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What is the biggest cause of road accidents in the UK?



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 3rd 19, 01:06 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.transport,uk.rec.driving
jnugent
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Default What is the biggest cause of road accidents in the UK?

On 03/12/2019 09:28, NY wrote:
"JNugent" wrote in message
...
On 02/12/2019 20:25, Bod wrote:

On 02/12/2019 20:19, JNugent wrote:
On 02/12/2019 20:15, Bod wrote:


The most common cause of accidents is to driver error. Over 100,000
(108,479) crashes occured in the UK due to cars suddenly braking,
drivers failing to look properly, poor car maneuvering and/or loss
of control.2 Jul 2018

How interesting.

What does it have to do with cycling?

Cyclists cause a fraction of that amount of accidents.


You have no idea of the number of accidents in which cyclists are
involved (as cyclists).


There are far more powered vehicles on the road than bicycles on the
road (apart from in large towns, maybe) and they go faster so can cause
more damage if things go wrong. So it is hardly surprising that they
will be the cause of more accidents.


The potential seriousness of the effects of an accident is one thing and
you are obviously correct in what you say about that.

But accidents befalling motor vehicles on the highway (and which cause
injury or damage( have to be reported to the police and so may be
accounted for in official statistics, to a nicety. Accidents befalling
cyclists do not have to be reported. There is thus no way of knowing how
many there are. I doubt that many cyclists who fall off their bikes - or
have other accidents short of injuring themselves so badly as to bneed
emergeny hospital treatment - report that to the police for official
purposes.

But cyclists are not *always* blameless. Consider a cyclist who rides
through a red traffic light into the path of other traffic, or who pulls
out of a side road. Other traffic brakes hard to avoid hitting him;
maybe one of them skids and hits other vehicles/pedestrians, or is
rear-ended. The cyclist is not hit, and continues unaffected. Is that
cyclist blameless? Now consider the same situation where it was a car,
not a cyclist, who went through a red light or pulled out of a side
road; is that car driver blameless? In my mind, both a blameworthy to
the same extent, but there is a philosophy that accidents are always
"not the cyclist's fault".


Quite so.
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  #12  
Old December 3rd 19, 01:08 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.transport,uk.rec.driving
TMS320
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Posts: 2,979
Default What is the biggest cause of road accidents in the UK?

On 03/12/2019 09:59, nightjar wrote:

In terms of casualties per billion miles travelled, at 5,604, they are
only second to motorcyclists at 6,043. Other figures are pedestrians
1,801, cars 238, buses 198, vans 62 and LGVs 61. (2017 figures)


That would be deaths. In terms of serious injuries they rank a slightly
higher mileage than pedestrians.

However, the main argument (on u.r.c) is about certain drivers claiming
that cyclists are evil pedestrian killers. The main culprit x-posted this.
  #13  
Old December 3rd 19, 01:28 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.transport,uk.rec.driving
Nightjar
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Posts: 14
Default What is the biggest cause of road accidents in the UK?

On 03/12/2019 12:08, TMS320 wrote:
On 03/12/2019 09:59, nightjar wrote:

In terms of casualties per billion miles travelled, at 5,604, they are
only second to motorcyclists at 6,043. Other figures are pedestrians
1,801, cars 238, buses 198, vans 62 and LGVs 61. (2017 figures)


That would be deaths. In terms of serious injuries they rank a slightly
higher mileage than pedestrians.


It is the other way around. The figures I gave are for all casualties.
For deaths per billion passenger miles, it is 30.9 for cyclists and 35.6
for pedestrians.

However, the main argument (on u.r.c) is about certain drivers claiming
that cyclists are evil pedestrian killers. The main culprit x-posted this.




--
Colin Bignell
  #14  
Old December 3rd 19, 01:30 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
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Posts: 2,979
Default What is the biggest cause of road accidents in the UK?

On 03/12/2019 12:06, JNugent wrote:

But accidents befalling motor vehicles on the highway (and which cause
injury or damage( have to be reported to the police and so may be


Damage does not have to be reported...

accounted for in official statistics,


....so is not counted.
  #15  
Old December 3rd 19, 01:36 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.transport,uk.rec.driving
NY[_2_]
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Default What is the biggest cause of road accidents in the UK?

"TMS320" wrote in message
...
On 03/12/2019 09:28, NY wrote:

The problem we have is of finger pointing at cyclists by drivers that have
over inflated ideas about their driving ability.


I think the biggest problem is the impunity of cyclists: because they don't
have number-plates, they cannot easily be traced and reported for occasions
when they do break laws which would see a motorist prosecuted. in other
words, resentment rather than concern about safety. I may fume inwardly but
I refuse to get riled by bad cyclists when I'm driving; other people regard
inconsiderate cyclists as fair game.

I cycle - for pleasure rather than as means of getting from A to B - and I
try to cycle as if I were a human-powered car, obeying all the same rules as
a car driver: I don't go through red traffic lights or occupied zebra
crossings, and I don't overtake on the left at junction if I want to go
straight on and the car ahead of me is indicating to turn left. As a cyclist
and a car driver I have seen an alarmingly high number of cyclists who don't
obey the rules - and get away with it. On two occasions I've witnessed
pedestrians on a zebra crossing have to jump back to avoid being hit by
cyclists. (*). If a car driver did that he would be rightly prosecuted;
cyclists seem to get away with it as it is regarded as a venial offence.
Being hit by a cyclist at 20-30 mph is nowhere near as bad as being hit by a
car, but it can still be fatal.

It is the holier-than-thou "I'm a cyclist so the rules of the road are a
mere inconvenience - ignore them" cyclists that give the rest a bad name -
unfairly.

As a driver, I hope I make a better cyclist because I can sympathise with
the needs of cars to overtake a much slower vehicle. As a cyclist, I hope I
make a better driver - I know to pass them as wide as possible, not to
hassle them when they are struggling up a hill that is chickenfeed to a car.
I try to keep as far left as is safe (avoiding the kerb and drainholes), and
when my wife and I are cycling, we always move into single file when there
are cars wanting to get past, even though the law allows two abreast.
Incidentally, "two abreast" doesn't allow cyclists to ride one close to the
kerb and one almost over the white line, with a gap "that you could drive a
double-decker bus through" in between, purposefully making it as hard as
possible for anyone to get past.


(*) I was out cycling in the centre of Oxford, where tourists are to be
expected. As I was approaching a zebra crossing I saw a large group of
people, who I imagine were tourists, starting to cross. I slowed down, as
did the cars ahead and behind me. Another cyclist, on a racing bike, yelled
"out of my ****ing way", overtook and swerved round the traffic and between
a car and bollard, and rode full-tilt at the crossing, causing a party of
tourists to leap out of the way. He deserved to be punished as severely as a
car or lorry driver that did the same - but of course he was untraceable. A
rare occasion, but one that sticks in the mind, with a danger that people
think "all cyclists" are like that.

  #16  
Old December 3rd 19, 01:38 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.transport,uk.rec.driving
jnugent
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Posts: 10,885
Default What is the biggest cause of road accidents in the UK?

On 03/12/2019 12:08, TMS320 wrote:

On 03/12/2019 09:59, nightjar wrote:

In terms of casualties per billion miles travelled, at 5,604, they are
only second to motorcyclists at 6,043. Other figures are pedestrians
1,801, cars 238, buses 198, vans 62 and LGVs 61. (2017 figures)


That would be deaths. In terms of serious injuries they rank a slightly
higher mileage than pedestrians.

However, the main argument (on u.r.c) is about certain drivers claiming
that cyclists are evil pedestrian killers. The main culprit x-posted this.


Only *some* cyclists are "evil pedestrian killers".

"Evil pedestrian killers" is, of course, *your* phrase and certainly not
mine. But it is a very telling one and I am grateful for your coinage of it.
  #17  
Old December 3rd 19, 01:41 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.transport,uk.rec.driving
TMS320
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Posts: 2,979
Default What is the biggest cause of road accidents in the UK?

On 03/12/2019 12:28, nightjar wrote:
On 03/12/2019 12:08, TMS320 wrote:
On 03/12/2019 09:59, nightjar wrote:

In terms of casualties per billion miles travelled, at 5,604, they
are only second to motorcyclists at 6,043. Other figures are
pedestrians 1,801, cars 238, buses 198, vans 62 and LGVs 61. (2017
figures)


That would be deaths. In terms of serious injuries they rank a
slightly higher mileage than pedestrians.


It is the other way around. The figures I gave are for all casualties.
For deaths per billion passenger miles, it is 30.9 for cyclists and 35.6
for pedestrians.


Ah yes, you are correct. Injuries similar to motorcyclists, deaths
similar to pedestrians.

However, if fewer injuries convert to deaths, the typical injury must be
less severe. Something difficult to assess when only the fact of an
injury gets recorded.
  #18  
Old December 3rd 19, 02:34 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
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Posts: 2,979
Default What is the biggest cause of road accidents in the UK?

On 03/12/2019 12:38, JNugent wrote:
On 03/12/2019 12:08, TMS320 wrote:


However, the main argument (on u.r.c) is about certain drivers
claiming that cyclists are evil pedestrian killers. The main culprit
x-posted this.


Only *some* cyclists are "evil pedestrian killers".


It's usually only cyclists (who don't ride fixies) that backpedal.

"Evil pedestrian killers" is, of course, *your* phrase and certainly not
mine. But it is a very telling one and I am grateful for your coinage of
it.


I don't claim you said it and will take the credit, if that is what you
want. But I will maintain that it is a summary of you stand for.

  #19  
Old December 3rd 19, 02:44 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
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Posts: 10,885
Default What is the biggest cause of road accidents in the UK?

On 03/12/2019 12:30, TMS320 wrote:

On 03/12/2019 12:06, JNugent wrote:

But accidents befalling motor vehicles on the highway (and which cause
injury or damage( have to be reported to the police and so may be


Damage does not have to be reported...


That depends on the circumstances... so you are not correct in what you say.

accounted for in official statistics,


...so is not counted.


  #20  
Old December 3rd 19, 02:46 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
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Posts: 10,885
Default What is the biggest cause of road accidents in the UK?

On 03/12/2019 13:34, TMS320 wrote:
On 03/12/2019 12:38, JNugent wrote:
On 03/12/2019 12:08, TMS320 wrote:


However, the main argument (on u.r.c) is about certain drivers
claiming that cyclists are evil pedestrian killers. The main culprit
x-posted this.


Only *some* cyclists are "evil pedestrian killers".


It's usually only cyclists (who don't ride fixies) that backpedal.

"Evil pedestrian killers" is, of course, *your* phrase and certainly
not mine. But it is a very telling one and I am grateful for your
coinage of it.


I don't claim you said it and will take the credit, if that is what you
want. But I will maintain that it is a summary of you stand for.


I do indeed stand four-square for the rights of pedestrians on footways
and in pedestrian-only zones.

But you don't, do you?
 




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