Helmet Poll: First Hand Experience

1) Fell backwards goofing around on my touring bike on a steep
driveway. Head hit a brick wall behind me, hard. I went from a
standing position through an arc with my head at the end of the arc.
Yes, I am sure it helped. No injury, just cracked helmet foam, mild
chagrin, and dizziness.

1) 5 year old daughter was learning to ride on a local running track.
She got bumped at low speed and tipped over while still holding the
bars and the side of her helmet met the pavement. Helmet foam cracked
all the way through. She had a concussion from which she recovered
fine, though it was wierd when she started throwing up 1/2 hour after
the accident.

2) I was going 20mph when a 13 year old cyclist stuck her bike out from
inbetween two hedges into my path. I struck the front of her bike,
bending my steel Tange fork back 2". I went flying but avoided more
than grazing my head. Helmet made no difference, I believe.

Barnard Frederick wrote:
Sorni says...

(I already told about the time I endo'd in a rock gargen and totally
rang my lidded bell. Got up and finished the ride. Also hit a
low-hanging tree-branch so hard one time I saw stars; just kept
pedaling. Pretty damn sure I'd've gotten concussions at the very
least both times, if not cracking open my skull -- especially the
one on the rocks.)

Bill "and he pulls me back in" S.

PS: Who knows? If I'd read certain STUDIES before these events,
maybe I'd've gotten pretty jacked up!

While I do intensely dislike the helmet hysteria, even I wouldn't
argue with wearing one while riding through rock gardens or if low
hanging branches are part of the route. I assume you were mountain
biking both times? I would never advise against helmet use while
mountain biking since crashing is obviously part of the sport.
However, there is a huge population of riders who don't mountain bike
or otherwise push the envelope, and these are the people for whom
biking without a helmet has 20:1 health advantages.

20 to 1, Gracie???

Budstaff wrote:

Is this just a cultural difference, or do Americans find your
response to this reasonable point as rude as I do?

Yes, Ozark was rude to the delicate flower jtaylor. What you apparently
don't know is the recent history of jtaylor and many others attacking him --
more often than not in very personal, insulting terms -- for his daring to
express an OPINION that's counter to theirs.

BTW, there's a lot of that going on...

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

I was hit from behind by a pickup truck, the lady fell asleep, at 1030
on a Saturday morning. I think I went airborne, and hit her windshield
with my face, remember nothing, she was asleep. I woke her up when I
hit her windshield. (12 stitches around my eye orbit), I got a
concussion, out for 30 minutes, amnesia for about 40 hours...did not
have on a helmet, NO bumps or bruises to my head, only my face and
nose. A helmet would have made no difference BUT I wear one now as a
second concussion(needed 6 months of cognitive retraining for the
first concussion), is additive and would be much worse. Helmet hurts
nothing, 'may' help.

What's interesting is that Peter most likely will not be attcked --
epsecially personally -- for that last comment. (Nor should he be, but then
again no one should.)

Wonder why.

"Ozark Bicycle" wrote in message
ps.com...

Note that the first-hand experiences, to date, have been very
"pro"
helmet.

Would this have anything to do with the fact that you deliberately
excluded
instances where the result would have been negative?


Do you mean the "I wasn't wearing a helmet and I didn't hit my head,
but if I had been wearing a helmet, I would have hit my head"
claptrap?




Why do you call instances like those "claptrap"?


Take a guess.....


Bias.


Are you denying that they occur?


Okay, your turn: tell everyone how you would determine that while you
didn't hit your head while not wearing a helmet, you know you would
have hit your head, in the same incident, if you were wearing a helmet.
And, please, be precise.


Again: are you denying that they occur?

I was hit from behind by a pickup truck, the lady fell asleep, at 1030
on a Saturday morning. I think I went airborne, and hit her windshield
with my face, remember nothing, she was asleep. I woke her up when I
hit her windshield. (12 stitches around my eye orbit), I got a
concussion, out for 30 minutes, amnesia for about 40 hours...did not
have on a helmet, NO bumps or bruises to my head, only my face and
nose. A helmet would have made no difference BUT I wear one now as a
second concussion(needed 6 months of cognitive retraining for the first
concussion), is additive and would be much worse. Helmet hurts nothing,
'may' help.

Peter: Clearly, the aerodynamics of the helmet would have altered your
trajectory and forced the helmet itself to impact on the windshield. Surely
you're aware of that feature in modern helmets???

Glad you're still with us. Had a customer the other day coming down one of
the local hills (Kings Mtn), too fast in one of the reverse-banked corners,
drifted into the oncoming lane and hit a car head-on. Broke his wheel
(literally snapped the rim in two places), broke the fork, frame appears
undamaged but I wouldn't trust it... and miraculously, escaped himself
pretty much without a scratch. Don't know if he was wearing a helmet or not.
Just glad both of you made it through.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message
oups.com...

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
I'm looking for three data points he

1) My head struck on object (pavement, vehicle, another cyclist, etc.)
whilst cycling; I was wearing a helmet and I feel the helmet lessened
the extent of my injuries.

or

2) My head struck on object whilst cycling; I was wearing a helmet and
I doubt it either lessened or worsened the extent of my injuries (i.e.,
the helmet made no difference).

or

3) My head struck an object whilst cycling; I was wearing a helmet and
I feel the helmet worsened the extent of my injuries.

Please limit responses to the three scenarios as outlined above. As
simple or as detailed as you like. And, *first hand* accounts only
(i.e., it happened to you). And no responses of "studies show",
"statistics prove", etc.
(And I'm counting on everyone's honesty.)

I was hit from behind by a pickup truck, the lady fell asleep, at 1030
on a Saturday morning. I think I went airborne, and hit her windshield
with my face, remember nothing, she was asleep. I woke her up when I
hit her windshield. (12 stitches around my eye orbit), I got a
concussion, out for 30 minutes, amnesia for about 40 hours...did not
have on a helmet, NO bumps or bruises to my head, only my face and
nose. A helmet would have made no difference BUT I wear one now as a
second concussion(needed 6 months of cognitive retraining for the first
concussion), is additive and would be much worse. Helmet hurts nothing,
'may' help.

HazeRider wrote:
1) My head struck on object whilst cycling; I was wearing a helmet and
I feel the helmet lessened the extent of my injuries.

I was riding on the Capital Crescent Trail (Maryland/DC) behind a
slower group of riders waiting for a curve to end so I could see to
pass. Suddenly a hammerhead flies up from behind, decides to go for it
and as soon as he jaunts left here comes riders around the curve and
he slams in to me from the left rear qtr to avoid them. At this point
slow motion adrenalin kicks in; I remember all the f-words on the way
down. My Bell helmet slammed into the asphalt harder than any part of
my body. I remember the compression of the Styrofoam when it hit.
There were four complete cracks through the left side of the helmet.
The front fork of the bike completely twisted around and under the top
tube. Bike had to be disassembled and put back together so a fireman
could ride it out of there for me. I was hauled out on a souped up
golf cart emergency vehicle designed for getting back on the trails.
So, beaucoup road rash, still scars after 2 years. Watch destroyed as
it was scrapped away beyond recognition. (Likely saved much more road
rash or worse), cell phone destroyed, left shoulder and knee seemed
to each lose a few pounds of skin and meat, but the helmet did its
job. It saved my life I have no doubt. I only spent a few hours in the
emergency room and got a ride to the fire station where they were
keeping my bike. It took a few weeks before bike and rider were both
ready to get back out there. Hard to believe, the hammerhead just
looked at me lying on the pavement, jumped back on his bike and left
me there.

Damn. While awful, that's exactly the type of crash for which a helmet is
designed. Scratches and bruises are minor -- not big deals but of course
still not welcomed -- but a sudden HARD impact on a HARD surface, resulting
in the helmet cracking apart in pieces -- absorbing what would have been
impacting the skull -- is what it's all about.

IMO.

Bill "bet you're glad you spent the $50 or whatever for that+ lid" S.

PS: You would definitely get flamed for that "saved my life" part, but my
post should give you some cover

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
jtaylor wrote:

Would this have anything to do with the fact that you deliberately
excluded
instances where the result would have been negative?

Do you mean the "I wasn't wearing a helmet and I didn't hit my head,
but if I had been wearing a helmet, I would ha ve hit my head" claptrap?


Why do you call instances like those "claptrap"?

Are you denying that they occur?

Okay, your turn: tell everyone how you would determine that while you
didn't hit your head while not wearing a helmet, you know you would
have hit your head, in the same incident, if you were wearing a helmet.
And, please, be precise.

I already did just that in earlier threads. I described a high speed,
hard fall where I did not hit my head at all, but where the mark on the
top of my shoulder (which I still have, almost two years later) proves
that I hit the pavement almost exactly adjacent to my skull. Had I been
wearing a helmet, which projects out what- you tell me how much,
anything would have been enough- from the surface of my skull, I would
have suffered an impact, and at a bad angle which would have swung my
head around like a tether ball. No thanks.

g

Peter Clinch wrote:

Though understandable, if this had any useful effect then you'd think
the Dutch would be /very/ keen on helmets since so many people cycle in
NL and of course the kids learning are just as susceptible to falls as
those in any other country. But in actuality you see very few Dutch
kids in helmets and similarly unconcerned parents, and the lowest rates
of head injuries you'll find anywahere. So why is it an issue
elsewhere? Paranoia, or are the laws of physics really different
outside NL to in it?


In the time before I educated myself about helmets, our two children did
a school exchange with two Dutch families. We insisted they wore
helmets for the many cycle trips they did with their Dutch hosts. The
hosts were very accommodating but the parents found it very difficult to
comprehend why we felt it was necessary. None of them or their children
wore helmets when cycling or saw even the slightest need to. I've since
learnt that we were the ones with the odd ideas, not them.


--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Jeff wrote:
Type 1:

hit an immovable object--tore my thumb ligament and fell backwards
onto
pavement -- head hit first
helmet shattered, slight concussion but no fracture of skull
Reasonable sure I would have suffered brain damage if I hadn't
been wearing
a helmet

Jeffrey R Fischman, MD

Could you describe the damage to your helmet more specifically. You
say
it shattered: did the styrofoam compress at all?

Thanks. t