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  #11  
Old September 22nd 17, 09:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 82
Default Buying and Selling

On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 10:20:11 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 9:34:01 PM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
jbeattie wrote:

Also, I'm not following. Is Trek good or bad? You do know that they are
now operating company stores, directly employing (and paying benefits,
including 401ks) to many home-grown Americans? They also employ plenty of
workers at company headquarters and elsewhere and make domestic profits.
You buy Colnagos, a company with no US headquarters or manufacturing --
and in fact, its high end product is made in Italy -- a socialist country
that was aligned with the Nazis at the outbreak of WWII. Do you hate
America? Are you a Nazi sympathizer? Do you prefer bicycles made in a
socialist country? Why don't you own American bikes? I do -- plus a
Canadian one, which is like America with a health plan.

-- Jay Beattie.


Wow Jay! You've got a CCM? Or was it a SuperCycle?


Norco -- a Canadian company. The frame is made in Taiwan by honorary Canadians. They even have a hockey team. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7nepg5W0AAZNEu.jpg Eh?


I actually laughed out loud at that.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
Ads
  #12  
Old September 22nd 17, 09:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 6,104
Default Buying and Selling

Buy n sell in Feb/March

Or buy August to ? During an economic 'downturn'
  #13  
Old September 22nd 17, 10:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,983
Default Buying and Selling

On 9/22/2017 12:36 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote:
On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote:

On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote:


snip

Or the brake pads from China, $2/pair and free ship. As I have always
said the postage fees are grossly lopsided between Asia and the US and
that is one of the core reasosn for our trade deficit. Except that most
politicians (except manybe one ...) do not understand that.


It's an international reciprocal postal treaty that no one worried about
when it was mainly U.S. residents of Chinese descent sending packages to
relatives in China.



More than a decade ago tyat has changed, big time. How long does it take
for politicians to turn on their brains? Or for some of them, do they
even have one?


A long time when it's a treaty with hundreds of countries that's been in
effect since 1874.

The Universal Postal Union established that each country should retain
all money it has collected for international postage. In 1874, or even
1974, you did not have Chinese companies mailing low-value consumer
goods to other countries.

Of course other countries could reciprocally abuse it, but there aren't
many companies manufacturing low-value consumer goods and shipping them
to Chinese consumers.
  #14  
Old September 23rd 17, 12:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,442
Default Buying and Selling

On 2017-09-22 14:24, sms wrote:
On 9/22/2017 12:36 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote:
On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote:

On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote:

snip

Or the brake pads from China, $2/pair and free ship. As I have always
said the postage fees are grossly lopsided between Asia and the US and
that is one of the core reasosn for our trade deficit. Except that most
politicians (except manybe one ...) do not understand that.

It's an international reciprocal postal treaty that no one worried about
when it was mainly U.S. residents of Chinese descent sending packages to
relatives in China.



More than a decade ago tyat has changed, big time. How long does it
take for politicians to turn on their brains? Or for some of them, do
they even have one?


A long time when it's a treaty with hundreds of countries that's been in
effect since 1874.


Our elected leaders need to investigate deeper than that. For example,
when a country massively subsidizes its postal system to undercut sales
channels of another country that is in effect the same as dumping and
there are international laws against that.


The Universal Postal Union established that each country should retain
all money it has collected for international postage. In 1874, or even
1974, you did not have Chinese companies mailing low-value consumer
goods to other countries.


Now we do and if anti-dumping laws aren't effective against abuse we
need to modify those treaties. Just as is being done with NAFTA right
now, and for good reasons.


Of course other countries could reciprocally abuse it, but there aren't
many companies manufacturing low-value consumer goods and shipping them
to Chinese consumers.



It is not all about low value merchandise. To give you just one example:
A guy like me wants to build some electronics for his bicycles and then
find out "Oh rats, I am out of those buck switcher ICs". The guy is not
in a hurry because it's just hobby stuff. He looks at a domestic source
and finds out that the $0.50 parts are available but there will be hefty
shipping fees. Then he fires up EBay, Alibaba or whatever and .. voila
... the same regulator ICs for roughly the same $0.50 but .. free
shipping. Then he needs a new light. $20. Plus another $12.95 shipping.
WHAT?! Goes on EBay or Amazon - finds Chinese vendor - $20 and free
shipping - ka-ching.

A few days ago while painting I realized that I need brushes that I can
cut and add an angle bracket to but where the tip is short. Not
available locally, web dealers wanted too much in shipping. Found them
in Hong Kong for less than $1.50 a pop and free shipping. So I ordered
- ka-ching. This is not good for domestic painting suppliers.

Multiply this by a gazillion cases and we have a problem.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #15  
Old September 23rd 17, 03:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,367
Default Buying and Selling

On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 12:36:31 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote:
On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote:

On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote:


snip

Or the brake pads from China, $2/pair and free ship. As I have always
said the postage fees are grossly lopsided between Asia and the US and
that is one of the core reasosn for our trade deficit. Except that most
politicians (except manybe one ...) do not understand that.


It's an international reciprocal postal treaty that no one worried about
when it was mainly U.S. residents of Chinese descent sending packages to
relatives in China.



More than a decade ago tyat has changed, big time. How long does it take
for politicians to turn on their brains? Or for some of them, do they
even have one?


... The origin country gets all the postage and the
destination country gets nothing with the assumption that the volume
will be roughly equal.

The small volume of direct-to-consumer low-value items from China is not
a core reason for the trade deficit.



It is rising, big time. I know people who buy just about anything other
than groceries on EBay. When they say "Oh, it always gets here in three
to five weeks" you know what's going on. Heck, I even had stuff I bought
on Amazon come via "China Post".


... These items would still come into
the U.S. through other channels, at higher prices, were it not so cheap
to do international shipping from China, you'd just have a middleman.



Same reason. The stuff then comes in bulk but the shipping charges are
grossly lower than if a US vendor sent the same items to Asia. It isn't
just China. For example, when we needed name tags for our therapy dogs'
vests (for nursing home visits) we ordered them via Amazon. A small
package arrived from Manila, Philippines. I couldn't believe it
considering that we had paid just a few Dollars. Looked at the postage,
calculated - $0.60. Airmail! It came from a seamstress who appears to
specialize in cloth name tags. The shipping cost discrepancy alone puts
similar seamstresses in the US out of business.


Given that the cost of living, and salaries, are as much as five times
cheaper in China than in the U.S. how is changing the mailing costs
going to effect sales?

My wife's older sister and her son, his wife, and the grand kids
visited Thailand about six months ago. The grandson, probably 19 years
old, told me that he worked part time at "the dollar store" unloading
trucks for $10 an hour. The current minimum salary in Thailand is 300
baht, about $9 a day. At today's exchange rate the U.S. salary, for
coolie labour, is ~9 times the Thai salary.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #16  
Old September 23rd 17, 03:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,367
Default Buying and Selling

On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 16:20:17 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-22 14:24, sms wrote:
On 9/22/2017 12:36 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote:
On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote:

On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote:

snip

Or the brake pads from China, $2/pair and free ship. As I have always
said the postage fees are grossly lopsided between Asia and the US and
that is one of the core reasosn for our trade deficit. Except that most
politicians (except manybe one ...) do not understand that.

It's an international reciprocal postal treaty that no one worried about
when it was mainly U.S. residents of Chinese descent sending packages to
relatives in China.


More than a decade ago tyat has changed, big time. How long does it
take for politicians to turn on their brains? Or for some of them, do
they even have one?


A long time when it's a treaty with hundreds of countries that's been in
effect since 1874.


Our elected leaders need to investigate deeper than that. For example,
when a country massively subsidizes its postal system to undercut sales
channels of another country that is in effect the same as dumping and
there are international laws against that.


But does China subsidize the mailing costs there? As an example.
Mailing a letter in Thailand is 2 baht, about US$0.06, I read that the
same item in the U.S. costs more then eight times more expensive.

"Dumping", by the way is selling a product for less then the cost of
the item


The Universal Postal Union established that each country should retain
all money it has collected for international postage. In 1874, or even
1974, you did not have Chinese companies mailing low-value consumer
goods to other countries.


Now we do and if anti-dumping laws aren't effective against abuse we
need to modify those treaties. Just as is being done with NAFTA right
now, and for good reasons.


Of course other countries could reciprocally abuse it, but there aren't
many companies manufacturing low-value consumer goods and shipping them
to Chinese consumers.



It is not all about low value merchandise. To give you just one example:
A guy like me wants to build some electronics for his bicycles and then
find out "Oh rats, I am out of those buck switcher ICs". The guy is not
in a hurry because it's just hobby stuff. He looks at a domestic source
and finds out that the $0.50 parts are available but there will be hefty
shipping fees. Then he fires up EBay, Alibaba or whatever and .. voila
.. the same regulator ICs for roughly the same $0.50 but .. free
shipping. Then he needs a new light. $20. Plus another $12.95 shipping.
WHAT?! Goes on EBay or Amazon - finds Chinese vendor - $20 and free
shipping - ka-ching.

A few days ago while painting I realized that I need brushes that I can
cut and add an angle bracket to but where the tip is short. Not
available locally, web dealers wanted too much in shipping. Found them
in Hong Kong for less than $1.50 a pop and free shipping. So I ordered
- ka-ching. This is not good for domestic painting suppliers.

Multiply this by a gazillion cases and we have a problem.


Some time ago I did look into shipping from China, the port of
Shanghai to San Diego, and shipping for small volume goods is
extremely cheap as there are literally thousands of shipping agents
who specialize in "packing containers" which reduces the shipping
costs by a substantial amount. When I checked it was as low as $3/cu.
mtr. How many paint brushes, or whatevers, can you squeeze into 1
cubic metre?

As for paint brushes at $1.50 a pop, I can buy smallish paint, 1-1/2"
- 2" brushes here in a retail shop for less then US$1.50 so my guess
is that wholesale the cost is less than a dollar and shipping cost to
the U.S. is pennies.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #17  
Old September 23rd 17, 02:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,169
Default Buying and Selling

On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 4:20:09 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-22 14:24, sms wrote:
On 9/22/2017 12:36 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote:
On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote:

On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote:

snip

Or the brake pads from China, $2/pair and free ship. As I have always
said the postage fees are grossly lopsided between Asia and the US and
that is one of the core reasosn for our trade deficit. Except that most
politicians (except manybe one ...) do not understand that.

It's an international reciprocal postal treaty that no one worried about
when it was mainly U.S. residents of Chinese descent sending packages to
relatives in China.


More than a decade ago tyat has changed, big time. How long does it
take for politicians to turn on their brains? Or for some of them, do
they even have one?


A long time when it's a treaty with hundreds of countries that's been in
effect since 1874.


Our elected leaders need to investigate deeper than that. For example,
when a country massively subsidizes its postal system to undercut sales
channels of another country that is in effect the same as dumping and
there are international laws against that.


The Universal Postal Union established that each country should retain
all money it has collected for international postage. In 1874, or even
1974, you did not have Chinese companies mailing low-value consumer
goods to other countries.


Now we do and if anti-dumping laws aren't effective against abuse we
need to modify those treaties. Just as is being done with NAFTA right
now, and for good reasons.


Of course other countries could reciprocally abuse it, but there aren't
many companies manufacturing low-value consumer goods and shipping them
to Chinese consumers.



It is not all about low value merchandise. To give you just one example:
A guy like me wants to build some electronics for his bicycles and then
find out "Oh rats, I am out of those buck switcher ICs". The guy is not
in a hurry because it's just hobby stuff. He looks at a domestic source
and finds out that the $0.50 parts are available but there will be hefty
shipping fees. Then he fires up EBay, Alibaba or whatever and .. voila
.. the same regulator ICs for roughly the same $0.50 but .. free
shipping. Then he needs a new light. $20. Plus another $12.95 shipping.
WHAT?! Goes on EBay or Amazon - finds Chinese vendor - $20 and free
shipping - ka-ching.

A few days ago while painting I realized that I need brushes that I can
cut and add an angle bracket to but where the tip is short. Not
available locally, web dealers wanted too much in shipping. Found them
in Hong Kong for less than $1.50 a pop and free shipping. So I ordered
- ka-ching. This is not good for domestic painting suppliers.

Multiply this by a gazillion cases and we have a problem.


All you have to do is go through eBay now and you can find the plastic cable ends sold 10 to a pack for $1.50 being sold from China with free shipping. The wrapping on a package cost more than that.

I have stopped buying parts from China.
  #18  
Old September 23rd 17, 02:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,169
Default Buying and Selling

On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 7:03:35 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 12:36:31 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote:
On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote:

On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote:

snip

Or the brake pads from China, $2/pair and free ship. As I have always
said the postage fees are grossly lopsided between Asia and the US and
that is one of the core reasosn for our trade deficit. Except that most
politicians (except manybe one ...) do not understand that.

It's an international reciprocal postal treaty that no one worried about
when it was mainly U.S. residents of Chinese descent sending packages to
relatives in China.



More than a decade ago tyat has changed, big time. How long does it take
for politicians to turn on their brains? Or for some of them, do they
even have one?


... The origin country gets all the postage and the
destination country gets nothing with the assumption that the volume
will be roughly equal.

The small volume of direct-to-consumer low-value items from China is not
a core reason for the trade deficit.



It is rising, big time. I know people who buy just about anything other
than groceries on EBay. When they say "Oh, it always gets here in three
to five weeks" you know what's going on. Heck, I even had stuff I bought
on Amazon come via "China Post".


... These items would still come into
the U.S. through other channels, at higher prices, were it not so cheap
to do international shipping from China, you'd just have a middleman.



Same reason. The stuff then comes in bulk but the shipping charges are
grossly lower than if a US vendor sent the same items to Asia. It isn't
just China. For example, when we needed name tags for our therapy dogs'
vests (for nursing home visits) we ordered them via Amazon. A small
package arrived from Manila, Philippines. I couldn't believe it
considering that we had paid just a few Dollars. Looked at the postage,
calculated - $0.60. Airmail! It came from a seamstress who appears to
specialize in cloth name tags. The shipping cost discrepancy alone puts
similar seamstresses in the US out of business.


Given that the cost of living, and salaries, are as much as five times
cheaper in China than in the U.S. how is changing the mailing costs
going to effect sales?

My wife's older sister and her son, his wife, and the grand kids
visited Thailand about six months ago. The grandson, probably 19 years
old, told me that he worked part time at "the dollar store" unloading
trucks for $10 an hour. The current minimum salary in Thailand is 300
baht, about $9 a day. At today's exchange rate the U.S. salary, for
coolie labour, is ~9 times the Thai salary.


John, are you telling us that wrapping paper, cardboard boxes, packing plastic bubble wrap and plastic tape are so cheap in Thailand or China that they can wrap and send small parts worth a couple of bucks to the US with free shipping and make a profit?
  #19  
Old September 23rd 17, 03:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,442
Default Buying and Selling

On 2017-09-23 06:49, wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 4:20:09 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-22 14:24, sms wrote:


[...]

Of course other countries could reciprocally abuse it, but there aren't
many companies manufacturing low-value consumer goods and shipping them
to Chinese consumers.



It is not all about low value merchandise. To give you just one example:
A guy like me wants to build some electronics for his bicycles and then
find out "Oh rats, I am out of those buck switcher ICs". The guy is not
in a hurry because it's just hobby stuff. He looks at a domestic source
and finds out that the $0.50 parts are available but there will be hefty
shipping fees. Then he fires up EBay, Alibaba or whatever and .. voila
.. the same regulator ICs for roughly the same $0.50 but .. free
shipping. Then he needs a new light. $20. Plus another $12.95 shipping.
WHAT?! Goes on EBay or Amazon - finds Chinese vendor - $20 and free
shipping - ka-ching.

A few days ago while painting I realized that I need brushes that I can
cut and add an angle bracket to but where the tip is short. Not
available locally, web dealers wanted too much in shipping. Found them
in Hong Kong for less than $1.50 a pop and free shipping. So I ordered
- ka-ching. This is not good for domestic painting suppliers.

Multiply this by a gazillion cases and we have a problem.


All you have to do is go through eBay now and you can find the plastic cable ends sold 10 to a pack for $1.50 being sold from China with free shipping. The wrapping on a package cost more than that.

I have stopped buying parts from China.


Why? When you go to the local store and buy for 5x the price you get ...
a part from China. Just heavily marked up along the distribution chain.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #20  
Old September 23rd 17, 04:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,442
Default Buying and Selling

On 2017-09-22 19:39, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 16:20:17 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-22 14:24, sms wrote:
On 9/22/2017 12:36 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote:
On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote:

On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote:

snip

Or the brake pads from China, $2/pair and free ship. As I have always
said the postage fees are grossly lopsided between Asia and the US and
that is one of the core reasosn for our trade deficit. Except that most
politicians (except manybe one ...) do not understand that.

It's an international reciprocal postal treaty that no one worried about
when it was mainly U.S. residents of Chinese descent sending packages to
relatives in China.


More than a decade ago tyat has changed, big time. How long does it
take for politicians to turn on their brains? Or for some of them, do
they even have one?

A long time when it's a treaty with hundreds of countries that's been in
effect since 1874.


Our elected leaders need to investigate deeper than that. For example,
when a country massively subsidizes its postal system to undercut sales
channels of another country that is in effect the same as dumping and
there are international laws against that.


But does China subsidize the mailing costs there?



I believe so. The stuff is handed to China Post in a Chinese city and
then directly addressed to me, with custosm label and all. Not bundled.
Sometimes it even comes airmail and is here in two days. For less than a
buck.


... As an example.
Mailing a letter in Thailand is 2 baht, about US$0.06, I read that the
same item in the U.S. costs more then eight times more expensive.


That's what I am saying. Low shipping charges (and I mean international)
also go for other Asian countries. I brought the Philippine example.


"Dumping", by the way is selling a product for less then the cost of
the item



That would be the case if the Chinese government subsidizes mailing
rates. Then they would provide a service for less that the real cost of
the service. Such subsidies can take many forms. One would be to absorb
the cost of pensions and other benefits that would normally have to be
covered by revenue from the service rendered.



The Universal Postal Union established that each country should retain
all money it has collected for international postage. In 1874, or even
1974, you did not have Chinese companies mailing low-value consumer
goods to other countries.


Now we do and if anti-dumping laws aren't effective against abuse we
need to modify those treaties. Just as is being done with NAFTA right
now, and for good reasons.


Of course other countries could reciprocally abuse it, but there aren't
many companies manufacturing low-value consumer goods and shipping them
to Chinese consumers.



It is not all about low value merchandise. To give you just one example:
A guy like me wants to build some electronics for his bicycles and then
find out "Oh rats, I am out of those buck switcher ICs". The guy is not
in a hurry because it's just hobby stuff. He looks at a domestic source
and finds out that the $0.50 parts are available but there will be hefty
shipping fees. Then he fires up EBay, Alibaba or whatever and .. voila
.. the same regulator ICs for roughly the same $0.50 but .. free
shipping. Then he needs a new light. $20. Plus another $12.95 shipping.
WHAT?! Goes on EBay or Amazon - finds Chinese vendor - $20 and free
shipping - ka-ching.

A few days ago while painting I realized that I need brushes that I can
cut and add an angle bracket to but where the tip is short. Not
available locally, web dealers wanted too much in shipping. Found them
in Hong Kong for less than $1.50 a pop and free shipping. So I ordered
- ka-ching. This is not good for domestic painting suppliers.

Multiply this by a gazillion cases and we have a problem.


Some time ago I did look into shipping from China, the port of
Shanghai to San Diego, and shipping for small volume goods is
extremely cheap as there are literally thousands of shipping agents
who specialize in "packing containers" which reduces the shipping
costs by a substantial amount. When I checked it was as low as $3/cu.
mtr. How many paint brushes, or whatevers, can you squeeze into 1
cubic metre?


Doesn't work that way. They arrive in the US in individually addressed
pouches, with China Post delivery confirmation.


As for paint brushes at $1.50 a pop, I can buy smallish paint, 1-1/2"
- 2" brushes here in a retail shop for less then US$1.50 so my guess
is that wholesale the cost is less than a dollar and shipping cost to
the U.S. is pennies.



There, but not here. I am about to go buy more paint. I'll take a look
at what brushes cost at the Sherwin-Williams store but I am sure it'll
be several times higher even though I only go there when the have a
30/40% discount event. Regular price for one (1!) gallon of their top
quality exterior paint is around a whopping $75 plus tax.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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