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DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 8th 17, 06:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 8,923
Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On 10/8/2017 11:42 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:01:58 +0700, John B.
wrote:



When the carnage of totally autonomous vehicles
is over...



Jeff, you are SUCH an optimist.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


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  #22  
Old October 8th 17, 07:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

robo cycle ? no, again too expensive and again a .50 transponder suits an 11 year olds cycle.

the bottom line with cycle are kids n kids costs.

  #23  
Old October 8th 17, 08:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doc O'Leary[_21_]
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Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

For your reference, records indicate that
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

It's highly likely that we're going to have driverless cars inflicted
upon the American public either the choice of government edict. My
guess(tm) is that such driverless cars will need to communicate with
each other and with some manner of central traffic authority via some
kind of mesh network. It's this network that controls which roadway
the vehicles will travel, distributes the traffic to prevent
bottlenecks, and hopefully helps prevent accidents. If bicycles are
going to continue riding on the same roads, they will need to check
into the same mesh network that will be used by cars, buses, trucks,
and such in order to be deemed safe.


That’s quite a leap. The streets are and will continue to be full of
vehicles that *aren’t* going to be part of that sort of network for a
long, long time. Add to that all sorts of other traffic like
pedestrians and pets and things that fall from trucks, downed trees
and rocks and snow drifts, and on and on. If autonomous vehicles
can’t be safe without active communication, they are a danger to
everyone and don’t belong on the road. There’s nothing special about
bikes from that viewpoint.

--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly


  #24  
Old October 8th 17, 09:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 8,923
Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On 10/8/2017 2:46 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
For your reference, records indicate that
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

It's highly likely that we're going to have driverless cars inflicted
upon the American public either the choice of government edict. My
guess(tm) is that such driverless cars will need to communicate with
each other and with some manner of central traffic authority via some
kind of mesh network. It's this network that controls which roadway
the vehicles will travel, distributes the traffic to prevent
bottlenecks, and hopefully helps prevent accidents. If bicycles are
going to continue riding on the same roads, they will need to check
into the same mesh network that will be used by cars, buses, trucks,
and such in order to be deemed safe.


That’s quite a leap. The streets are and will continue to be full of
vehicles that *aren’t* going to be part of that sort of network for a
long, long time. Add to that all sorts of other traffic like
pedestrians and pets and things that fall from trucks, downed trees
and rocks and snow drifts, and on and on. If autonomous vehicles
can’t be safe without active communication, they are a danger to
everyone and don’t belong on the road. There’s nothing special about
bikes from that viewpoint.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1uYrMlhdWE

Maybe it's in the algorithm, maybe it's not.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #25  
Old October 8th 17, 11:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 2,524
Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:33:07 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 10/8/2017 11:42 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:01:58 +0700, John B.
wrote:
When the carnage of totally autonomous vehicles
is over...


Jeff, you are SUCH an optimist.


I prefer realist. Few new technologies have ever been introduced
without sacrificing a few people in order to learn what doesn't work.
Prognostications, predictions, and pontifications:
1. Driverless cars will include optional ejection seats.
2. Someone on Kickstarter will offer a driverless eBike, probably for
pickup and deliver errands.
3. Someone in government will suggest that the only safe way to
operate a driverless car is to have it centrally managed by yet
another inept and expensive state or federal agency.
4. Driving a driverless car will not require a driving license.
5. The Calif Vehicle Code will add a requirement for a MINIMUM speed
for vehicles (including bicycles) that use the safe highway of the
future.
6. Driverless anything will be required to make engine like noises to
warn pedestrians and cyclists of their approach. eBikes are next.
7. There will be a problem with people getting out of their
driverless vehicles, and then watching the driverless vehicle drive
off into the sunset to who knows where.
8. The first successful driverless vehicle with be a large truck
(because replacing the union driver has the highest payback).
9. Delivering a bomb by driverless vehicle will become a problem.
10. The shortest distance through traffic will NOT be where the
driverless car wants to go.

"Smarter Cycling Series: Watch out for laws that demand cyclists get
out of the way of driverless cars"
https://ecf.com/news-and-events/news/smarter-cycling-series-watch-out-laws-demand-cyclists-get-out-way-driverless

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #26  
Old October 9th 17, 12:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 8,923
Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On 10/8/2017 5:03 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:33:07 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 10/8/2017 11:42 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:01:58 +0700, John B.
wrote:
When the carnage of totally autonomous vehicles
is over...


Jeff, you are SUCH an optimist.


I prefer realist. Few new technologies have ever been introduced
without sacrificing a few people in order to learn what doesn't work.
Prognostications, predictions, and pontifications:
1. Driverless cars will include optional ejection seats.
2. Someone on Kickstarter will offer a driverless eBike, probably for
pickup and deliver errands.
3. Someone in government will suggest that the only safe way to
operate a driverless car is to have it centrally managed by yet
another inept and expensive state or federal agency.
4. Driving a driverless car will not require a driving license.
5. The Calif Vehicle Code will add a requirement for a MINIMUM speed
for vehicles (including bicycles) that use the safe highway of the
future.
6. Driverless anything will be required to make engine like noises to
warn pedestrians and cyclists of their approach. eBikes are next.
7. There will be a problem with people getting out of their
driverless vehicles, and then watching the driverless vehicle drive
off into the sunset to who knows where.
8. The first successful driverless vehicle with be a large truck
(because replacing the union driver has the highest payback).
9. Delivering a bomb by driverless vehicle will become a problem.
10. The shortest distance through traffic will NOT be where the
driverless car wants to go.

"Smarter Cycling Series: Watch out for laws that demand cyclists get
out of the way of driverless cars"
https://ecf.com/news-and-events/news/smarter-cycling-series-watch-out-laws-demand-cyclists-get-out-way-driverless


All interesting observations.
What I meant about optimism was, what makes you think the
carnage will slow or stop?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #27  
Old October 9th 17, 03:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 5,260
Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On 10/8/2017 3:46 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
For your reference, records indicate that
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

It's highly likely that we're going to have driverless cars inflicted
upon the American public either the choice of government edict. My
guess(tm) is that such driverless cars will need to communicate with
each other and with some manner of central traffic authority via some
kind of mesh network. It's this network that controls which roadway
the vehicles will travel, distributes the traffic to prevent
bottlenecks, and hopefully helps prevent accidents. If bicycles are
going to continue riding on the same roads, they will need to check
into the same mesh network that will be used by cars, buses, trucks,
and such in order to be deemed safe.


That’s quite a leap. The streets are and will continue to be full of
vehicles that *aren’t* going to be part of that sort of network for a
long, long time.


Agreed. Yesterday, a friend and I attended an event somewhere east of
his home and west of mine. He arrived in his 1930 Model A. I arrived on
my 1972 motorcycle.

Also: We spent today walking and biking around a major city. That meant
frequently negotiating with motorists as we walked across streets using
crosswalks. As has been pointed out many times, the per-mile fatality
rate for pedestrians is triple that of bicyclists.

So: Transponders in shoes?


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #28  
Old October 9th 17, 04:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,169
Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 9:42:27 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:01:58 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Are they actually made to communicate with each other? I see some
tests being carried out (in Singapore) and in one case a driverless
car drove into a lorry. Or maybe they only talk with each other :-)


No, or rather not yet. The "autonomous vehicle", which implies that
all the intelligence is on-board, is being deprecated in favor of
"driverless vehicle". I'm not sure of the status of "self-driving
car" and "robo-car". When the carnage of totally autonomous vehicles
is over, the obvious solution is to have the vehicle talk to other
vehicles, potential hazards, traffic control devices, and perhaps
bicycles. My guess(tm) is this will manifest itself in the form of an
ad-hoc wireless network between all the autonomous vehicles and
similar devices within range. In my never humble opinion, it's the
only effective way to do traffic management over wide areas.

The article:
"Bikes May Have To Talk To Self-Driving Cars For Safety's Sake"
http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/07/24/537746346/bikes-may-have-to-talk-to-self-driving-cars-for-safetys-sake
is the first one that I've seen that suggests a bicycle "talk" to an
autonomous vehicle under the banner of safety. Would you want to ride
your bicycle on a roadway full of bumper cars without any way to warn
the cars to keep their distance?
https://www.google.com/search?q=bumper+cars&tbm=isch

Since everyone seems to be avoiding the question, perhaps rephrasing
the question will help: Are you prepared to cede some of your bicycle
autonomy in order to be allowed to ride the highway of the future? Are
you ready for robo-bike?


Not only is it not over but it has hardly begun. If you think for one second that young men are going to turn their cars over to an artificial intelligence you're going to have to think a little harder on that Jeff.
  #29  
Old October 9th 17, 04:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 3,169
Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 11:59:21 AM UTC-7, wrote:
robo cycle ? no, again too expensive and again a .50 transponder suits an 11 year olds cycle.

the bottom line with cycle are kids n kids costs.


Well, I don't think you have a tight grasp on transponders yet but I do agree with your general ideas.
  #30  
Old October 9th 17, 04:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 3,169
Default DRIVERLESS ELECTRIC CARS

On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 12:46:50 PM UTC-7, Doc O'Leary wrote:
For your reference, records indicate that
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

It's highly likely that we're going to have driverless cars inflicted
upon the American public either the choice of government edict. My
guess(tm) is that such driverless cars will need to communicate with
each other and with some manner of central traffic authority via some
kind of mesh network. It's this network that controls which roadway
the vehicles will travel, distributes the traffic to prevent
bottlenecks, and hopefully helps prevent accidents. If bicycles are
going to continue riding on the same roads, they will need to check
into the same mesh network that will be used by cars, buses, trucks,
and such in order to be deemed safe.


That’s quite a leap. The streets are and will continue to be full of
vehicles that *aren’t* going to be part of that sort of network for a
long, long time. Add to that all sorts of other traffic like
pedestrians and pets and things that fall from trucks, downed trees
and rocks and snow drifts, and on and on. If autonomous vehicles
can’t be safe without active communication, they are a danger to
everyone and don’t belong on the road. There’s nothing special about
bikes from that viewpoint.


I came down a street this morning at about 30 mph dodging pot holes the entire distance. Some 5 miles. No auto-car could do that.
 




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