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DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 6th 17, 04:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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no haven't heard any noises from slow trajectory electrics.

small cars like Fit and uh the low space coupe are so curious I feel an urge for driving one. Not like going for a Camo Cayenne but ....


where we're headed here is Big Bro will ask us to carry a trashponder ...an appleponder or a goolex...there being then fewer appleponders over the road than on the berm. works gut no ?

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  #12  
Old October 6th 17, 03:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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On Thursday, October 5, 2017 at 8:54:37 PM UTC-7, wrote:
no haven't heard any noises from slow trajectory electrics.

small cars like Fit and uh the low space coupe are so curious I feel an urge for driving one. Not like going for a Camo Cayenne but ....


where we're headed here is Big Bro will ask us to carry a trashponder ...an appleponder or a goolex...there being then fewer appleponders over the road than on the berm. works gut no ?


A week ago I was riding along on a mountain road, I had been watching behind me but was passing the occasional home. I pull out a couple of inches to miss a crack in the pavement and a Transit van JUST missed me by mere inches. He had purposely aimed to pass me with his right mirror just missing me and so when I pulled over my elbow almost hit the side of his van. Mark that there was clear road and sight ahead so that he COULD have cleared me by feet.

There was NO SOUND either of his approach or after he passed. Or at least none that could be heard above my vocal opinion of him. Looking in the rear window he gave a "then get out of my way" sign. Good thing he didn't stop.

I don't believe these are made in electric so there should be laws that ALL vehicles should make sufficient sound to be detected. I know that you can hear a bicycle overtaking you so why not a motor vehicle?
  #13  
Old October 8th 17, 04:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 09:52:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

"Bikes May Have To Talk To Self-Driving Cars For Safety's Sake"
http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/07/24/537746346/bikes-may-have-to-talk-to-self-driving-cars-for-safetys-sake
I guess the next step is a semi-self-driving-bicycle that detects road
and vehicle hazards and takes over control of the bicycle if it
detects something dangerous or unsafe.

Hint:
- Would you fly in an autonomous airplane?
- Would you ride in a self driving bus or train?
- How do you feel in a driverless elevator?
- Would you really want to do the same in an automobile or bicycle?


I can see that I'm not making my point, so I'll try again.

It's highly likely that we're going to have driverless cars inflicted
upon the American public either the choice of government edict. My
guess(tm) is that such driverless cars will need to communicate with
each other and with some manner of central traffic authority via some
kind of mesh network. It's this network that controls which roadway
the vehicles will travel, distributes the traffic to prevent
bottlenecks, and hopefully helps prevent accidents. If bicycles are
going to continue riding on the same roads, they will need to check
into the same mesh network that will be used by cars, buses, trucks,
and such in order to be deemed safe.

Are you ready for the semi-self-driving-bicycle of the future? If
not, you might want to practice your hands free bicycle riding.

(Sorry for the delayed retort. I've been rather busy lately).
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #14  
Old October 8th 17, 06:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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On Sat, 07 Oct 2017 20:08:08 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 09:52:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

"Bikes May Have To Talk To Self-Driving Cars For Safety's Sake"
http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/07/24/537746346/bikes-may-have-to-talk-to-self-driving-cars-for-safetys-sake
I guess the next step is a semi-self-driving-bicycle that detects road
and vehicle hazards and takes over control of the bicycle if it
detects something dangerous or unsafe.

Hint:
- Would you fly in an autonomous airplane?
- Would you ride in a self driving bus or train?
- How do you feel in a driverless elevator?
- Would you really want to do the same in an automobile or bicycle?


I can see that I'm not making my point, so I'll try again.

It's highly likely that we're going to have driverless cars inflicted
upon the American public either the choice of government edict. My
guess(tm) is that such driverless cars will need to communicate with
each other and with some manner of central traffic authority via some
kind of mesh network. It's this network that controls which roadway
the vehicles will travel, distributes the traffic to prevent
bottlenecks, and hopefully helps prevent accidents. If bicycles are
going to continue riding on the same roads, they will need to check
into the same mesh network that will be used by cars, buses, trucks,
and such in order to be deemed safe.


Are they actually made to communicate with each other? I see some
tests being carried out (in Singapore) and in one case a driverless
car drove into a lorry. Or maybe they only talk with each other :-)

Are you ready for the semi-self-driving-bicycle of the future? If
not, you might want to practice your hands free bicycle riding.

(Sorry for the delayed retort. I've been rather busy lately).


--
Cheers,

John B.

  #15  
Old October 8th 17, 11:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Yes but the personal transponder creates a net for .50 where a complete NET for DLC is millions

A system approach to DLC is more sci fi.

BUT ! a commuting corridor system ? Need to check goo scolar


We are concerned abt your health when you're absent.
  #16  
Old October 8th 17, 11:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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https://scholar.google.com/scholar?h...analysis&btnG=

This exists now ...4 cars on green...go no go ramp entry

Or instead of a jam at Ave Z, a system would acquire Z vehicles n process dribbling Z onto exit with TSD ...would that. Mean total involvement between all vehicles ? Is that possible ?

where's the economic gain, social justice, common welfare ?
  #17  
Old October 8th 17, 02:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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On Saturday, October 7, 2017 at 8:08:00 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

It's highly likely that we're going to have driverless cars inflicted
upon the American public either the choice of government edict. My
guess(tm) is that such driverless cars will need to communicate with
each other and with some manner of central traffic authority via some
kind of mesh network. It's this network that controls which roadway
the vehicles will travel, distributes the traffic to prevent
bottlenecks, and hopefully helps prevent accidents. If bicycles are
going to continue riding on the same roads, they will need to check
into the same mesh network that will be used by cars, buses, trucks,
and such in order to be deemed safe.

Are you ready for the semi-self-driving-bicycle of the future? If
not, you might want to practice your hands free bicycle riding.


Jeff, I have no doubt that we will see self-driving cars on the road. Tesla already has a self driving feature.

But because of the number of older cars on the road they will not operate via intercommunications but the same way you and I drive - by sensing everything around us.

Will the government demand that everyone install a detector in their car so that self-driving cars can detect ahead of time that there is an asshole afloat in the sea of traffic? Do you really thing that hot-rodders are about to accept that? And from what I've seen of heavy traffic the worst drivers are those that appear to have the most money.

So it's more likely that a bicyclist will be in far less danger from self driving cars that work properly that from driven cars. But note the "work properly" component. I do not think that will occur.
  #18  
Old October 8th 17, 02:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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On Saturday, October 7, 2017 at 10:02:04 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Are they actually made to communicate with each other? I see some
tests being carried out (in Singapore) and in one case a driverless
car drove into a lorry. Or maybe they only talk with each other :-)


When they have a strong connection.
  #19  
Old October 8th 17, 05:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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On Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:01:58 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Are they actually made to communicate with each other? I see some
tests being carried out (in Singapore) and in one case a driverless
car drove into a lorry. Or maybe they only talk with each other :-)


No, or rather not yet. The "autonomous vehicle", which implies that
all the intelligence is on-board, is being deprecated in favor of
"driverless vehicle". I'm not sure of the status of "self-driving
car" and "robo-car". When the carnage of totally autonomous vehicles
is over, the obvious solution is to have the vehicle talk to other
vehicles, potential hazards, traffic control devices, and perhaps
bicycles. My guess(tm) is this will manifest itself in the form of an
ad-hoc wireless network between all the autonomous vehicles and
similar devices within range. In my never humble opinion, it's the
only effective way to do traffic management over wide areas.

The article:
"Bikes May Have To Talk To Self-Driving Cars For Safety's Sake"
http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/07/24/537746346/bikes-may-have-to-talk-to-self-driving-cars-for-safetys-sake
is the first one that I've seen that suggests a bicycle "talk" to an
autonomous vehicle under the banner of safety. Would you want to ride
your bicycle on a roadway full of bumper cars without any way to warn
the cars to keep their distance?
https://www.google.com/search?q=bumper+cars&tbm=isch

Since everyone seems to be avoiding the question, perhaps rephrasing
the question will help: Are you prepared to cede some of your bicycle
autonomy in order to be allowed to ride the highway of the future? Are
you ready for robo-bike?

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #20  
Old October 8th 17, 06:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 06:20:29 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Jeff, I have no doubt that we will see self-driving cars on
the road. Tesla already has a self driving feature.
But because of the number of older cars on the road they
will not operate via intercommunications but the same way
you and I drive - by sensing everything around us.


The current idea of an autonomous car was borrowed from the DARPA
trials of autonomous military vehicles used to carry supplies,
munitions, and such. Someone thought it might be useful for solving
the drunk driving, distracted driving, tailgating, and general
stupidity behind the wheel, for the average driver. So, it's being
sold on the basis of safety which will allegedly save 30,000 lives per
year. That could have been done cheaper and easier by simply hiring
chauffeurs for all the clueless drivers, but that's not how things
work in our technological society. So, the first generation of
driverless vehicles will be totally autonomous, with no connection to
any other autonomous vehicles or road hazards because the
infrastructure currently doesn't exist to do this. I predict that
there will be a sufficiently large number of undesirable incidents,
which will inspire an ad-hoc wireless network scheme to enhance the
system and take the load off the autonomous computer trying to
identify various objects.

Will the government demand that everyone install a detector
in their car so that self-driving cars can detect ahead of
time that there is an asshole afloat in the sea of traffic?


You're getting ahead of me a little, but yes, it will shove it down
our safety conscious throats, exactly like seat belts, crash resistant
bumpers, dashboard padding, air bags, autie-lock brakes, extra tail
lights, and other expensive safety features. As an added bonus, we'll
probably be blessed with a crude flight recorder, which already exists
in some automobiles, to collect data during last few seconds before
impact. In the name of safety, there's no limit to what can be
justified.

Do you really think that hot-rodders are about to accept that?


Of course not. But I'm not talking about hot rod motorists. I'm
talking about bicyclists, although I could lump the e-bike hot rodders
into a similar class. Will cyclists accept computer control over
their speed and direction in order to check into the roadway of the
future?

And from what I've seen of heavy traffic the worst drivers are
those that appear to have the most money.


Maybe. I've always suspected that the new car buyers were those who
had totaled their previous vehicle.

So it's more likely that a bicyclist will be in far less danger
from self driving cars that work properly that from driven cars.
But note the "work properly" component. I do not think that will
occur.


Less danger is not the goal. It's zero danger. With a bicycle
mounted transponder or full blown directional control, the idea is to
make the bicycle equal to any autonomous car and make it part of some
kind of collision avoidance system. Relying on the pattern
recognition software to do this for bicyclists strikes me as a bit
risky.

More later. One cord of firewood just arrive. Time to get some
exercise stacking it.

--
Jeff Liebermann

150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 




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