How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

On May 15, 4:44*pm, _
wrote:
wrote:
I went in the back room and discovered easy access
to 13 (!) wheels. *Out come the magnets. *One of the
wheels had galvanized spokes and of course the magnet
was strongly attracted to those. *A useful control.
Of the remaining 12 wheels with stainless spokes, the kitchen
magnet was very weakly attracted to 2, and not at all
to the remaining 10. *The 2 that were slightly magnetic
both had DT 2.0/1.8mm butted spokes. *However, I also
tried other wheels with DT butted and non-butted spokes
and found almost no attraction. *A few wheels with Asahi and
Wheelsmith stainless spokes had no attraction.

Wheelsmith butted spokes have an obvious transition
diameter where the swaging takes effect and I tested that
part to see if the cold working had rendered them
ferromagnetic at that particular spot. *Nope.

I then went back with a very strong magnet removed from
a hard drive, and confirmed that two wheels with DT spokes
were a little magnetic, the rest of the DT spokes were
slightly magnetic, and the Asahi/Wheelsmith spokes weren't
magnetic at all.

For comparison, I tested some other household goods.
Most stainless pans and my old film developing tanks are
non- or very weakly ferromagnetic. *The only stainless items
I found to be strongly ferromagnetic were some
kitchen utensils, silverware, and knives, plus a climbing
implement.

All of which confirms that cycle spokes are not, in the main, martensitic,
even when cold-worked - at best a few were found to be "a little" or
"slightly" magnetic, indicating little change from austenitic steel. *

Which of course means that "jim beams"s claim that if you put stainless
spokes in a kitchen oven they will come out austenitic is sort of correct -
because they were austenitic to begin with.

Hey ho.

And we should distinguish the effects of different levels of applied
heat. It is one thing to stick a spoke in boiling oil, or to make it
redhot and quench it in cold oil, and quite another to harden paint on
a spoke in an oven at a low temperature. This reflects one of the main
areas of low credibility when dealing with the anonymous "jim beam",
that, like too many inexperienced people who merely quote textbooks,
he has an on-off switch, that he insists every case is always either-
or, and that thus he altogether misses out on the subtleties of
materials and their applications.

Andre Jute
It is always in the subtleties of engineering that the beauty resides

On Fri, 15 May 2009 06:03:10 -0700, jim beam wrote:

wrote:
On May 14, 9:56�pm, jim beam wrote:
Chalo wrote:
jtaylor wrote:
jim beam wrote:
Chalo wrote:
Stainless spokes are always made of 300-series _austenitic_ stainless
alloy, doctor. They don't heat treat. You can have martensitic
spokes or whatever you like, but you'll have to make them yourself.
er, on deformation, they become martensitic, circus clown. that's why
they're magnetic. because you /do/ know austenitic steels are not
magnetic don't you? you /have/ put a magnet up against bike spokes and
pondered these things haven't you?
As always with the stuff "jim beam" posts, it is wise to check.
First off, a quick refresher on 300-series; these are Chromium-Nickle
Austentic steels - the book I grabbed uses the old SAE numbers, but the
last three digits are the same; 301 has the lowest Nickle, and 325 the
highest; the range is from about 6% to over 20% Nickle enhances the
stainless-ness, and most importantly in the instant discussion tends to
maintain the austentic structure, with the result that the steel remains
non-magnetic, even after cold-working.
I do not know what variety of stainless is found in the spokes I have used.
And, as we know, 'jim beam" places a value on experience that far exceeds
that of fact as reported by his elders and betters...
...so...
...I took a magnet - one of those good strong "super-magnets" that they put
in kids building toys, and went to where the spokes are.
First some spokes I pulled out of a push-bike wheel some time ago - butted,
stainless, marked with a "Z" (or perhaps an "N"; depends on how you look at
it). The magnet didn't attract any of them.
Next some spokes on the recumbent trike; straight, stainless, marked with
something that is either a shield of a thickish "U". The magnet didn't
attract any of 'em.
THEN, just for fun, some motor-bike spokes - a set that I built in the
70's, stainless butted spokes from Buchannan's. Not magnetic.
Another set from Buchannans, not built yet; also stainless and butted -
just got em a few weeks ago. Not magnetic.
This of course, is not exhaustive. And cold-working can & does affect the
magnetic qualities of some stainless steels; but so far, it appears that
for spokes is does so to a remarkable degree only in that small part of the
cycle world where the sky is a different colour and there are no
shift-keys.
I shouldn't even bother correcting "jim beam's" more noteworthy
technical errors within his purported field of expertise. �All it nets
us us more erroneous bull puckey and unwarranted abuse.
But thanks for confirming what I was saying anyway.
Chalo
wow!

q: so how many liars does it take to deceive a clown?
a: none - he can deceive himself.

http://i42.tinypic.com/25ez3uf.jpg

of course, all the ignorati will get their panties in a bunch and shout
"superglue" long before they bother to get a magnet and expose the
idiocy of the famous jtaylor who apparently doesn't know what a magnet
is, but hey, stupidity is not a barrier to entry on usenet.

I went in the back room and discovered easy access
to 13 (!) wheels. Out come the magnets. One of the
wheels had galvanized spokes and of course the magnet
was strongly attracted to those. A useful control.
Of the remaining 12 wheels with stainless spokes, the kitchen
magnet was very weakly attracted to 2, and not at all
to the remaining 10. The 2 that were slightly magnetic
both had DT 2.0/1.8mm butted spokes. However, I also
tried other wheels with DT butted and non-butted spokes
and found almost no attraction. A few wheels with Asahi and
Wheelsmith stainless spokes had no attraction.

Wheelsmith butted spokes have an obvious transition
diameter where the swaging takes effect and I tested that
part to see if the cold working had rendered them
ferromagnetic at that particular spot. Nope.

I then went back with a very strong magnet removed from
a hard drive, and confirmed that two wheels with DT spokes
were a little magnetic, the rest of the DT spokes were
slightly magnetic, and the Asahi/Wheelsmith spokes weren't
magnetic at all.

remember i've said that i believe wheelsmith to be ground and polished?
well, apart from physical features being consistent with this, low
magnetism is another one of the reasons.



For comparison, I tested some other household goods.
Most stainless pans and my old film developing tanks are
non- or very weakly ferromagnetic. The only stainless items
I found to be strongly ferromagnetic were some
kitchen utensils, silverware, and knives, plus a climbing
implement.

consistent with being cold worked.


Perhaps, but given the marking, much more likely that it is from not being
austenitic steel.


The ferromagnetic stainless utensils were labeled
"18/0" which of course means 18% chromium and 0% nickel.

no "of course" - it's /much/ more likely to actually be "1810", a common
kitchen grade. it's /highly/ unusual for a commercial stainless to have
a high chrome content with no nickel.


Is the the famously experienced voice of "jim beam" speaking? Cordon Blue
chef, diesel mechanic to the stars, master of shift-less prose and the
delicate and oh-so-subtle riposte "...you're a retard."

Here's a quote from a page that is (currently) the first hit on google for
"18/0 stainless":

=============
Are flatware specs all the same quality? No, they are not the same quality
and vary considerably in price and composition. At first glance on the
flatware packaging, it may look like 18/10, but a closer inspection may
reveal, that it is actually only 18/0 flatware. This type of flatware
information can be very deceiving, no wonder the price seems so good. It's
actual a marketing ploy, and if these flatware specs are missing
altogether, this product may not really be stainless steel at all. So let’s
take a look at these flatware differences and what they mean.
Answer: Stainless steel used in flatware is a composite of different steels
and varies in terms of grades for different uses. The main ingredient in
flatware is chromium and nickel has been added to provide a resistance to
corrosion.

Therefore flatware that is 18/10 means that 18% is chromium and 10% is
nickel. The higher the nickel content, the more protection the flatware has
from corrosion. Prices of stainless steel flatware vary considerably
depending on these specs, so don’t be fooled into thinking you are buying
the best quality, if the nickel content is 0%.

However, some flatware manufacturers will label cutlery with a slighter
higher than 8% nickel content, such as 8.3% as 18/10, since it doesn’t
quite fit in the 18/8 category, and this is allowable. A little deceiving,
none the less.

=============

Now, consider - would a maker deliberately label the good stuff (18/10) as
the cheap stuff (18/0)?

Much more likely that those bits of kitchen-ware were what they said they
were - zero percent nickel, and so ferritic.

Of course, "bjw" could have fooled himself by using glue to stick the
magnet to the cutlery - it's the method "jim beam" came up with...

....but his time might have been better spent doing his homework.

On Fri, 15 May 2009 12:48:07 -0400, Still Just Me wrote:

On Fri, 15 May 2009 06:03:10 -0700, jim beam wrote:

wrote:
snip
Of the remaining 12 wheels with stainless spokes, the kitchen
magnet was very weakly attracted to 2, and not at all
to the remaining 10. The 2 that were slightly magnetic
both had DT 2.0/1.8mm butted spokes. However, I also
tried other wheels with DT butted and non-butted spokes
and found almost no attraction. A few wheels with Asahi and
Wheelsmith stainless spokes had no attraction.


remember i've said that i believe wheelsmith to be ground and polished?
well, apart from physical features being consistent with this, low
magnetism is another one of the reasons.

Hey Jimbo, you oddly missed commenting on the part where he found 10
out of 12 spokes/wheel non-magnetic.

Your comments please, vis-a-vis your previous suggestions in this
thread.

And among those that were *not* non-magnetic, the most that was found was
described as "weakly" or "slightly" attracted.

(They would probably be much more strongly attached by "jim beam"'s glue
method.)

On Fri, 15 May 2009 01:11:08 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I went in the back room and discovered easy access
to 13 (!) wheels. Out come the magnets. One of the
wheels had galvanized spokes and of course the magnet
was strongly attracted to those. A useful control.
Of the remaining 12 wheels with stainless spokes, the kitchen
magnet was very weakly attracted to 2, and not at all
to the remaining 10. The 2 that were slightly magnetic
both had DT 2.0/1.8mm butted spokes. However, I also
tried other wheels with DT butted and non-butted spokes
and found almost no attraction. A few wheels with Asahi and
Wheelsmith stainless spokes had no attraction.

Wheelsmith butted spokes have an obvious transition
diameter where the swaging takes effect and I tested that
part to see if the cold working had rendered them
ferromagnetic at that particular spot. Nope.

I then went back with a very strong magnet removed from
a hard drive, and confirmed that two wheels with DT spokes
were a little magnetic, the rest of the DT spokes were
slightly magnetic, and the Asahi/Wheelsmith spokes weren't
magnetic at all.

For comparison, I tested some other household goods.
Most stainless pans and my old film developing tanks are
non- or very weakly ferromagnetic. The only stainless items
I found to be strongly ferromagnetic were some
kitchen utensils, silverware, and knives, plus a climbing
implement. The ferromagnetic stainless utensils were labeled
"18/0" which of course means 18% chromium and 0% nickel.
This is relevant given the assertion above that higher nickel
content preserves austenitic structure and hence
non-magnetism.

This test is repeatable by anyone, so it shouldn't be hard
for rbt readers to verify for themselves.

Of course, getting a magnet to stick to spokes doesn't
prove they will be heat-annealed at the smoking temperature
of motor oil, but I think paint is a more likely method
for blackening spokes anyway.

Ben

Dear Ben,

Will itty-bitty headphone magnets stick to your no-attraction spokes?

I vaguely remembered some faintly magnetic spokes, so I tested four of
my wheels.

It turned out that the last wheel fooled me and my hard drive magnet.

***

Wheel #1, galvanized spokes, hard drive magnet hangs handily from a
single spoke, satisfying clunk! as it grabs the spoke:

Wheels #2 & #3, aluminum spokes, hard drive magnet hangs, but only
barely and when pressed against two spokes near the crossing--the weak
attraction means that more metal surface is needed to support the hard
drive magnet.

Wheel #4, aluminum spokes, no attraction . . .

Oops!

Very careful testing of wheel #4 showed that the hard drive magnet
pulled sideways when dangled next to a spoke, but so weakly that there
was no hope of sticking to the spoke--it fell off if I let go.

But an itty-bitty ~6mm round headphone magnet is so small and light
that it sticks on all the spokes, as the photos below show.

Wheel #1 galvanized, hard drive magnet sticks strongly to one spoke:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2v8s2mg.jpg

Wheel #2 aluminum (same with wheel #3), hard drive magnet can barely
stick to the increased surface of two spokes at the crossing:
http://i43.tinypic.com/2sk6t.jpg

Wheel #4 aluminum, hard drive magnet won't stick by itself, even at a
spoke crossing, but it can just cling to a spoke if partly supported
by fishing line:
http://i43.tinypic.com/2mr76m8.jpg

You sampled far more wheels than I did, so I'm curious if my batch
just didn't include true no-attraction spokes.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

On May 15, 6:03*am, jim beam wrote:
wrote:

For comparison, I tested some other household goods.
Most stainless pans and my old film developing tanks are
non- or very weakly ferromagnetic. *The only stainless items
I found to be strongly ferromagnetic were some
kitchen utensils, silverware, and knives, plus a climbing
implement.

consistent with being cold worked.

The ferromagnetic stainless utensils were labeled
"18/0" which of course means 18% chromium and 0% nickel.

no "of course" - it's /much/ more likely to actually be "1810", a common
kitchen grade. *it's /highly/ unusual for a commercial stainless to have
a high chrome content with no nickel.

This is relevant given the assertion above that higher nickel
content preserves austenitic structure and hence
non-magnetism.

Genius, I can read. They're inexpensive stainless
long spoons/ladle/turner you could buy for $3 at IKEA,
and I have four that say very clearly on the back
"18/0 stainless steel." If you contradict me again
I can post a picture. They look like these:
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30083334
I recommend them, by the way. Great value.
Don't use on non-stick cookware, of course.

Kitchen utensils commonly come in 18/10, 18/8, and 18/0.
These are partly marketing as they aren't guaranteed to
be exact. The 18/0 stuff is cheaper though it seems
to work fine. I have a couple of "18/10" pans that are
only magnetic in the distinct bottom layer that covers an
aluminum core - possibly the sides and base are made
of two different alloys.

Anyway, spokes are weakly magnetic at best.
You may question the qualifications and judgment
of various people you argue with on Usenet, but it
helps to represent the facts correctly.

Ben

On Fri, 15 May 2009 11:12:25 -0600, wrote:

On Fri, 15 May 2009 01:11:08 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I went in the back room and discovered easy access
to 13 (!) wheels. Out come the magnets. One of the
wheels had galvanized spokes and of course the magnet
was strongly attracted to those. A useful control.
Of the remaining 12 wheels with stainless spokes, the kitchen
magnet was very weakly attracted to 2, and not at all
to the remaining 10. The 2 that were slightly magnetic
both had DT 2.0/1.8mm butted spokes. However, I also
tried other wheels with DT butted and non-butted spokes
and found almost no attraction. A few wheels with Asahi and
Wheelsmith stainless spokes had no attraction.

Wheelsmith butted spokes have an obvious transition
diameter where the swaging takes effect and I tested that
part to see if the cold working had rendered them
ferromagnetic at that particular spot. Nope.

I then went back with a very strong magnet removed from
a hard drive, and confirmed that two wheels with DT spokes
were a little magnetic, the rest of the DT spokes were
slightly magnetic, and the Asahi/Wheelsmith spokes weren't
magnetic at all.

For comparison, I tested some other household goods.
Most stainless pans and my old film developing tanks are
non- or very weakly ferromagnetic. The only stainless items
I found to be strongly ferromagnetic were some
kitchen utensils, silverware, and knives, plus a climbing
implement. The ferromagnetic stainless utensils were labeled
"18/0" which of course means 18% chromium and 0% nickel.
This is relevant given the assertion above that higher nickel
content preserves austenitic structure and hence
non-magnetism.

This test is repeatable by anyone, so it shouldn't be hard
for rbt readers to verify for themselves.

Of course, getting a magnet to stick to spokes doesn't
prove they will be heat-annealed at the smoking temperature
of motor oil, but I think paint is a more likely method
for blackening spokes anyway.

Ben

Dear Ben,

Will itty-bitty headphone magnets stick to your no-attraction spokes?

I vaguely remembered some faintly magnetic spokes, so I tested four of
my wheels.

It turned out that the last wheel fooled me and my hard drive magnet.

***

Wheel #1, galvanized spokes, hard drive magnet hangs handily from a
single spoke, satisfying clunk! as it grabs the spoke:

Wheels #2 & #3, aluminum spokes, hard drive magnet hangs, but only
barely and when pressed against two spokes near the crossing--the weak
attraction means that more metal surface is needed to support the hard
drive magnet.

Wheel #4, aluminum spokes, no attraction . . .

Oops!

Very careful testing of wheel #4 showed that the hard drive magnet
pulled sideways when dangled next to a spoke, but so weakly that there
was no hope of sticking to the spoke--it fell off if I let go.


Should have used "jim beam" brand glue.

But an itty-bitty ~6mm round headphone magnet is so small and light
that it sticks on all the spokes, as the photos below show.

Wheel #1 galvanized, hard drive magnet sticks strongly to one spoke:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2v8s2mg.jpg

Wheel #2 aluminum (same with wheel #3), hard drive magnet can barely
stick to the increased surface of two spokes at the crossing:
http://i43.tinypic.com/2sk6t.jpg

Wheel #4 aluminum, hard drive magnet won't stick by itself, even at a
spoke crossing, but it can just cling to a spoke if partly supported
by fishing line:
http://i43.tinypic.com/2mr76m8.jpg

You sampled far more wheels than I did, so I'm curious if my batch
just didn't include true no-attraction spokes.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Carl -

- did you happens to miss-pell "stainless" as "aluminum"?

_ wrote:
On Fri, 15 May 2009 11:12:25 -0600, wrote:

On Fri, 15 May 2009 01:11:08 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I went in the back room and discovered easy access
to 13 (!) wheels. Out come the magnets. One of the
wheels had galvanized spokes and of course the magnet
was strongly attracted to those. A useful control.
Of the remaining 12 wheels with stainless spokes, the kitchen
magnet was very weakly attracted to 2, and not at all
to the remaining 10. The 2 that were slightly magnetic
both had DT 2.0/1.8mm butted spokes. However, I also
tried other wheels with DT butted and non-butted spokes
and found almost no attraction. A few wheels with Asahi and
Wheelsmith stainless spokes had no attraction.

Wheelsmith butted spokes have an obvious transition
diameter where the swaging takes effect and I tested that
part to see if the cold working had rendered them
ferromagnetic at that particular spot. Nope.

I then went back with a very strong magnet removed from
a hard drive, and confirmed that two wheels with DT spokes
were a little magnetic, the rest of the DT spokes were
slightly magnetic, and the Asahi/Wheelsmith spokes weren't
magnetic at all.

For comparison, I tested some other household goods.
Most stainless pans and my old film developing tanks are
non- or very weakly ferromagnetic. The only stainless items
I found to be strongly ferromagnetic were some
kitchen utensils, silverware, and knives, plus a climbing
implement. The ferromagnetic stainless utensils were labeled
"18/0" which of course means 18% chromium and 0% nickel.
This is relevant given the assertion above that higher nickel
content preserves austenitic structure and hence
non-magnetism.

This test is repeatable by anyone, so it shouldn't be hard
for rbt readers to verify for themselves.

Of course, getting a magnet to stick to spokes doesn't
prove they will be heat-annealed at the smoking temperature
of motor oil, but I think paint is a more likely method
for blackening spokes anyway.

Ben
Dear Ben,

Will itty-bitty headphone magnets stick to your no-attraction spokes?

I vaguely remembered some faintly magnetic spokes, so I tested four of
my wheels.

It turned out that the last wheel fooled me and my hard drive magnet.

***

Wheel #1, galvanized spokes, hard drive magnet hangs handily from a
single spoke, satisfying clunk! as it grabs the spoke:

Wheels #2 & #3, aluminum spokes, hard drive magnet hangs, but only
barely and when pressed against two spokes near the crossing--the weak
attraction means that more metal surface is needed to support the hard
drive magnet.

Wheel #4, aluminum spokes, no attraction . . .

Oops!

Very careful testing of wheel #4 showed that the hard drive magnet
pulled sideways when dangled next to a spoke, but so weakly that there
was no hope of sticking to the spoke--it fell off if I let go.


Should have used "jim beam" brand glue.

But an itty-bitty ~6mm round headphone magnet is so small and light
that it sticks on all the spokes, as the photos below show.

Wheel #1 galvanized, hard drive magnet sticks strongly to one spoke:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2v8s2mg.jpg

Wheel #2 aluminum (same with wheel #3), hard drive magnet can barely
stick to the increased surface of two spokes at the crossing:
http://i43.tinypic.com/2sk6t.jpg

Wheel #4 aluminum, hard drive magnet won't stick by itself, even at a
spoke crossing, but it can just cling to a spoke if partly supported
by fishing line:
http://i43.tinypic.com/2mr76m8.jpg

You sampled far more wheels than I did, so I'm curious if my batch
just didn't include true no-attraction spokes.


Carl -
- did you happens to miss-pell "stainless" as "aluminum"?

I wondered about that, too. If they have magnetic aluminum
now in Colorado then "transparent aluminum" can't be far
away! Beam me up!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"jim beam" wrote:
[...]
remember i've said that i believe wheelsmith to be ground and polished?
well, apart from physical features being consistent with this, low
magnetism is another one of the reasons.[...]

I think "jim's" belief is out of date. Wheelsmith butted spokes were
ground when made in Montana, but after purchase of Wheelsmith by Hayes
Bicycle Group and the production moved to the corner of Florist and 64th
in Havenwoods, they started using the former Asahi equipment for spoke
production, which I believe forms the butting by swaging. Maybe Andrew
Muzi can wrangle a visit to confirm the current production method.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

J. Taylor wrote:
On Fri, 15 May 2009 12:48:07 -0400, Still Just Me wrote:

On Fri, 15 May 2009 06:03:10 -0700, jim beam wrote:

wrote:
snip
Of the remaining 12 wheels with stainless spokes, the kitchen
magnet was very weakly attracted to 2, and not at all
to the remaining 10. The 2 that were slightly magnetic
both had DT 2.0/1.8mm butted spokes. However, I also
tried other wheels with DT butted and non-butted spokes
and found almost no attraction. A few wheels with Asahi and
Wheelsmith stainless spokes had no attraction.

remember i've said that i believe wheelsmith to be ground and polished?
well, apart from physical features being consistent with this, low
magnetism is another one of the reasons.
Hey Jimbo, you oddly missed commenting on the part where he found 10
out of 12 spokes/wheel non-magnetic.

Your comments please, vis-a-vis your previous suggestions in this
thread.

And among those that were *not* non-magnetic, the most that was found was
described as "weakly" or "slightly" attracted.

(They would probably be much more strongly attached by "jim beam"'s glue
method.)

Did you check the spokes at the elbows and threads, where the greatest
degree of cold working has taken place?

I have broken AISI 304 (aka 18/8) tensile specimens, and they are indeed
non-magnetic prior to testing, but slightly magnetic after testing ONLY
at the area where necking and fracture occurred.

I did a search of manufacturers websites a couple of years ago, and as
best as I could determine, DT, Wheelsmith and Sapim all used AISI 304
steel for their spokes.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

aka Ben Weiner wrote:
On May 15, 6:03 am, jim beam wrote:
wrote:

For comparison, I tested some other household goods.
Most stainless pans and my old film developing tanks are
non- or very weakly ferromagnetic. The only stainless items
I found to be strongly ferromagnetic were some
kitchen utensils, silverware, and knives, plus a climbing
implement.
consistent with being cold worked.

The ferromagnetic stainless utensils were labeled
"18/0" which of course means 18% chromium and 0% nickel.
no "of course" - it's /much/ more likely to actually be "1810", a common
kitchen grade. it's /highly/ unusual for a commercial stainless to have
a high chrome content with no nickel.

This is relevant given the assertion above that higher nickel
content preserves austenitic structure and hence
non-magnetism.

Genius, I can read. They're inexpensive stainless
long spoons/ladle/turner you could buy for $3 at IKEA,
and I have four that say very clearly on the back
"18/0 stainless steel." If you contradict me again
I can post a picture. They look like these:
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30083334
I recommend them, by the way. Great value.
Don't use on non-stick cookware, of course.

Kitchen utensils commonly come in 18/10, 18/8, and 18/0.
These are partly marketing as they aren't guaranteed to
be exact. The 18/0 stuff is cheaper though it seems
to work fine. I have a couple of "18/10" pans that are
only magnetic in the distinct bottom layer that covers an
aluminum core - possibly the sides and base are made
of two different alloys.[...]

Some people are allergic to nickel, and should stick to utensils without
nickel content.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll