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Thunked my helmet a fourth time



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 10th 15, 04:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,428
Default Thunked my helmet a fourth time

On Wed, 9 Sep 2015 10:37:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Joy, that helmet was almost worthless after the first time it hit the ground.


The Bell Biker I was wearing for the first crash was worthless
*before* it hit the ground. Did you know that there were molded-in
rocks at every ventilation hole of the first helmet to hit the market?

Of course, they would have mattered only if you somehow got hit on
*top* of your head.

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
Ads
  #12  
Old September 12th 15, 01:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,919
Default Thunked my helmet a fourth time

On 9/9/2015 1:39 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 9:53:16 AM UTC-7, Stephen Harding wrote:
On 9/2/2015 9:42 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/2/2015 7:04 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 02 Sep 2015 00:35:10 -0300, Joy Beeson
wrote:


I've had three helmet-thunking falls in the last fifty years.

I think it was in the eighties that I touched wheels while on a
multi-day tour. Got up and finished the ride.

A couple of years ago I slipped on some rotten leaves concealed under
what appeared to be a drift of dry leaves, and had the same exact
fall. The muscles attached to my ribs were still feeling it two
months later; I don't bounce like I uster. (I did ride home, but
after stiffening up, I could just barely walk.)

A couple of months ago I dropped a piece of paper while stopped to
read a map, and thought I could pick it up without dismounting. Sense
of balance ain't what it used to be; being tangled in the bike, I hit
like a bag of wet cement and banged up the same ribs. But it was only
one day before I could cough; the wet leaves took a week.

Today -- clock just struck, make that yesterday -- I made a pit stop
at a playground. It was the middle of a school day, so the place was
deserted. I looked all around: yes, there are no witnesses. I
climbed the spiral slide -- and failed to duck under a bar at the top
that was meant for much shorter people.

Worse, between my sweat-soaked clothes and my body occupying more
degrees of the curve than the designer planned, I went down so slowly
that I almost had to push. No fun at all.

And the moral is? Wear a helmet on the slide ? :-)

If people would take the "Always wear your helmet!!!" advice more
literally, we'd enjoy LOTS more "My helmet saved my life!!!!" stories.
Wearing it on a playground slide is a step in that direction, all right!

Oh wait... the CPSC is disagreeing:
http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Newsroom/News...n-Playgrounds/


Shame on you, Joy! ;-)


While I don't doubt that a helmet, at times, can indeed keep your
noggin' intact, I think mostly it doesn't. Would one really have had a
head bashing event without one? If so, what else would have been
bashed? Ribs, heart, spleen, et al.? Depends what you've run into I guess.

By all means wear a helmet if you feel you are otherwise defying death
while riding a bicycle. And if it gets someone riding a bicycle, then
it has been at its most effective to my mind.

I used to ride a motorcycle and would feel naked without a helmet. Even
though neighboring states of NH and RI didn't require them, I would
never ride without one when in those states.

But I don't feel that way about riding a bike. My knees, shins, hips,
elbows, wrists and shoulders would be more likely to take knocks than my
head.

Of course wearing one can't really hurt. But will one apply such same
reasoning to driving a car or walking?

It's all a matter of danger perception and how effective you believe a
helmet is. Not wearing one isn't a case of stupidity or death wish as
some helmet zealots often seem to say or imply (not that you are saying
such things).


SMH


Stephen - while you are correct that there isn't a shred of evidence that helmets do much of anything there is also no evidence that they do not do SOMETHING. Hence I wear a helmet despite knowing the technical difficulties of designing such a device.


One aspect of the helmet nonsense that amazes me is that such statements
always apply only to bicycling. They're never applied to the other
activities that generate far more TBI fatalities or serious injuries.

You know, things like walking near traffic. Riding in motor vehicles.
Using ladders, descending stairs...


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #13  
Old September 12th 15, 02:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
John B.[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,202
Default Thunked my helmet a fourth time

On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 20:05:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2015 1:39 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 9:53:16 AM UTC-7, Stephen Harding wrote:
On 9/2/2015 9:42 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/2/2015 7:04 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 02 Sep 2015 00:35:10 -0300, Joy Beeson
wrote:


I've had three helmet-thunking falls in the last fifty years.

I think it was in the eighties that I touched wheels while on a
multi-day tour. Got up and finished the ride.

A couple of years ago I slipped on some rotten leaves concealed under
what appeared to be a drift of dry leaves, and had the same exact
fall. The muscles attached to my ribs were still feeling it two
months later; I don't bounce like I uster. (I did ride home, but
after stiffening up, I could just barely walk.)

A couple of months ago I dropped a piece of paper while stopped to
read a map, and thought I could pick it up without dismounting. Sense
of balance ain't what it used to be; being tangled in the bike, I hit
like a bag of wet cement and banged up the same ribs. But it was only
one day before I could cough; the wet leaves took a week.

Today -- clock just struck, make that yesterday -- I made a pit stop
at a playground. It was the middle of a school day, so the place was
deserted. I looked all around: yes, there are no witnesses. I
climbed the spiral slide -- and failed to duck under a bar at the top
that was meant for much shorter people.

Worse, between my sweat-soaked clothes and my body occupying more
degrees of the curve than the designer planned, I went down so slowly
that I almost had to push. No fun at all.

And the moral is? Wear a helmet on the slide ? :-)

If people would take the "Always wear your helmet!!!" advice more
literally, we'd enjoy LOTS more "My helmet saved my life!!!!" stories.
Wearing it on a playground slide is a step in that direction, all right!

Oh wait... the CPSC is disagreeing:
http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Newsroom/News...n-Playgrounds/


Shame on you, Joy! ;-)

While I don't doubt that a helmet, at times, can indeed keep your
noggin' intact, I think mostly it doesn't. Would one really have had a
head bashing event without one? If so, what else would have been
bashed? Ribs, heart, spleen, et al.? Depends what you've run into I guess.

By all means wear a helmet if you feel you are otherwise defying death
while riding a bicycle. And if it gets someone riding a bicycle, then
it has been at its most effective to my mind.

I used to ride a motorcycle and would feel naked without a helmet. Even
though neighboring states of NH and RI didn't require them, I would
never ride without one when in those states.

But I don't feel that way about riding a bike. My knees, shins, hips,
elbows, wrists and shoulders would be more likely to take knocks than my
head.

Of course wearing one can't really hurt. But will one apply such same
reasoning to driving a car or walking?

It's all a matter of danger perception and how effective you believe a
helmet is. Not wearing one isn't a case of stupidity or death wish as
some helmet zealots often seem to say or imply (not that you are saying
such things).


SMH


Stephen - while you are correct that there isn't a shred of evidence that helmets do much of anything there is also no evidence that they do not do SOMETHING. Hence I wear a helmet despite knowing the technical difficulties of designing such a device.


One aspect of the helmet nonsense that amazes me is that such statements
always apply only to bicycling. They're never applied to the other
activities that generate far more TBI fatalities or serious injuries.

You know, things like walking near traffic. Riding in motor vehicles.
Using ladders, descending stairs...


The Center for Brain Injuries Services
http://www.headinjuryctr-stl.org/statistics.html
has it that, in the U.S., between 75 and 100,000 individuals die of
Traumatic Brain Injury annually.

Over 50% of those who sustain a Brain Injury have been intoxicated at
the time or injury.

51% of these injuries, or from 38 to 50 thousand are the result of
Motor Vehicle Accidents

About 75% of all bicyclists who die each year die of head injuries.

So... looking at Danger, Danger, wearing a helmet while motoring might
save as many, oh say 50,000 annually, and wearing a helmet while
bicycling might save as many as ~700 X .75 or ~525.

The lesson is, of course, that while it certainly should be mandatory
for cyclists to wear a helmet it is totally unnecessary for the
motorist.

Logic, of course, is very pervasive :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #14  
Old September 12th 15, 02:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,919
Default Thunked my helmet a fourth time

On 9/11/2015 9:54 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 20:05:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2015 1:39 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 9:53:16 AM UTC-7, Stephen Harding wrote:
On 9/2/2015 9:42 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/2/2015 7:04 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 02 Sep 2015 00:35:10 -0300, Joy Beeson
wrote:


I've had three helmet-thunking falls in the last fifty years.

I think it was in the eighties that I touched wheels while on a
multi-day tour. Got up and finished the ride.

A couple of years ago I slipped on some rotten leaves concealed under
what appeared to be a drift of dry leaves, and had the same exact
fall. The muscles attached to my ribs were still feeling it two
months later; I don't bounce like I uster. (I did ride home, but
after stiffening up, I could just barely walk.)

A couple of months ago I dropped a piece of paper while stopped to
read a map, and thought I could pick it up without dismounting. Sense
of balance ain't what it used to be; being tangled in the bike, I hit
like a bag of wet cement and banged up the same ribs. But it was only
one day before I could cough; the wet leaves took a week.

Today -- clock just struck, make that yesterday -- I made a pit stop
at a playground. It was the middle of a school day, so the place was
deserted. I looked all around: yes, there are no witnesses. I
climbed the spiral slide -- and failed to duck under a bar at the top
that was meant for much shorter people.

Worse, between my sweat-soaked clothes and my body occupying more
degrees of the curve than the designer planned, I went down so slowly
that I almost had to push. No fun at all.

And the moral is? Wear a helmet on the slide ? :-)

If people would take the "Always wear your helmet!!!" advice more
literally, we'd enjoy LOTS more "My helmet saved my life!!!!" stories.
Wearing it on a playground slide is a step in that direction, all right!

Oh wait... the CPSC is disagreeing:
http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Newsroom/News...n-Playgrounds/


Shame on you, Joy! ;-)

While I don't doubt that a helmet, at times, can indeed keep your
noggin' intact, I think mostly it doesn't. Would one really have had a
head bashing event without one? If so, what else would have been
bashed? Ribs, heart, spleen, et al.? Depends what you've run into I guess.

By all means wear a helmet if you feel you are otherwise defying death
while riding a bicycle. And if it gets someone riding a bicycle, then
it has been at its most effective to my mind.

I used to ride a motorcycle and would feel naked without a helmet. Even
though neighboring states of NH and RI didn't require them, I would
never ride without one when in those states.

But I don't feel that way about riding a bike. My knees, shins, hips,
elbows, wrists and shoulders would be more likely to take knocks than my
head.

Of course wearing one can't really hurt. But will one apply such same
reasoning to driving a car or walking?

It's all a matter of danger perception and how effective you believe a
helmet is. Not wearing one isn't a case of stupidity or death wish as
some helmet zealots often seem to say or imply (not that you are saying
such things).


SMH

Stephen - while you are correct that there isn't a shred of evidence that helmets do much of anything there is also no evidence that they do not do SOMETHING. Hence I wear a helmet despite knowing the technical difficulties of designing such a device.


One aspect of the helmet nonsense that amazes me is that such statements
always apply only to bicycling. They're never applied to the other
activities that generate far more TBI fatalities or serious injuries.

You know, things like walking near traffic. Riding in motor vehicles.
Using ladders, descending stairs...


The Center for Brain Injuries Services
http://www.headinjuryctr-stl.org/statistics.html
has it that, in the U.S., between 75 and 100,000 individuals die of
Traumatic Brain Injury annually.

....

About 75% of all bicyclists who die each year die of head injuries.


I believe that last figure is wrong.

First, from 1997 to 2007, the U.S. averaged only 730 bike fatalities per
year. That's a small number when compared to other TBI deaths, or other
deaths in general.

The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, in Victor G. Coronado et.
al., "Surveillance for Traumatic Brain Injury Related Deaths, United
States, 1997‑2007" Surveillance Summaries May 6, 2011 / 60(SS05); 1‑32
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwr...cid=ss6005a1_w
shows, in table 10, that for 1997-2007 there were an average of just 325
bicyclist traumatic brain injury (TBI) fatalities per year. The total
annual TBI fatalities from all causes averaged 53014.

Also note from the above data that only 44.5% of cyclist fatalities
(325/730) were due to head injuries .

And BTW, roughly 45% of fatally injured pedestrians also died of TBI,
according to that paper's data.

Americans have been convinced that bicycling is a huge risk of fatal
TBI, and is unique in this risk. It's an advertising scam, weirdly
adopted by the medical profession, which seems hell-bent on ignoring its
own data.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #15  
Old September 13th 15, 01:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
John B.[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,202
Default Thunked my helmet a fourth time

On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 22:00:14 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

John B. considered Sat, 12 Sep 2015 08:54:40
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 20:05:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2015 1:39 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 9:53:16 AM UTC-7, Stephen Harding wrote:
On 9/2/2015 9:42 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/2/2015 7:04 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 02 Sep 2015 00:35:10 -0300, Joy Beeson
wrote:


I've had three helmet-thunking falls in the last fifty years.

I think it was in the eighties that I touched wheels while on a
multi-day tour. Got up and finished the ride.

A couple of years ago I slipped on some rotten leaves concealed under
what appeared to be a drift of dry leaves, and had the same exact
fall. The muscles attached to my ribs were still feeling it two
months later; I don't bounce like I uster. (I did ride home, but
after stiffening up, I could just barely walk.)

A couple of months ago I dropped a piece of paper while stopped to
read a map, and thought I could pick it up without dismounting. Sense
of balance ain't what it used to be; being tangled in the bike, I hit
like a bag of wet cement and banged up the same ribs. But it was only
one day before I could cough; the wet leaves took a week.

Today -- clock just struck, make that yesterday -- I made a pit stop
at a playground. It was the middle of a school day, so the place was
deserted. I looked all around: yes, there are no witnesses. I
climbed the spiral slide -- and failed to duck under a bar at the top
that was meant for much shorter people.

Worse, between my sweat-soaked clothes and my body occupying more
degrees of the curve than the designer planned, I went down so slowly
that I almost had to push. No fun at all.

And the moral is? Wear a helmet on the slide ? :-)

If people would take the "Always wear your helmet!!!" advice more
literally, we'd enjoy LOTS more "My helmet saved my life!!!!" stories.
Wearing it on a playground slide is a step in that direction, all right!

Oh wait... the CPSC is disagreeing:
http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Newsroom/News...n-Playgrounds/


Shame on you, Joy! ;-)

While I don't doubt that a helmet, at times, can indeed keep your
noggin' intact, I think mostly it doesn't. Would one really have had a
head bashing event without one? If so, what else would have been
bashed? Ribs, heart, spleen, et al.? Depends what you've run into I guess.

By all means wear a helmet if you feel you are otherwise defying death
while riding a bicycle. And if it gets someone riding a bicycle, then
it has been at its most effective to my mind.

I used to ride a motorcycle and would feel naked without a helmet. Even
though neighboring states of NH and RI didn't require them, I would
never ride without one when in those states.

But I don't feel that way about riding a bike. My knees, shins, hips,
elbows, wrists and shoulders would be more likely to take knocks than my
head.

Of course wearing one can't really hurt. But will one apply such same
reasoning to driving a car or walking?

It's all a matter of danger perception and how effective you believe a
helmet is. Not wearing one isn't a case of stupidity or death wish as
some helmet zealots often seem to say or imply (not that you are saying
such things).


SMH

Stephen - while you are correct that there isn't a shred of evidence that helmets do much of anything there is also no evidence that they do not do SOMETHING. Hence I wear a helmet despite knowing the technical difficulties of designing such a device.

One aspect of the helmet nonsense that amazes me is that such statements
always apply only to bicycling. They're never applied to the other
activities that generate far more TBI fatalities or serious injuries.

You know, things like walking near traffic. Riding in motor vehicles.
Using ladders, descending stairs...


The Center for Brain Injuries Services
http://www.headinjuryctr-stl.org/statistics.html
has it that, in the U.S., between 75 and 100,000 individuals die of
Traumatic Brain Injury annually.

Over 50% of those who sustain a Brain Injury have been intoxicated at
the time or injury.

51% of these injuries, or from 38 to 50 thousand are the result of
Motor Vehicle Accidents

About 75% of all bicyclists who die each year die of head injuries.


I think you'll find (unless it's very different from the UK, which
seems unlikely given the common mechanism of injury) that it's 75%
that have a brain injury at the time of their death, which may well
have occurred anyway due to other injuries.
Not much point in keeping your head in one piece if you've bled out
anyway. And even a motorcycle helmet won't save your head if a heavy
truck drives over it, or even some much lighter vehicles. So the most
you can do is cite that 75% as an upper bound.


Nope. I was using the numbers posted on the site I referenced. Which
says, specifically, "About 75% of all bicyclists who die each year die
of head injuries". No if, and, or but, about it, that is what they
said.

(And everyone knows that what you read on the Internet is always
correct!)

So... looking at Danger, Danger, wearing a helmet while motoring might
save as many, oh say 50,000 annually, and wearing a helmet while
bicycling might save as many as ~700 X .75 or ~525.


525 would be the maximum even theoretically possible, if helmets were
100% effective, and no other life threatening injuries occurred at the
same time.

When a team of pathologists and epidemiologists studied the UK cycling
deaths in detail, it was found that even if every TBI in the area
covered by the helmet was prevented by their use, 3 lives a year would
be saved. All the others would have died from other injuries anyway.

The lesson is, of course, that while it certainly should be mandatory
for cyclists to wear a helmet it is totally unnecessary for the
motorist.

Logic, of course, is very pervasive :-)


One of the major causes of TBI that I've seen cited is falls in the
shower. With slippery conditions and hard surfaces all around, it
really isn't all that surprising. Maybe we need better standards for
shower caps?

Enforcement might be tricky though - I can imagine that there would be
strong resistance to the shower police checking up on possible illicit
scofflaw showerists.


Obviously the easy way to ensure compliance with the law is simply to
outlaw "showers". After all, Queen Elizabeth ( Elizabeth I), was said
to bath once a month and what is good for royalty should be more than
sufficient for the masses.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #16  
Old September 13th 15, 02:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
John B.[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,202
Default Thunked my helmet a fourth time

On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 09:52:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/11/2015 9:54 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 20:05:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2015 1:39 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 9:53:16 AM UTC-7, Stephen Harding wrote:
On 9/2/2015 9:42 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/2/2015 7:04 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 02 Sep 2015 00:35:10 -0300, Joy Beeson
wrote:


I've had three helmet-thunking falls in the last fifty years.

I think it was in the eighties that I touched wheels while on a
multi-day tour. Got up and finished the ride.

A couple of years ago I slipped on some rotten leaves concealed under
what appeared to be a drift of dry leaves, and had the same exact
fall. The muscles attached to my ribs were still feeling it two
months later; I don't bounce like I uster. (I did ride home, but
after stiffening up, I could just barely walk.)

A couple of months ago I dropped a piece of paper while stopped to
read a map, and thought I could pick it up without dismounting. Sense
of balance ain't what it used to be; being tangled in the bike, I hit
like a bag of wet cement and banged up the same ribs. But it was only
one day before I could cough; the wet leaves took a week.

Today -- clock just struck, make that yesterday -- I made a pit stop
at a playground. It was the middle of a school day, so the place was
deserted. I looked all around: yes, there are no witnesses. I
climbed the spiral slide -- and failed to duck under a bar at the top
that was meant for much shorter people.

Worse, between my sweat-soaked clothes and my body occupying more
degrees of the curve than the designer planned, I went down so slowly
that I almost had to push. No fun at all.

And the moral is? Wear a helmet on the slide ? :-)

If people would take the "Always wear your helmet!!!" advice more
literally, we'd enjoy LOTS more "My helmet saved my life!!!!" stories.
Wearing it on a playground slide is a step in that direction, all right!

Oh wait... the CPSC is disagreeing:
http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Newsroom/News...n-Playgrounds/


Shame on you, Joy! ;-)

While I don't doubt that a helmet, at times, can indeed keep your
noggin' intact, I think mostly it doesn't. Would one really have had a
head bashing event without one? If so, what else would have been
bashed? Ribs, heart, spleen, et al.? Depends what you've run into I guess.

By all means wear a helmet if you feel you are otherwise defying death
while riding a bicycle. And if it gets someone riding a bicycle, then
it has been at its most effective to my mind.

I used to ride a motorcycle and would feel naked without a helmet. Even
though neighboring states of NH and RI didn't require them, I would
never ride without one when in those states.

But I don't feel that way about riding a bike. My knees, shins, hips,
elbows, wrists and shoulders would be more likely to take knocks than my
head.

Of course wearing one can't really hurt. But will one apply such same
reasoning to driving a car or walking?

It's all a matter of danger perception and how effective you believe a
helmet is. Not wearing one isn't a case of stupidity or death wish as
some helmet zealots often seem to say or imply (not that you are saying
such things).


SMH

Stephen - while you are correct that there isn't a shred of evidence that helmets do much of anything there is also no evidence that they do not do SOMETHING. Hence I wear a helmet despite knowing the technical difficulties of designing such a device.

One aspect of the helmet nonsense that amazes me is that such statements
always apply only to bicycling. They're never applied to the other
activities that generate far more TBI fatalities or serious injuries.

You know, things like walking near traffic. Riding in motor vehicles.
Using ladders, descending stairs...


The Center for Brain Injuries Services
http://www.headinjuryctr-stl.org/statistics.html
has it that, in the U.S., between 75 and 100,000 individuals die of
Traumatic Brain Injury annually.

...

About 75% of all bicyclists who die each year die of head injuries.


I believe that last figure is wrong.

First, from 1997 to 2007, the U.S. averaged only 730 bike fatalities per
year. That's a small number when compared to other TBI deaths, or other
deaths in general.

The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, in Victor G. Coronado et.
al., "Surveillance for Traumatic Brain Injury Related Deaths, United
States, 1997?2007" Surveillance Summaries May 6, 2011 / 60(SS05); 1?32
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwr...cid=ss6005a1_w
shows, in table 10, that for 1997-2007 there were an average of just 325
bicyclist traumatic brain injury (TBI) fatalities per year. The total
annual TBI fatalities from all causes averaged 53014.

Also note from the above data that only 44.5% of cyclist fatalities
(325/730) were due to head injuries .

And BTW, roughly 45% of fatally injured pedestrians also died of TBI,
according to that paper's data.

Americans have been convinced that bicycling is a huge risk of fatal
TBI, and is unique in this risk. It's an advertising scam, weirdly
adopted by the medical profession, which seems hell-bent on ignoring its
own data.


I suggest that the modern "danger, danger" fantasy is largely a carry
over from childhood. Hiding one's head under the blanket doesn't
really make the boogy-man go away, but since he can't be seen it makes
it seem so.

In essence, being born (a hazard in itself) simply launches an
individual on a life long exposure to all sorts of dangers.

Perhaps, as it is simply impossible to avoid all dangers, individuals
simply rationalize away their fears. Example, we refer to "auto
accidents" although a large, perhaps majority, of the crashes are
ultimately the fault of one or both of the drivers. How is it an
accident if it was caused by someone?

And, probably because of some irregularity in the human brain people
frequently rationalize "dangers" in a totally illogical manner. For
example, it is not uncommon to find people that fear to fly - "Oh No!
I can't go on the airplane, it is just so dangerous" - although they
express no fear over making the same trip in an automobile which is,
in fact, vastly more dangerous.

In all the American wars there have been 651,008 Battle Deaths; and
about 1.2 million deaths during service in war time. If we average the
larger number over the period that the U.S. has existed we have an
average death rate in wars of some 4,602 per year. the death rate from
auto "accidents" in 2013 was 32,719. Strangely though when we say
"Johnny's gone for a solder" it is a matter for tears and worry. But
when we say, "Johnny's bought a new car", it is a time for a party.

As for the dangers of bicycling, well there have been about 700, or
slightly more deaths annually. In contrast, about 1100 women die
annually while giving birth, nearly 6,000 pedestrians are killed
annually, 13,000 die from falls, 3,400 from drowning, approximately
700 from exposure to cold weather.

In short, for a married man, his wife is about 1-1/2 times more likely
to die if he gets her pregnant than if he buys her a bicycle.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #17  
Old September 13th 15, 02:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,919
Default Thunked my helmet a fourth time

On 9/12/2015 5:00 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
John B. considered Sat, 12 Sep 2015 08:54:40
+0700 the perfect time to write:


About 75% of all bicyclists who die each year die of head injuries.


I think you'll find (unless it's very different from the UK, which
seems unlikely given the common mechanism of injury) that it's 75%
that have a brain injury at the time of their death, which may well
have occurred anyway due to other injuries.
Not much point in keeping your head in one piece if you've bled out
anyway. And even a motorcycle helmet won't save your head if a heavy
truck drives over it, or even some much lighter vehicles. So the most
you can do is cite that 75% as an upper bound.


I suspect the origin of the overestimate was a propaganda statement that
"75% of bicyclist fatalities involve a head injury." At least, that's
the way I first saw it expressed years ago. (Sorry, no citation.)

That version may be literally true - as in, the dead cyclist may have
had his abdomen run over by a truck's wheels, and he also got a little
scratch on his head. But the phrasing was obviously intended to trick
the reader into believing that helmets might prevent something like 75%
of fatalities. And other helmet proselytizers missed the subtlety and
went for the straight-out lie.

Similarly, after the infamous Thompson & Rivara paper of 1989 claimed
that helmets prevent 85% of head injuries, another paper used that
number to claim universal helmet use would prevent 85% of American bike
fatalities. And astonishingly, that made it through peer review.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #18  
Old September 14th 15, 01:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
John B.[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,202
Default Thunked my helmet a fourth time

On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 18:31:09 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

John B. considered Sun, 13 Sep 2015 07:37:04
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 22:00:14 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

John B. considered Sat, 12 Sep 2015 08:54:40
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 20:05:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


A great deal deleted


I think you'll find (unless it's very different from the UK, which
seems unlikely given the common mechanism of injury) that it's 75%
that have a brain injury at the time of their death, which may well
have occurred anyway due to other injuries.
Not much point in keeping your head in one piece if you've bled out
anyway. And even a motorcycle helmet won't save your head if a heavy
truck drives over it, or even some much lighter vehicles. So the most
you can do is cite that 75% as an upper bound.


Nope. I was using the numbers posted on the site I referenced. Which
says, specifically, "About 75% of all bicyclists who die each year die
of head injuries". No if, and, or but, about it, that is what they
said.


But as I pointed out, if there's no reference to whatever other
injuries they suffered at the same time, it's utterly irrelevant.
Also, given the site is specifically concerning brain injury, they are
hardly impartial. Brain injury charities and trusts were the first to
drink the helmet koolaid.


I find that most statistics are faulty, in the sense that they do not
tell the whole story. Try, for example, to discover how many actually
ride a bicycle on a frequent enough basis to be called cyclists. One
set of statistics, from a bicycle advocacy group I believe, claimed to
count every person that had ridden a bicycle at least once in the
previous year, which is akin to counting everyone who got a bit tiddly
at the annual New Year's Party as an alcoholic.

The more detailed survey's usually start out counting the number of
cyclists who visit a clinic for medical treatment, which is, perhaps,
the only place to get an idea of how many injuries occur although not
providing an accurate picture of total injuries.

On the other hand "head injuries" are usually defined as "any injury
to the head" which may well totally ignore the fact that the injured
party has suffered a crushed pelvis a well as severe blood loss.

Another thing that doesn't seem to surface in the usual statistical
study is the fact that there was a reason for conducting the survey in
the first place and that generally surveys are conducted to "prove a
point" and frequently do not contain "all encompassing" data.

For example, I had a good friend who made a living conducting market
surveys to determine whether a new product or service was financially
viable. He said that nearly 100% of his surveys were conducted on
behalf of an individual, or department, that was advocating a new
project. And, surprisingly enough, most of his work proved the
viability of the project.

In the case at hand, if we cite 75% as the cause of death, which may
or may not be a viable number, but ignore the apparent fact reported
by the California Highway Patrol that in 60% of the auto-bicycle
collisions that the cyclist was at fault, while we may have identified
the immediate cause of death we have totally ignored the underlying
cause. And thus our study, while (perhaps) accurately reporting the
immediate cause of death actually presents a wholly erroneous picture
of the cause of bicycle deaths.

(And everyone knows that what you read on the Internet is always
correct!)

So... looking at Danger, Danger, wearing a helmet while motoring might
save as many, oh say 50,000 annually, and wearing a helmet while
bicycling might save as many as ~700 X .75 or ~525.

525 would be the maximum even theoretically possible, if helmets were
100% effective, and no other life threatening injuries occurred at the
same time.

When a team of pathologists and epidemiologists studied the UK cycling
deaths in detail, it was found that even if every TBI in the area
covered by the helmet was prevented by their use, 3 lives a year would
be saved. All the others would have died from other injuries anyway.

The lesson is, of course, that while it certainly should be mandatory
for cyclists to wear a helmet it is totally unnecessary for the
motorist.

Logic, of course, is very pervasive :-)

One of the major causes of TBI that I've seen cited is falls in the
shower. With slippery conditions and hard surfaces all around, it
really isn't all that surprising. Maybe we need better standards for
shower caps?

Enforcement might be tricky though - I can imagine that there would be
strong resistance to the shower police checking up on possible illicit
scofflaw showerists.


Obviously the easy way to ensure compliance with the law is simply to
outlaw "showers". After all, Queen Elizabeth ( Elizabeth I), was said
to bath once a month and what is good for royalty should be more than
sufficient for the masses.


I believe that she was said to have bathed "every year, whether she
needed to or not".
However, given the vast improvements in life expectancy brought about
by improved hygeine standards, and the huge pandemics that would
likely occur with modern travel if such a bathing regime were returned
to, it would almost certainly be counter-productive.


When I was growing up, in rural New England, during the winter months
one bath a week was considered by many as sufficient. I fact Saturday
night was the traditional time for the weekly bath.

--
cheers,

John B.

  #19  
Old September 21st 15, 12:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 145
Default Thunked my helmet a fourth time

On Friday, September 11, 2015 at 6:54:43 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't follow that at all. Each year about 2% of the traffic deaths and injuries are bicyclists.

Each year about 14% of the traffic deaths and injuries are pedestrians.

All the rest are motor vehicles.

Statistically there is no difference per cycling mile between those who wear and those who do not wear helmets.

I could go into great detail about helmets since I started learning about them as the Safety Director of the American Federation of Motorcyclists about the time Bell started and I had some long discussions with people at Bell.. I am also an engineer and a scientist. I wrote one of the few peer reviewed papers on bicycle helmets.

Helmets are capable of VERY little and at the cost of setting you up for two other kinds of killer injuries.

I wear one because they are good for one thing - keeping your head from getting gravel rash in a mild crash. In harder crashes they can cause severe concussions or broken necks. Funny thing - evolution didn't design your head like a helmet for a reason.

The majority of accidents to adults are the fault of the car. An approaching driver making a sudden left turn. And a car approaching from behind, accelerating to pass you and then suddenly turning right.

The left turn danger is MUCH reduced if you wear bright clothing. This both makes you much easier to see to the approaching driver plus it makes it more difficult for the driver to guess your speed making him think you are faster than he might otherwise think.

The "right hook" is impossible to prevent. But you can be aware of the sounds of a driver about to pull this dumb stunt.
  #20  
Old September 21st 15, 12:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 145
Default Thunked my helmet a fourth time

On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 6:41:45 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/12/2015 5:00 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
John B. considered Sat, 12 Sep 2015 08:54:40
+0700 the perfect time to write:


About 75% of all bicyclists who die each year die of head injuries.


I think you'll find (unless it's very different from the UK, which
seems unlikely given the common mechanism of injury) that it's 75%
that have a brain injury at the time of their death, which may well
have occurred anyway due to other injuries.
Not much point in keeping your head in one piece if you've bled out
anyway. And even a motorcycle helmet won't save your head if a heavy
truck drives over it, or even some much lighter vehicles. So the most
you can do is cite that 75% as an upper bound.


I suspect the origin of the overestimate was a propaganda statement that
"75% of bicyclist fatalities involve a head injury." At least, that's
the way I first saw it expressed years ago. (Sorry, no citation.)

That version may be literally true - as in, the dead cyclist may have
had his abdomen run over by a truck's wheels, and he also got a little
scratch on his head. But the phrasing was obviously intended to trick
the reader into believing that helmets might prevent something like 75%
of fatalities. And other helmet proselytizers missed the subtlety and
went for the straight-out lie.

Similarly, after the infamous Thompson & Rivara paper of 1989 claimed
that helmets prevent 85% of head injuries, another paper used that
number to claim universal helmet use would prevent 85% of American bike
fatalities. And astonishingly, that made it through peer review.
--
- Frank Krygowski


Helmets are designed to do one thing and one thing only. It was designed around the old coaster bike where you were trying to make an emergency stop you would stand up. That put your head about 2 meters above the ground. The helmet was designed not for a collision but for a sideways fall from that standing position.

This ALSO turns out to be the largest sized helmet that a cyclist can be convinced to wear. Unfortunately your brain inside your skull is not designed to make a stop as suddenly as a helmet is designed to prevent skull injuries.

The human skull is evolved to fracture at just short of the point at which concussion occurs. Protecting the skull beyond this point causes concussion or the tearing loose of the brain's moorings inside the skull causing damage both from the tears and the smashing into the skull at the opposite side..

While most concussions are relatively minor they can be deadly or they can result in what happened to me - severe memory loss and a type of seizure that leaves no memory of it occurring. So I totaled four cars without knowing why before the DMV pulled my license on suggestion of my finally discovered "real" neurologist. Most neurologists treat aging diseases and rapidly forget their training for other far less common neurology illnesses.

The other thing is that the aero shape of a helmet is a lever that can rapidly twist the head breaking the neck. Helmet designs adjust for this by making the back aero section much weaker so that a side blow easily shatters the helmet. Of course that means that the helmet cannot give the "benefits" of the frontal area of the helmet.

Helmet manufacturers are in between a rock and a hard place. The good helmets do are mostly in racing where the head strikes are generally mild and the helmet protects the head from friction injuries on irregular surfaces. This is especially helpful in motorcycle racing. This is the reason for the very hard shell.

Since sport riders generally are more experienced and more aware they very seldom have serious injuries except high speed descents. Occasionally they are not paying attention and can get a right-hook or get doored. None of these are protected by helmets.

And when you look at cyclist's deaths and injuries the majority are on cyclists 15 years and younger. Closer investigation shows very bad riding skills such as riding on the wrong side of the street.

We have a member of our riding group who has 8 year old twin girls that he has trained to ride correctly from a very early age. With them riding relatively very heavy mountain style bikes we'll go on 30 mile rides and these little girls are very difficult to stay with on the climbs unless you're in good shape. You won't see these girls getting in any accidents since they ride more professionally than most of the group.
 




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