The Joys & Pleasures of Cycling on Trails

It is going to turn around rather quickly when the dangers
become ever more apparent. Only a minority of fools engage in extreme
sports.

Well, as it's been growing for over 20 years and, after all that time, it's still being taken up by more young people and first time participants than hiking your proposition looks, shall we say, .... unlikely :-).

I do not see that 'trend' developing at all. I see it going in
just the opposite direction for many and various reasons. You need to look up
the word "fad".

Yes, Ed, a 'fad' that's lasted for decades ... I think you'll find that is called a trend.

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

It [mountain biking] is going to turn around rather quickly when the dangers
become ever more apparent. Only a minority of fools engage in extreme
sports.

Well, as it's been growing for over 20 years and, after all that time, it's still being taken up by more young people and first time participants than hiking your proposition looks, shall we say, .... unlikely :-).

I do not see that 'trend' developing at all. I see it going in
just the opposite direction for many and various reasons. You need to look up
the word "fad".

Yes, Ed, a 'fad' that's lasted for decades ... I think you'll find that is called a trend.

Trends come and go the same way fads do. What is going to kill mountain biking are all the deaths and injuries. Mountain biking is not considered an extreme sport, yet it racks up deaths and injuries just like most extreme sports. The vast majority of people in this world do not want to risk life and limb for a mere recreation. Only an extremely stupid minority of fools want to do that.

If you want an adrenalin rush I suggest you go to amusement parks and ride the roller coasters. That is a pretty safe thing to do.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

Trends come and go the same way fads do. What is going to kill
mountain biking are all the deaths and injuries. Mountain biking is not
considered an extreme sport, yet it racks up deaths and injuries just like most
extreme sports. The vast majority of people in this world do not want to risk
life and limb for a mere recreation. Only an extremely stupid minority of fools
want to do that.

Well, IF there were all these deaths and injuries then you might have a point. However, the statistics don't back you up ... Mountainbiking is relatively safe ... a rate of 1.54 per 1,000 exposures is less than soccer, rugby, american football, road cycling etc etc etc. (http://emj.bmj.com/content/early/201...9.086991.full).

So, once again, you're incorrect; mountainbiking produces injury and death statistics nowhere near 'extreme' sports.

We already had this conversation, and I posted links to a number
of MTB sites which have crash and injury sections. Anyone who rides a bike
understands that it is inherently unstable and they may fall off it.

It is a minority of cyclists who read that kind of ****. A
bike is NOT inherently unstable, but it most certainly is when you are riding on
a trail which was intended for walking.

Oh, a bike is not inherently unstable ? What nonsense. Try this ... ride into your drive, then dismount and leave your bike standing in the middle unsupported. If it's still upright an hour later then I'll agree that it's stable ... but ...

This is your judgement ... you approve of hikers and disapprove of
bikers. However, viewed objectively they are both doing the same thing ....
recreation in a natural environment.

I have already stated many times in another thread on this
newsgroup that hikers and bikers on trails are NOT doing the same thing at all.

And I have also stated that I don't care what you think, particularly since you are all over the place with your pronouncements. You're happy to permit running ... which is clearly not about "communing with nature" but have a huge issue with bikes.

"Communing with nature" is still recreation. You don't NEED to do it any more than you need to ride a mountainbike. They are both recreations.

And, even if you were correct, adults are entitled to risk their
own necks.

These so called adults will soon be suing the owners and
managers of these public and private lands for providing an unsafe venue for
recreation.

I am just waiting for the lawsuits to commence. Someone needs

to be held responsible for this carnage.

You and I live in very different worlds. In mine, an adult
is entitled to make their own decisions and then has to live with the
consequences. Who do you propose is sued ?

See above sentence. This thread is going to contain many
reports about cyclists who have seriously injured themselves doing what you are
doing - riding their bikes on trails. I wish them dead for doing what they are
doing, but you are far more cruel and callous because you encourage them. I want
them to stop; you want them to continue. Who is the real death merchant
here?

How the hell did we get to 'death merchant' and surely even you don't have the sheer effrontery to try and claim that you care about injuries to mountainbikers ? You've written enough times that you like to see them injured and killed in this thread. You don't want them to stop for their own good, you want them to stop so that you can enjoy your recreation in magnificent solitude.

I don't want anything other than that I, and they, have the right to choose.. I'm in favour of personal choice and personal responsibility. I have no issue with highlighting the real risks associated with activities so that people are participating with their eyes wide open. I support things like the Isle of Man TT despite the fact that there are several fatalities every year. I visit the Nurburgring regularly. As was posted on the epitaph to David Jefferies ... "Those who risk nothing do nothing, achieve nothing, become nothing". We are all going to die one day ... I strongly advise living first rather than worrying about it.

And, were your proposal to be adopted, think of all the other,
more dangerous, sports ... what would happen there ? No more American
Football for a start.

The fact is that most cyclists simply have no idea of how
dangerous it is to bikes on trails. They buy a particular style of bike, see the
trails and assume they are safe to ride. But they are NOT! This is fertile
ground for lawsuits. ALL football players know full well the dangers of playing
that incredibly stupid game. All the protective gear they wear tells the
tale.

The reality is that it's NOT that dangerous; all Vandeman's trolling still shows up, worldwide, hardly any fatalities compared with participants. The British Medical Journal, hardly a byword for supporting risky endeavours, also concludes that it's low risk.

But, by all means, post your foolish rants about the danger levels and let people make up their own minds ...

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 20:18:12 -0600, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message ...
[...]

What's next? Suing the weather woman for saying it is 50% chance of
showers and you got rained on?

But the most likely result of a suit against "the owners and managers
of these public and private lands for providing an unsafe venue" will
be the immediate closing of these lands to any ingress whatsoever.

A likely result will be closing the trails to mountain biking. Such trails have been hiked for generations without any question of safety ever arising.

I am just waiting for the lawsuits to commence. Someone needs
to be held responsible for this carnage.

The CARNAGE MUST STOP! Close those Trails.
Jeasus Dolan, you have reached a new height in stupidity!

Very funny ... coming from the stupidest Asshole ever to post to this group!

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.


I must say, you are proving without a doubt that the group is inundate
with fools, and you, it seems, are the leader of the pack.

Ever hear of an all terrain vehicle? the U.S. Army spent a ton of
money to develop one. You know, a wheeled vehicle that will go almost
anywhere.

So obviously your assertion that wheels are for roads is just another
example of how stupid you really are.

Old Dum Dum Dolan dooed it again.


Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great
--
Cheers,

John B.

Blackblade states that hikers and bikers are doing the same
thing on trails, i.e., recreating in the out of doors. Here is evidence that in
fact they are NOT doing the same thing at all.

Oxford English Dictionary
Recreation; activity done for enjoyment when one is not working

Quad erat demonstrandum; hiking and biking are both recreations.

lots of links to people riding trails and to Strava records ... snipped

Two things;

1. Note that in all the videos there are hardly any people ... for the vast majority of the time there is no interaction with other trail users. Therefore, there should be no issue in sharing these trails at all.

2. Perceptions of speed can be very misleading and you should also remember that mountain bikes are equipped with very powerful disk brakes; we can stop much more quickly than most hikers or road cyclists would imagine.

"John B." wrote in message ...
[...]

Ever hear of an all terrain vehicle? the U.S. Army spent a ton of
money to develop one. You know, a wheeled vehicle that will go almost
anywhere.

So obviously your assertion that wheels are for roads is just another
example of how stupid you really are.

So now you want all terrain vehicles on hiking trails? You are way beyond stupid; you are criminally stupid.

Now go **** yourself and quit bothering the honorable members of this noble newsgroup.

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

Blackblade states that hikers and bikers are doing the same
thing on trails, i.e., recreating in the out of doors. Here is evidence that in
fact they are NOT doing the same thing at all.

Oxford English Dictionary
Recreation; activity done for enjoyment when one is not working

Quad erat demonstrandum; hiking and biking are both recreations.

But not the same KIND of recreation. Both purpose and means are different.

lots of links to people riding trails and to Strava records ... snipped

Two things;

1. Note that in all the videos there are hardly any people ... for the vast majority of the time there is no interaction with other trail users. Therefore, there should be no issue in sharing these trails at all.

2. Perceptions of speed can be very misleading and you should also remember that mountain bikes are equipped with very powerful disk brakes; we can stop much more quickly than most hikers or road cyclists would imagine.

1. Obviously you do not care what anyone has to to say about a situation. They are all lying thru their teeth? Right?

2. Speed doesn't matter since bikes have brakes and can stop whenever and wherever? Good to know that bit of information, although what it has to do with bikes on trails is not readily apparent. You need to see a psychiatrist to find out what is making your brain tick!

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

I have already stated many times in another thread on this
newsgroup that hikers and bikers on trails are NOT doing the same thing at all.

And I have also stated that I don't care what you think, particularly since you are all over the place with your pronouncements. You're happy to permit running ... which is clearly not about "communing with nature" but have a huge issue with bikes.

Not caring what is said and refuting what is said are two different things. Too bad you can’t refute anything except crying like a baby when you can’t have your way.

"Communing with nature" is still recreation. You don't NEED to do it any more than you need to ride a mountainbike. They are both recreations.

The two recreations are entirely different, both with respect to purpose and means.
[...]

See above sentence. This thread is going to contain many
reports about cyclists who have seriously injured themselves doing what you are
doing - riding their bikes on trails. I wish them dead for doing what they are
doing, but you are far more cruel and callous because you encourage them. I want
them to stop; you want them to continue. Who is the real death merchant
here?

How the hell did we get to 'death merchant' and surely even you don't have the sheer effrontery to try and claim that you care about injuries to mountainbikers ? You've written enough times that you like to see them injured and killed in this thread. You don't want them to stop for their own good, you want them to stop so that you can enjoy your recreation in magnificent solitude.

I want them to stop – period. What does the reason matter? You want them to continue – period. What does the reason matter? They will continue to injure and kill themselves because of slobs like you, not because of slobs like me. You are indeed a merchant of death.

I don't want anything other than that I, and they, have the right to choose. I'm in favour of personal choice and personal responsibility. I have no issue with highlighting the real risks associated with activities so that people are participating with their eyes wide open. I support things like the Isle of Man TT despite the fact that there are several fatalities every year. I visit the Nurburgring regularly. As was posted on the epitaph to David Jefferies ... "Those who risk nothing do nothing, achieve nothing, become nothing". We are all going to die one day ... I strongly advise living first rather than worrying about it.

And I have already stated repeatedly that I regard you as a fool for risking life and limb doing stupid things. You are certainly welcome to kill yourself, but you advocate that others go and do what you do. That makes you a merchant of death. You are a form of poison to humanity – and you illustrate perfectly the mountain biker ethos. I don’t want you and your ilk anywhere near hiking trails.

And, were your proposal to be adopted, think of all the other,
more dangerous, sports ... what would happen there ? No more American
Football for a start.

The fact is that most cyclists simply have no idea of how
dangerous it is to bikes on trails. They buy a particular style of bike, see the
trails and assume they are safe to ride. But they are NOT! This is fertile
ground for lawsuits. ALL football players know full well the dangers of playing
that incredibly stupid game. All the protective gear they wear tells the
tale.

The reality is that it's NOT that dangerous; all Vandeman's trolling still shows up, worldwide, hardly any fatalities compared with participants. The British Medical Journal, hardly a byword for supporting risky endeavours, also concludes that it's low risk.

But, by all means, post your foolish rants about the danger levels and let people make up their own minds ...

I do indeed want others to make up their own minds. But let them make up their own minds riding trails designed for wheels and not trails designed for walking. I am not a merchant of death like you are.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

Trends come and go the same way fads do. What is going to kill
mountain biking are all the deaths and injuries. Mountain biking is not
considered an extreme sport, yet it racks up deaths and injuries just like most
extreme sports. The vast majority of people in this world do not want to risk
life and limb for a mere recreation. Only an extremely stupid minority of fools
want to do that.

Well, IF there were all these deaths and injuries then you might have a point. However, the statistics don't back you up ... Mountainbiking is relatively safe ... a rate of 1.54 per 1,000 exposures is less than soccer, rugby, american football, road cycling etc etc etc. (http://emj.bmj.com/content/early/201...9.086991.full).

So, once again, you're incorrect; mountainbiking produces injury and death statistics nowhere near 'extreme' sports.

You are not only wrong, but wrongheaded. I will continue to report stories from the field of what is actually happening on the trails and you can continue to puzzle over numbers (statistics) until kingdom come and we shall see who is the more persuasive.

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great