Inappropriate LBS Service

In article ,
Michael Warner wrote:

On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:15:07 -0500, John Everett wrote:

Guily as charged. A couple of weeks ago I was in Colorado and drove
into Idaho Springs to get a haircut. The barber shop was closed for
lunch, but was bext door to a bike shop. So I went in and wasted Jerry
Seigel's time for a half-hour or forty-five minutes or so talking
wheel-building. I didn't fondle anything but I did ask a bunch of
questions and we both talked a bit about our racing. Alas I didn't buy
anything.

Sorry, you don't qualify unless you do it there at least once a week :-)

Er...

But I do sometimes buy stuff...

And I don't like to think of myself as middle-aged,

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 21:12:20 -0700, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

I think you got me all wrong. If you can understand why someone wants a
particular bike and how they'd like to ride, your odds increase not of just
selling them an appropriate bike, but they're also likely to spend quite a
bit more money as well. "Temple massages and chakra therapy?" You don't know
me very well (which makes sense, unless you're one of our customers). I'm
anything but a touchy-feely kind of guy. My point, which apparently was
lost, was that a great many sales go awry because the salesperson is more
interested in the type of riding he or she does than what might be of
interest to the customer. Basically it comes down to listening more and
talking less.

Which makes you far more touchy-feely, at least in a psychological sense,
than the average bike shop staffer :-)

IME there's usually one valuable person in any bike shop, and the rest are
bored racers only interested in helping customers who ride the same
kind of bikes at the same kind of level that they do (i.e. they come in MTB
and road flavours). I suppose they're cheap and discourage shoplifting, but
that's about it.

Once I find the VP, I only visit during the hours they work there.

On Oct 5, 10:12 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
I don't get it. Why wouldn't they let her ride the nicer bikes? That's a
bit
different than the scenario I was laying out. My issue is with someone
who
is convinced that something they've never tried is going to be what they
want, and they're unwilling to take one for a test ride. That's the sort
of
thing that can come back to you. But your girlfriend sounds like she was
not
only fully aware of what she was getting into, but also wanted to
test-ride
the bike. Strange that they'd give her grief.

I'm sure they would have let her see the bike if she had pleaded to do
it. But she didn't feel like pleading, having to testify, explain and
reassure as to her cycling ability or whatever it is that proves she
'deserves' said bicycle. I imagine such episodes happen fairly often
to female cyclists at the LBS.

The problem that many shops & customers have is that each may have a
different dream or vision of what cycling means to them. It's the
salesperson's job to figure out what the customer's dream/vision is, and
possibly expand upon it, but not, repeat not try and sell the customer on
his or her own personal dream. If the two happen to be the same, great.
But
that's typically not the case.

If the person at the shop just doesn't get how you're going to ride the
bike, if they can't relate to you on such a basic level, you need to talk
to
someone else there, or go elsewhere. As your girlfriend did.

I would give up on trying to figure out and facilitate the dreams of
and give temple massages and chakra therapy to your customers. If
they want nice bikes, sell em nice bikes. There are a lot worse things
than someone buying a bike that is 'too nice' for their 'needs' as
they can become inspired by that bike and grow into it in a sense, or
at least sell it to guys like me at a drastically reduced price.

I think you got me all wrong. If you can understand why someone wants a
particular bike and how they'd like to ride, your odds increase not of just
selling them an appropriate bike, but they're also likely to spend quite a
bit more money as well. "Temple massages and chakra therapy?" You don't know
me very well (which makes sense, unless you're one of our customers). I'm
anything but a touchy-feely kind of guy. My point, which apparently was
lost, was that a great many sales go awry because the salesperson is more
interested in the type of riding he or she does than what might be of
interest to the customer. Basically it comes down to listening more and
talking less.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

wrote in message

ps.com...

On Oct 4, 7:07 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:

I don't get it. Why wouldn't they let her ride the nicer bikes? That's a
bit
different than the scenario I was laying out. My issue is with someone
who
is convinced that something they've never tried is going to be what they
want, and they're unwilling to take one for a test ride. That's the sort
of
thing that can come back to you. But your girlfriend sounds like she was
not
only fully aware of what she was getting into, but also wanted to
test-ride
the bike. Strange that they'd give her grief.

I'm sure they would have let her see the bike if she had pleaded to do
it. But she didn't feel like pleading, having to testify, explain and
reassure as to her cycling ability or whatever it is that proves she
'deserves' said bicycle. I imagine such episodes happen fairly often
to female cyclists at the LBS.

The problem that many shops & customers have is that each may have a
different dream or vision of what cycling means to them. It's the
salesperson's job to figure out what the customer's dream/vision is, and
possibly expand upon it, but not, repeat not try and sell the customer on
his or her own personal dream. If the two happen to be the same, great.
But
that's typically not the case.

If the person at the shop just doesn't get how you're going to ride the
bike, if they can't relate to you on such a basic level, you need to talk
to
someone else there, or go elsewhere. As your girlfriend did.

I would give up on trying to figure out and facilitate the dreams of
and give temple massages and chakra therapy to your customers. If
they want nice bikes, sell em nice bikes. There are a lot worse things
than someone buying a bike that is 'too nice' for their 'needs' as
they can become inspired by that bike and grow into it in a sense, or
at least sell it to guys like me at a drastically reduced price.

I've found over the years that the shop's most experienced and
knowledgable hands are the ones least inclined to tell you what to do,
as they realize that so much in cycling comes down to personal
preference. But successful shops are stocked not just with those guys,
but with some fledgling rookie bike nerds as well. The employees that
are still learning are the ones who are really _sure_ of things if you
know what I mean, acting out in their insecurity perhaps, and it can
get pretty tiresome when someone who knows less than you gives
patronizing attitude. I think that's what my girlfriend ran into that
day.

Robert


I don't know. Sure there are folks who may need a bit of guidance so
you can facilitate their cycling dreams and facilitate the flow of
their money into your account. To these people you may need to listen,
which would presumably involve asking a few questions to 'understand
why someone wants a particular bike and how they'd like to ride.' But
then there are people who feel they don't need any help figuring out
what they've already figured out, they have already pretty much
decided to swipe their card at your shop, and if you ask them to
explain themselves and what type of riding they plan to do after they
request to see and ride a specific bike, it's just going to be an
aggravation for them. Kind of like having to deal with the troll
before crossing the bridge. That's why my girlfriend took her card to
the other shop.

Robert

On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 04:03:58 -0000 in rec.bicycles.misc, Brian
Jenks wrote:

It's funny you mention having him banned. I've never been pushed to
that extreme, but a close friend of ours once managed a non-cycling
sporting goods retail store in town. He identified this client in our
store, many years ago, as having been thrown out of our friend's store
for stealing socks. We kept a close eye on him for a long time, but
never had any trouble. Now, after not being able to turn him away
(throwing him out would have been easy!) we find ourselves in an
opposite sour situation.

I've had situations where I've had to "fire" computer clients in
similar situations --- they insisted on ordering a machine and
software that did not suit either their needs or level of skill,
and then were either frustrated or totally lost, and always not
easily educated or trained.

I just told them that they needed to find another consultant,
because they were wasting their time and mine, as well as their
money. I actually had to use the block calling number feature of
my phone service to block their continued calls, since I had
other clients to take care of.

I think that if I had to deal with this customer, I would have
made sure he tried out one of the test bikes before I took any of
his money, to make sure he could actually ride. Or were his
balance and agility problems simply not visible?

John Everett wrote:
On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:49:39 GMT, I wrote:


I was co-leader of a Sierra Club outing in Kentucky last week.


snip

I posted my original article hoping I'd included enough details that
someone would recognize the situation. Note that I (twice) said there
had to be another side to the story. Thanks to Greg Priddy for
recognizing the LBS in question and Brian Jenks, proprietor of said
shop (HubBub) who fully documented his side of the transaction.

It's really too bad such a nice bike is sitting idle. I hope Brian and
his customer are able to come to some satisfactory solution.



So, are you the customer, or are you not? That has not been answered
clearly. There are still quite a few differences in the accounts.

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

... I don't like to think of myself as middle-aged,

Nobody does, Ryan, nobody does.

--
Mike Kruger
(unless the alternative is "elderly")

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 06:44:33 -0500, catzz66
wrote:

John Everett wrote:
On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:49:39 GMT, I wrote:


I was co-leader of a Sierra Club outing in Kentucky last week.


snip

I posted my original article hoping I'd included enough details that
someone would recognize the situation. Note that I (twice) said there
had to be another side to the story. Thanks to Greg Priddy for
recognizing the LBS in question and Brian Jenks, proprietor of said
shop (HubBub) who fully documented his side of the transaction.

It's really too bad such a nice bike is sitting idle. I hope Brian and
his customer are able to come to some satisfactory solution.



So, are you the customer, or are you not? That has not been answered
clearly. There are still quite a few differences in the accounts.

It was answered clearly in my original posting.


--
jeverett3ATsbcglobalDOTnet (John V. Everett)

John Everett wrote:


So, are you the customer, or are you not? That has not been answered
clearly. There are still quite a few differences in the accounts.


It was answered clearly in my original posting.



All you would have had to say was to reply "no, it wasn't me," but you
didn't expressly say it. No problem.