
27 Raimondas Rumsas, LIT 760
28 Angel Casero, ESP 750
29 Mariano Piccoli, ITA 720
30 Dimitri Konyshev, RUS 680
31 Robbie McEwen, AUS 680
32 Tom Steels, BEL 680
33 Gianluca Bortolami, ITA 650
-------34 Tyler Hamilton, USA 580 --------------------
35 Romans Vainsteins, LAT 520
36 Erik Dekker, HOL 520
37 Jacky Durand, FRA 500
38 Aitor Gonzalez, ESP 500
39 Bobby Julich, USA 480
40 Christophe Rinero, FRA 480

snip

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in
message

Look at our other sports. Football for instance.

Why would you compare winning a bike race to winning a team stadium sport,
especially when discussing how
distinctive (or not) it is to win? That is plain retarded. It shows your
desperation to hang on to you erroneous position. Why not compare bike
racers to track and field, or any other events where there is one winner
from a "field" of athletes? Is that not more reasonable?



Tyler Hamilton is a champion bike racer. No, he is not the "ultimate"
champion, the greatest champion, or even "campionissimo". You are trying
desperately to be the champion RBR argument winner, but you have lost this
battle.

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in message et...
What about the riders whose palmares is worse? How far down does the label
apply?

Some definitions of champion:

champion (chàm´pê-en) noun
1. One that wins first place or first prize in a competition



I've won ~25 races (not including track) in 11 years. Should I be called a
champion?

You are a co-champion since you won on a TANDEM!!!


Thanks, Ken.


(In my not very humble opinion, hell no)

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in message et...
"Samuel Johnson" wrote in message
link.net...


Are the 33 riders who ahead of Tyler on cyclinhalloffame.com also
champions?

What about the riders whose palmares is worse? How far down does the
label
apply?

The label applies to one who wins races at the highest level. Winning
LBL alone qualifies Hamilton to be lclassified as a champion. Certainly
not
a campionissimo, but a champion.


Campionissimo is [NOT?] Italian for champion. Dictionary, by your logic.

If the term is applied so that anyone who has won a big race is a champion,
then there are many of them out there, even among current riders.

IMO, it should be reserved for the very best (and only a few). Otherwise, it
loses its meaning. That's not to say that Hamilton (or Hincapie, winner of
Ghent-Wevelgem) will not eventually reach those heights. But they're not
there yet.

Rankings of current riders:

http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/rid...ed_overall.txt

1 Lance Armstrong, USA 6940
2 Jan Ullrich, GER 5300
3 Erik Zabel, GER 5240
4 Richard Virenque, FRA 4420
5 Johan Museeuw, BEL 4050
6 Marco Pantani, ITA 3460
7 Alex Zulle, SWI 2450
8 Michele Bartoli, ITA 2360
9 Mario Cipollini, ITA 2000

Virenque higher than Cipo, Museeuw, and Pantani??????

WTF?

-Ken

10 Gilberto Simoni, ITA 1920
11 Joseba Beloki, ESP 1760
12 Peter Van Petegem, BEL 1690
13 Pavel Tonkov, RUS 1400
14 Andrea Tafi, ITA 1350
15 Francesco Casagrande, ITA 1300
16 Pascal Richard, SWI 1280
17 Paolo Bettini, ITA 1260
18 Ivan Gotti, ITA 1200



..END.

"Jeff Jones" jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com wrote in message
. be...

"Samuel Johnson" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Tom Paterson" wrote in message
...

Prooved bi yer compreehinshun. Thaynkx.
--Tom Paterson, resident non-moron

Could you translate that into Middle-English so that all on rbr
might
share
your thoughts?? :-)

You're asking that with a name like Samuel Johnson?

Why do I think that he will have completely missed the reference?

In article ,
(K. J. Papai) wrote:

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in
message et...
\ 1 Lance Armstrong, USA 6940
2 Jan Ullrich, GER 5300
3 Erik Zabel, GER 5240
4 Richard Virenque, FRA 4420
5 Johan Museeuw, BEL 4050
6 Marco Pantani, ITA 3460
7 Alex Zulle, SWI 2450
8 Michele Bartoli, ITA 2360
9 Mario Cipollini, ITA 2000

Virenque higher than Cipo, Museeuw, and Pantani??????

If you look at the "all time" list, you will notice that Van Impe, who
has done virtually nothing besides a TdF win, his 6 KoM jerseys, and a
handfull of stage wins, is ranked 14th, before Binda (15th), Poulidor
(16th), Lemond (17th), or Fignon (25th), to name just a few who in my
opinion were much greater riders than him.

my gut feeling is that they tweaked a bit the points awarded to the
various categories so that they wouldn't end up with Coppi ranked 9th on
an "all-time" list as in this one:

http://www.cycling4all.com/a_cen01a.htm

In the case of Virenque, he has done at least 3 times podium + KoM,
which brings in a good number of points.


jyh.

--
================================================== ===================
jean-yves herve' /\
Department of Computer Science \/ e-mail --
and Statistics /\
University of Rhode Island \/ Tel. -- (401) 874-4400
Kingston, RI 02881-0816 /\ Fax. -- (401) 874-4617
USA \/
================================================== ===================

David N. Welton wrote:

"Kurgan Gringioni" writes:


Campionissimo is Italian for champion.


Heh... DUMBASS, Italian for champion is 'campione'. -issimo is an
'absolute superlative' meaning the greatest or most in this case, or
as an 'intensifier'.


'Campionissimo' isn't so much a label as a title. It would be in the
american dialect 'The champion of champions.' When someone in the
context of cycling refers to 'il Campionissimo', you have a pretty good
idea who they mean.

Nick Burns wrote:

"Richard Adams" wrote in message


'Campionissimo' isn't so much a label as a title. It would be in the
american dialect 'The champion of champions.' When someone in the
context of cycling refers to 'il Campionissimo', you have a pretty good
idea who they mean.


It is both. If you say "il", as in "THE" then that is Coppi. If you say
"un", then they are hyping another dude. Remember that the French, Italians
and Americans for that matter are sometimes guilty of excess hyperbole.

Oui, I mean, si!