A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Build it and they won't come



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 21st 17, 02:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,281
Default Build it and they won't come

Build it and they will come? Sorry, no.

Here's a new article dispelling the myth that segregated facilities
generate tremendous bike mode share.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...ped-stevenage?

Unless motoring is actively dissuaded, almost all people who have cars
will drive cars.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #2  
Old September 21st 17, 03:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 977
Default Build it and they won't come

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:32:50 +0700, John B.
wrote:

One might speculate on how many of the posters here, who are gainfully
employed, do not own a car, do not use public transportation, and rely
solely on a bicycle for transportation?


I'm giving serious thought to joining the "drive someplace to ride a
bike" crowd.

Driving my own vehicle a long distance on a straight road is right out
because of the rotator cuff -- oh, rats, I rode right by the KABS
office *twice* today, and didn't think of stopping in to ask whether I
could take my bike with me on the "bus".

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

  #3  
Old September 21st 17, 03:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,380
Default Build it and they won't come

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 21:47:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Build it and they will come? Sorry, no.

Here's a new article dispelling the myth that segregated facilities
generate tremendous bike mode share.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...ped-stevenage?

Unless motoring is actively dissuaded, almost all people who have cars
will drive cars.


One might speculate on how many of the posters here, who are gainfully
employed, do not own a car, do not use public transportation, and rely
solely on a bicycle for transportation?
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #4  
Old September 21st 17, 04:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,681
Default Build it and they won't come

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 21:47:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Build it and they will come? Sorry, no.

Here's a new article dispelling the myth that segregated facilities
generate tremendous bike mode share.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...ped-stevenage?

Unless motoring is actively dissuaded, almost all people who have
cars will drive cars.


I remember seeing period BBC footage about this, describing the
innovations in place at the time. Now, maybe it's what you're used to;
I grew up in a very bikeable suburb of Chicago and all us kids just got
around on bikes. So I looked at infrastructure like this and was
puzzled as to why.

Apparently I wasn't alone.

In the Minneapolis-St Paul area we have been building out both
on-street and separated bike facilities. While I find much of the
design of the on-street facilities to be objectionable and even
downright stupid, there has been a noticeable increase in bike riding.
Most of them are young uns and are not wearing the pseudo-pro clown
suits (I'm still wearing mine, although I've reached an age and a body
composition where that's probably ill-advised). The separated
facilities- which are pretty extensive- get a whole lot of use; the
on-street facilities seem to get a lot of use too although not quite as
much.

But this doesn't seem to work everywhere. Denmark made it work by
taxing cars at an astonishing rate- owning a car is an economic
hardship for many if not most Danes due to the tax structure- and
pairing that with extensive on-street bike facilities. There would be
no way to accomplish something like that in the US, where owning a car
and having cheap fuel is effectively part of the Bill of Rights.
  #5  
Old September 21st 17, 05:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,681
Default Build it and they won't come

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:32:50 +0700, John B wrote:

One might speculate on how many of the posters here, who are
gainfully employed, do not own a car, do not use public
transportation, and rely solely on a bicycle for transportation?


LOL. My two person household owns three cars, eight bikes. My wife
walks to work practically every day (3 miles each way) and takes the
bus if she doesn't walk. She probably drives to work less than 5 times
a year and that is for a specific reason like having to leave from work
to do something for which the bus, riding or walking is impractical. I
ride to work or walk to work about 25% of the time (I work in two
locations a day- the closest are less than a mile from home and the
farthest are 30 miles from home; several are within feasible riding
distance from home and from each other so I *could* ride to work more
than I do).
  #6  
Old September 21st 17, 05:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,643
Default Build it and they won't come

On 21/09/17 11:47, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Build it and they will come? Sorry, no.

Here's a new article dispelling the myth that segregated facilities
generate tremendous bike mode share.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...ped-stevenage?


Unless motoring is actively dissuaded, almost all people who have cars
will drive cars.



This is a hot topic in Australia at the moment. The largest
recreational bicycling organisation (Bicycle Network), is conducting a
review of their helmet policy which currently is in support of mandatory
helmet laws.

The helmet law supporting researchers (Jake Olivier, Raphael Grzebieta,
Soufiane Boufous, Rebecca Ivers, Royal Australian College of Surgeons,
etc.), are all trying to "move on" from discussing helmet laws, spouting
the need for protected biking infrastructure. They know the health
benefits of cycling, but reject the evidence that the helmet law stops
many people from cycling. They think that by building infrastructure
that somehow cycling will blossom regardless.

Fools.

--
JS
  #7  
Old September 21st 17, 07:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,380
Default Build it and they won't come

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 22:57:09 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 21:47:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Build it and they will come? Sorry, no.

Here's a new article dispelling the myth that segregated facilities
generate tremendous bike mode share.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...ped-stevenage?

Unless motoring is actively dissuaded, almost all people who have
cars will drive cars.


I remember seeing period BBC footage about this, describing the
innovations in place at the time. Now, maybe it's what you're used to;
I grew up in a very bikeable suburb of Chicago and all us kids just got
around on bikes. So I looked at infrastructure like this and was
puzzled as to why.

Apparently I wasn't alone.

In the Minneapolis-St Paul area we have been building out both
on-street and separated bike facilities. While I find much of the
design of the on-street facilities to be objectionable and even
downright stupid, there has been a noticeable increase in bike riding.
Most of them are young uns and are not wearing the pseudo-pro clown
suits (I'm still wearing mine, although I've reached an age and a body
composition where that's probably ill-advised). The separated
facilities- which are pretty extensive- get a whole lot of use; the
on-street facilities seem to get a lot of use too although not quite as
much.

But this doesn't seem to work everywhere. Denmark made it work by
taxing cars at an astonishing rate- owning a car is an economic
hardship for many if not most Danes due to the tax structure- and
pairing that with extensive on-street bike facilities. There would be
no way to accomplish something like that in the US, where owning a car
and having cheap fuel is effectively part of the Bill of Rights.


Singapore tried the "tax it out of existence" scheme years ago and it
did work for a while but as the economy grew so did auto sales. Today
a new Toyota Corolla Altis 1.6 Standard will cost you, including the
first 6 months road tax, US$78,509, and traffic is a major problem.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #8  
Old September 21st 17, 08:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,380
Default Build it and they won't come

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 14:27:18 +1000, James
wrote:

On 21/09/17 11:47, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Build it and they will come? Sorry, no.

Here's a new article dispelling the myth that segregated facilities
generate tremendous bike mode share.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...ped-stevenage?


Unless motoring is actively dissuaded, almost all people who have cars
will drive cars.



This is a hot topic in Australia at the moment. The largest
recreational bicycling organisation (Bicycle Network), is conducting a
review of their helmet policy which currently is in support of mandatory
helmet laws.

The helmet law supporting researchers (Jake Olivier, Raphael Grzebieta,
Soufiane Boufous, Rebecca Ivers, Royal Australian College of Surgeons,
etc.), are all trying to "move on" from discussing helmet laws, spouting
the need for protected biking infrastructure. They know the health
benefits of cycling, but reject the evidence that the helmet law stops
many people from cycling. They think that by building infrastructure
that somehow cycling will blossom regardless.

Fools.


(big smile) When we were working at the Freeport copper mine we staged
through Darwin and a bloke I worked with had to spend a week in Darwin
as the crew change airplane broke or something. Anyway he rented a
mini moke and met a Sheila (in a pub I guess) and the next day they
are motoring around Darwin (pre hurricane) and he sees a sign Alice
Springs - and Says "Hey! Want to go to Alice Springs" and the Sheila
says O.K. and off they go. An hour later he hasn't seen anything but
bush and says "how far is this Alice Springs?". They turn around and
go back to Darwin :-)

Now... if there had only been a bike path...

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #9  
Old September 21st 17, 03:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,183
Default Build it and they won't come

On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 6:47:30 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Build it and they will come? Sorry, no.

Here's a new article dispelling the myth that segregated facilities
generate tremendous bike mode share.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...ped-stevenage?

Unless motoring is actively dissuaded, almost all people who have cars
will drive cars.


That's hardly an example now is it? It's ALWAYS raining in England and people will always opt for comfort over convenience. I will only on very seldom occasions go to San Francisco by car because it's such a pain in the ass. But if it's raining there's no way I'm riding a bike.
  #10  
Old September 21st 17, 04:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,681
Default Build it and they won't come

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:59:29 +0700, John B wrote:
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 22:57:09 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

But this doesn't seem to work everywhere. Denmark made it work by
taxing cars at an astonishing rate- owning a car is an economic
hardship for many if not most Danes due to the tax structure- and
pairing that with extensive on-street bike facilities. There would be
no way to accomplish something like that in the US, where owning a car
and having cheap fuel is effectively part of the Bill of Rights.


Singapore tried the "tax it out of existence" scheme years ago and it
did work for a while but as the economy grew so did auto sales. Today
a new Toyota Corolla Altis 1.6 Standard will cost you, including the
first 6 months road tax, US$78,509, and traffic is a major problem. --


Holy crap! That's what my house cost in 1993.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can Women Build Big Muscles? Why Women Cant Build Big Muscles Easily [email protected] UK 0 February 16th 08 09:41 PM
Anyone looking to build a bc? Free hazard hub with a Stockton build! Evan Byrne Unicycling 5 September 14th 06 09:59 AM
Anyone looking to build a bc? Free hazard hub with a Stockton build! Evan Byrne Unicycling 0 August 25th 06 11:05 PM
Disc Wheel Build Build Suggestions osobailo Techniques 2 October 5th 04 01:55 PM
? - To build or not to build -- a bike - ? Andrew Short Techniques 16 August 4th 03 04:12 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2017 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.