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  #111  
Old October 12th 17, 10:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
(PeteCresswell)
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Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

Per John B.:

I don't know whether you remember Uncle Tom McCahill's articles in
Mechanics Illustrated but he wrote an article about speed on trips. He
drove a car coast to coast and return. One way he drove as fast as
possible and on the return he drove at the legal posted speed. The
difference was measured in hours.


I get to do something like this when I carry my 20' surfski down to the
Jersey shore on my roof racks.

It's so long that I worry about windage, so I keep to the speed limit:
65.

Normally, I make the drive at traffic speed - which is 72-73 in the
right lane and 75+ in the left lane.

Time diffs I have observed have all bee less than five minutes for an
80+ mile run.


In a similar vein, I drove down to Florida with my college roommate one
spring break - in his car.

He was driving *really* fast - as in 90+ mph....

We would pass these big 18-wheelers with the sleeping cabs doing 55 mph.

But at the next gas stop, we'd be standing there filling up the tank and
see same those same rigs just chugging on by...
--
Pete Cresswell
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  #112  
Old October 13th 17, 01:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 09:09:32 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:37:08 +0100, Steffo
wrote:

I read an interesting article that sooner or later we will not only use
driveless cars as means of transportation, but also 70% of people will
prefer to live in driveless homes http://tinyurl.com/yangl6pa rather
than buy expensive condos/houses.


Yep. If it moves, is road legal, and can be computerized, it can be
automated to drive itself. Just keep the mobile home moving so that
it never needs to find a parking space. Progress blunders onward.

Just one problem. The road infrastructure that the US built during
the 1930's depression, and again during the cold war, is falling
apart. Roads are designed to last about 25 years and bridges about 50
years. The better built freeways, maybe also 50 years. The whole
concept of driverless cars assumes the existence and maintenance of
smooth, clean, pot hole free, and safe highways. By the time
driverless cars are perfected and the Luddites have been exterminated,
the cost of replacing and repairing the highways will probably reach
the crisis point. The car of the future might just be a 4x4 with an
articulated suspension, designed to make it's way over the rubble that
was once our freeway and highway system.


And given the (would one say "normal"?) population growth in the U.S.
the roads will be long parking lots :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #113  
Old October 13th 17, 02:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

13 hours is abt 75...not counting gas stops

Cruise at 100+

Skip Ohio ?
  #114  
Old October 13th 17, 03:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 5:26:13 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 09:09:32 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:37:08 +0100, Steffo
wrote:

I read an interesting article that sooner or later we will not only use
driveless cars as means of transportation, but also 70% of people will
prefer to live in driveless homes http://tinyurl.com/yangl6pa rather
than buy expensive condos/houses.


Yep. If it moves, is road legal, and can be computerized, it can be
automated to drive itself. Just keep the mobile home moving so that
it never needs to find a parking space. Progress blunders onward.

Just one problem. The road infrastructure that the US built during
the 1930's depression, and again during the cold war, is falling
apart. Roads are designed to last about 25 years and bridges about 50
years. The better built freeways, maybe also 50 years. The whole
concept of driverless cars assumes the existence and maintenance of
smooth, clean, pot hole free, and safe highways. By the time
driverless cars are perfected and the Luddites have been exterminated,
the cost of replacing and repairing the highways will probably reach
the crisis point. The car of the future might just be a 4x4 with an
articulated suspension, designed to make it's way over the rubble that
was once our freeway and highway system.


And given the (would one say "normal"?) population growth in the U.S.
the roads will be long parking lots :-)


And apart from the number of cars, the number of delivery trucks is skyrocketing because of e-commerce. https://www.citylab.com/transportati...e-boom/523671/ Truck traffic on the interstates is staggering. I don't know if it is due to the the collapse of the railroads, population increase, e-commerce or all of the above. There are way too many trucks on the highways. Cargo needs to be moved more efficiently.

I had to run a car errand yesterday -- about two miles across downtown to an area of mixed business and high density housing. I could have ridden my bike the same distance five times in the time it took me to get there in a car. Incroyable. It is long past the time to move -- but I don't know where..

-- Jay Beattie.
  #115  
Old October 13th 17, 03:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,346
Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 11:08:04 AM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 9:09:36 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:37:08 +0100, Steffo
wrote:

I read an interesting article that sooner or later we will not only use
driveless cars as means of transportation, but also 70% of people will
prefer to live in driveless homes http://tinyurl.com/yangl6pa rather
than buy expensive condos/houses.


Yep. If it moves, is road legal, and can be computerized, it can be
automated to drive itself. Just keep the mobile home moving so that
it never needs to find a parking space. Progress blunders onward.

Just one problem. The road infrastructure that the US built during
the 1930's depression, and again during the cold war, is falling
apart. Roads are designed to last about 25 years and bridges about 50
years. The better built freeways, maybe also 50 years.


? These things change all the time
Caltrans is out there every day widening said freeways and so on


Oddly enough, while the freeway systems are being expanded the city road systems are being reduced to reduce wear and dangerous speeding. This all instead of enforcing driving laws.
  #116  
Old October 13th 17, 04:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,346
Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 7:06:17 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 5:26:13 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 09:09:32 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:37:08 +0100, Steffo
wrote:

I read an interesting article that sooner or later we will not only use
driveless cars as means of transportation, but also 70% of people will
prefer to live in driveless homes http://tinyurl.com/yangl6pa rather
than buy expensive condos/houses.

Yep. If it moves, is road legal, and can be computerized, it can be
automated to drive itself. Just keep the mobile home moving so that
it never needs to find a parking space. Progress blunders onward.

Just one problem. The road infrastructure that the US built during
the 1930's depression, and again during the cold war, is falling
apart. Roads are designed to last about 25 years and bridges about 50
years. The better built freeways, maybe also 50 years. The whole
concept of driverless cars assumes the existence and maintenance of
smooth, clean, pot hole free, and safe highways. By the time
driverless cars are perfected and the Luddites have been exterminated,
the cost of replacing and repairing the highways will probably reach
the crisis point. The car of the future might just be a 4x4 with an
articulated suspension, designed to make it's way over the rubble that
was once our freeway and highway system.


And given the (would one say "normal"?) population growth in the U.S.
the roads will be long parking lots :-)


And apart from the number of cars, the number of delivery trucks is skyrocketing because of e-commerce. https://www.citylab.com/transportati...e-boom/523671/ Truck traffic on the interstates is staggering. I don't know if it is due to the the collapse of the railroads, population increase, e-commerce or all of the above. There are way too many trucks on the highways. Cargo needs to be moved more efficiently.

I had to run a car errand yesterday -- about two miles across downtown to an area of mixed business and high density housing. I could have ridden my bike the same distance five times in the time it took me to get there in a car. Incroyable. It is long past the time to move -- but I don't know where.


I don't know about that Jay - as one that buys a LOT on-line USPS carries and delivers most of it. I think in all of the stuff I've bought to recondition a Pinarello frame and fork only one item came on a UPS - and that was from Germany.
  #117  
Old October 13th 17, 09:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 6,277
Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

idea the auto industry.....mainly overseas auto industry ....would move en mass is amazing and frightening but we all know the latter so ?


goo.gl/ZnhNas


  #118  
Old October 14th 17, 05:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:08:02 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote:

On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 9:09:36 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:37:08 +0100, Steffo
wrote:

I read an interesting article that sooner or later we will not only use
driveless cars as means of transportation, but also 70% of people will
prefer to live in driveless homes http://tinyurl.com/yangl6pa rather
than buy expensive condos/houses.


Yep. If it moves, is road legal, and can be computerized, it can be
automated to drive itself. Just keep the mobile home moving so that
it never needs to find a parking space. Progress blunders onward.

Just one problem. The road infrastructure that the US built during
the 1930's depression, and again during the cold war, is falling
apart. Roads are designed to last about 25 years and bridges about 50
years. The better built freeways, maybe also 50 years.


? These things change all the time


What things change? The lifetime of roads and freeways?
http://www.concocompanies.com/services/acme-trucking/green-building-techniques/concrete-paving/
"A Federal Highway Administration report ("Service Lives of Highway
Pavements," Public Roads, August 1971) gives the average surface
life of concrete roads as 25 years and asphalt as 15 years.
For city pavements, the vast number of 30 to 50-year-old concrete
streets readily attests to their performance beyond the study
figure of 25 years, while most asphalt streets would be hard
pressed to last for 15 years.
Some randome Googling seems to indicate that the numbers haven't
change in the last 45 years from the aformentioned report.

Caltrans is out there every day widening said freeways and so on


I haven't seen much in the way of major projects. Adding lanes has
certainly helped relieve congestion, but it would take a huge amount
of continuous widening to keep up with the increases in traffic.

The whole
concept of driverless cars assumes the existence and maintenance of
smooth, clean, pot hole free, and safe highways.


Says who?


Me. Watch the videos of the first DARPA autonomous car challenge and
tell me if you would consider riding in one of the off road test cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a6GrKqOxeU
5 out of 23 managed to finish. Terrain turned out to be a big
problem, so the next challenge was held in an urban environment on
good quality roads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xibwwNVLgg

They already face a number of similar problems such as lanes,
turns, intersections, and traffic. Why should potholes and surface
smoothness be any different or unsolvable?


It's much easier to predict what a vehicle will do on a flat road,
than which direction it will bounce or fly after hitting a pot hole.

By the time
driverless cars are perfected and the Luddites have been exterminated,
the cost of replacing and repairing the highways will probably reach
the crisis point. The car of the future might just be a 4x4 with an
articulated suspension, designed to make it's way over the rubble that
was once our freeway and highway system.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #119  
Old October 16th 17, 05:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
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Posts: 1,338
Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 9:02:19 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:08:02 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau

On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 9:09:36 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:37:08 +0100, Steffo
wrote:

I read an interesting article that sooner or later we will not only use
driveless cars as means of transportation, but also 70% of people will
prefer to live in driveless homes http://tinyurl.com/yangl6pa rather
than buy expensive condos/houses.

Yep. If it moves, is road legal, and can be computerized, it can be
automated to drive itself. Just keep the mobile home moving so that
it never needs to find a parking space. Progress blunders onward.

Just one problem. The road infrastructure that the US built during
the 1930's depression, and again during the cold war, is falling
apart. Roads are designed to last about 25 years and bridges about 50
years. The better built freeways, maybe also 50 years.


? These things change all the time


What things change? The lifetime of roads and freeways?


No, the roads themselves. Not where you live. But when I came back from coleg 237 was one lane in each direction with a stop sign at 1st street. It is now 12 lanes wide and 880 has gone from being 2 to 12 lanes.
When I go back to visit where I went to skool there is a brand new freeway each time where there was nothing before.
When I drive home I don't even recognize the 405 exit lane - it is now on the left not on the right!! I don't remember ever seeing a left-hand exit lane before that; pretty soon they were in NorCal too.
When I moved here in 1972 they were building 280, and recently built 85.

I would agree that nothing has changed in -your- neighborhood.




  #120  
Old October 16th 17, 06:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,346
Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 9:26:00 AM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 9:02:19 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:08:02 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau

On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 9:09:36 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:37:08 +0100, Steffo
wrote:

I read an interesting article that sooner or later we will not only use
driveless cars as means of transportation, but also 70% of people will
prefer to live in driveless homes http://tinyurl.com/yangl6pa rather
than buy expensive condos/houses.

Yep. If it moves, is road legal, and can be computerized, it can be
automated to drive itself. Just keep the mobile home moving so that
it never needs to find a parking space. Progress blunders onward.

Just one problem. The road infrastructure that the US built during
the 1930's depression, and again during the cold war, is falling
apart. Roads are designed to last about 25 years and bridges about 50
years. The better built freeways, maybe also 50 years.


? These things change all the time


What things change? The lifetime of roads and freeways?


No, the roads themselves. Not where you live. But when I came back from coleg 237 was one lane in each direction with a stop sign at 1st street. It is now 12 lanes wide and 880 has gone from being 2 to 12 lanes.
When I go back to visit where I went to skool there is a brand new freeway each time where there was nothing before.
When I drive home I don't even recognize the 405 exit lane - it is now on the left not on the right!! I don't remember ever seeing a left-hand exit lane before that; pretty soon they were in NorCal too.
When I moved here in 1972 they were building 280, and recently built 85.

I would agree that nothing has changed in -your- neighborhood.


You have to wonder what the hell is going on. 280 was wide open going south from Highway 92 most of the way to Sunnyvale just 5 years ago. That last couple of times I've gone to Palo Alto Medical Center it's taken me almost two hours from San Leandro. I can ride my bike there in an hour and a half.

 




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